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Who is English?
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 Teddy Eagle  14 Jun 24 7.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Some will have noticed a topic being debated in the US politics thread that has no real connection to it. It concerns what entities someone to consider themselves English. Some believe it’s down to specific genetics, whilst I believe it’s culture. So having reached the point where my questions were not being answered because they are “in the wrong thread” I looked for a more appropriate one. Surprisingly, despite this matter underpinning many other of the attitudes regularly on display, and having looked back 2 years, that doesn’t appear to be anything. So here it is. You can catch up on the “debate” so far in the other thread. My last post, for which an answer was not provided was:- “Of course you can claim and own your heritage, just as the native Americans can theirs. What you can’t do is lay claim to it exclusively. Others can share it, if they want to and are entitled to. Just as other American citizens do in the USA. There’s nothing genetically unique about us that allows such an idea to be correct. No one stops you from believing whatever you like. Beliefs are free and personal. Only actions are subject to restrictions. Perhaps you, and those others who take a similar line, could answer 2 questions. One of my grandmothers was French. Does that mean that, in your eyes, I am not English? My wife has colleagues at the hospital who are married, have made their home here and have 2 children. He was born in Italy and remains an Italian citizen, entitled to stay here under the post Brexit arrangements. She was born in the Philippines, but has acquired British citizenship, whilst retaining her original too. So a dual national. The children were both born here, only have British passports, only have English friends, go to a local school, watch British TV, play rugby and cricket and support English teams. Are they English? If not, what do you think they are?” I am looking forward to knowing what people think are the answers. What is it that makes anyone Cornish? Whatever it is that your neighbours are proud of - well, it's like that.
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Elpis  In a pub 14 Jun 24 8.27pm |
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You are what you want to be until its proven that you're not Edited by Elpis (14 Jun 2024 8.28pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 8.32pm |
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Originally posted by becky
I think being English is a bit like being a 'villager' in a smallish country village - it takes at least 5 generations before you qualify. I would say I am English - we have traced the family back to 1518 with one Dutchman and one female of dubious parentage (believed to be the daughter of the Romanies that worked on the land)as the only 'blots on the landscape. I would say you were English too. What about me? Or the colleagues of my wife? I and they are much less than 5 generations and we all feel English. Being accepted as a local in a village is rather different I think.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 14 Jun 24 8.40pm |
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I feel like I'm either in the 19th Century or in my first year sociology tutorial.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 8.53pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
What is it that makes anyone Cornish? Whatever it is that your neighbours are proud of - well, it's like that. My Cornish neighbours are proud of their heritage and culture. They know they are legally English and that I am too. I won’t ever be Cornish, as there is no way that can be acquired, but I am already accepted as someone who respects, enjoys and treasures Cornish culture. I will be at the Sea Shanty Festival tomorrow, singing along with the Fisherman’s Friends and thousands of others. No barriers there. Should an “incomer” have children with Cornishman or woman and they grew up here then those children would certainly be accepted as being Cornish.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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 becky over the moon 14 Jun 24 9.04pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
My Cornish neighbours are proud of their heritage and culture. They know they are legally English and that I am too. I won’t ever be Cornish, as there is no way that can be acquired, but I am already accepted as someone who respects, enjoys and treasures Cornish culture. I will be at the Sea Shanty Festival tomorrow, singing along with the Fisherman’s Friends and thousands of others. No barriers there. Should an “incomer” have children with Cornishman or woman and they grew up here then those children would certainly be accepted as being Cornish. If you can't be Cornish as it can't be acquired, why should anyone be able to 'acquire' Englishness? Does this not also answer your question about your wife's colleagues? Neither of them are English, and although their children are born and raised here, it is of foreign parentage (given that they have both retained the nationality of their birth)
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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| orpingtoneagle Orpington 14 Jun 24 9.16pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
What is it that makes anyone Cornish? Whatever it is that your neighbours are proud of - well, it's like that. You will only ever be true Kernow after living there for many generations. Otherwise you will always be a grockle. My mother is Scottish my father is Welsh. I was born in Croydon so heaven knows what I am.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 10.02pm |
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Originally posted by becky
If you can't be Cornish as it can't be acquired, why should anyone be able to 'acquire' Englishness? Does this not also answer your question about your wife's colleagues? Neither of them are English, and although their children are born and raised here, it is of foreign parentage (given that they have both retained the nationality of their birth) Cornwall isn’t a nation or a country. It has a special category. Being Cornish has no real meaning, other than an emotional attachment. We are all English. You can acquire British citizenship and then you are free to regard yourself as English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish depending on where you live. My wife’s colleagues children are culturally and emotionally 100% English. Their parents are settled here and not just visiting. The husband has not acquired citizenship solely because there is no need to spend the money. If it was free, he would. His wife has because a British passport naturally followed from her visa route. To suggest the children aren’t English is both legally incorrect and impractical. They are British citizens and not citizens of any other country. They live in Cornwall, which is part of England. They are English and regarded as English by everyone in their circle. What about me and my French grandmother? Must I surrender my English identity too? Edited by Wisbech Eagle (14 Jun 2024 10.04pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 10.08pm |
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Originally posted by orpingtoneagle
You will only ever be true Kernow after living there for many generations. Otherwise you will always be a grockle. My mother is Scottish my father is Welsh. I was born in Croydon so heaven knows what I am. It’s only the visitors who are grockles! Those who live here are incomers. Or new Cornish. People who bring work and wealth when the tourists leave. Born in Croydon? You’re English.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Jun 24 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Cornwall isn’t a nation or a country. It has a special category. Being Cornish has no real meaning, other than an emotional attachment. We are all English. You can acquire British citizenship and then you are free to regard yourself as English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish depending on where you live. My wife’s colleagues children are culturally and emotionally 100% English. Their parents are settled here and not just visiting. The husband has not acquired citizenship solely because there is no need to spend the money. If it was free, he would. His wife has because a British passport naturally followed from her visa route. To suggest the children aren’t English is both legally incorrect and impractical. They are British citizens and not citizens of any other country. They live in Cornwall, which is part of England. They are English and regarded as English by everyone in their circle. What about me and my French grandmother? Must I surrender my English identity too? Edited by Wisbech Eagle (14 Jun 2024 10.04pm) The only special category Cornwall falls into is the astonishing self regard of the locals. It's no more special than anywhere else.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 10.29pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
The only special category Cornwall falls into is the astonishing self regard of the locals. It's no more special than anywhere else. Not actually true. Ignoring the long history which separated Cornwall from England, nowhere else is a “Duchy”. On top of that the people have been recognised as a national minority, giving them the same status as the Welsh, Scots and Irish. It might seem inconsequential to you, but to many here it’s an important step towards more autonomy.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Jun 24 10.33pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not actually true. Ignoring the long history which separated Cornwall from England, nowhere else is a “Duchy”. On top of that the people have been recognised as a national minority, giving them the same status as the Welsh, Scots and Irish. It might seem inconsequential to you, but to many here it’s an important step towards more autonomy. Duchy of Lancaster doesn't count then.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 10.38pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Duchy of Lancaster doesn't count then. Lancaster is a town. The county is Lancashire. There is no Duchy of Truro.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Jun 24 10.42pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Lancaster is a town. The county is Lancashire. There is no Duchy of Truro.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 Jun 24 10.47pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But not a County, which is what was being discussed.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 14 Jun 24 10.50pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
But not a County, which is what was being discussed. No it isn't. Nowhere else is a Duchy was the claim.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 14 Jun 24 11.11pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You can acquire British citizenship and then you are free to regard yourself as English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish depending on where you live. My wife’s colleagues children are culturally and emotionally 100% English. Their parents are settled here and not just visiting. The husband has not acquired citizenship solely because there is no need to spend the money. If it was free, he would. His wife has because a British passport naturally followed from her visa route. To suggest the children aren’t English is both legally incorrect and impractical. They are British citizens and not citizens of any other country. They live in Cornwall, which is part of England. They are English and regarded as English by everyone in their circle. What about me and my French grandmother? Must I surrender my English identity too? Edited by Wisbech Eagle (14 Jun 2024 10.04pm) Just seen this thread and I laughed out loud. Can you not see what a contradiction that is? If you can't become Cornish, then by the same logic you can't become English. I don't think the science of all this is really the defining point of this argument. If you are White and a bit pasty, it seems that the left and some of their minority friends want to condemn and vilify any sign of nationalism or any pride in or ownership of identity whatsoever. This is clearly prejudice in the purest form. You try to perpetuate this attitude with the ridiculous self hating nonsense you post on here. As for your French grandmother. You are part French. You have some French Heritage. Seems fairly simple. You are also mostly English, presumably. You are apparently not Cornish despite living in Cornwall, however I have never lived in Cornwall but have a lot of genetic heritage from that area. Fairly straight forward.
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