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Taking the knee (LOCKED)

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Jun 21 2.43pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 . . . or Tom & Barbara? Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Jun 21 2.43pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

. . . or Tom & Barbara?

Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Jun 21 2.45pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 . . . or Tom & Barbara? ....... or Maple in a 2021 remake. 'The Hood Life' Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 08 Jun 21 2.45pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

. . . or Tom & Barbara?

....... or Maple in a 2021 remake. 'The Hood Life'

Pro USA & Israel

Stirlingsays 08 Jun 21 2.56pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Cool, kitchen gardens are the future according to my daughter. And try not to turn the soil too much, it reduces the ability to hold water and also destroys the underground culture by allowing the elements to get at it. Maybe you'd like to join us here: [Link] An hour and a half from you. Kitchen gardens, blimey. Looks very impressive, but my fingers are so un-green that I'll be happy to just be the shovel guy. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

08 Jun 21 2.56pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Cool, kitchen gardens are the future according to my daughter. And try not to turn the soil too much, it reduces the ability to hold water and also destroys the underground culture by allowing the elements to get at it.

Maybe you'd like to join us here:

[Link]

An hour and a half from you.

Kitchen gardens, blimey.

Looks very impressive, but my fingers are so un-green that I'll be happy to just be the shovel guy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 2.57pm
Originally posted by DanH This is magnificent from Gareth Southgate. I honestly don't know how anyone could read this and still want to boo. [Link] Recommend reading the whole thing but this extract is so spot on: Quote Our players are role models. And, beyond the confines of the pitch, we must recognise the impact they can have on society. We must give them the confidence to stand up for their teammates and the things that matter to them as people. I have never believed that we should just stick to football. I know my voice carries weight, not because of who I am but because of the position that I hold. At home, I’m below the kids and the dogs in the pecking order but publicly I am the England men’s football team manager. I have a responsibility to the wider community to use my voice, and so do the players. It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate. Social media has been a key resource in giving our players a platform and has been a positive tool in so many ways. In fact, I feel like this generation of England players is closer to the supporters than they have been for decades. Despite the polarisation we see in society, these lads are on the same wavelength as you on many issues. That said, there are times when my parental instincts kick in. I can’t help it. After all, I’m old enough to be a father to most of my players! I see players scrolling on their phones straight after the final whistle and I think … Hmmm, is that a particularly good idea? Reading abusive comments on Twitter or Instagram is never going to help performance. There are genuine risks for our players online and I will always want to protect them, but I would never put rules on how or when they use their accounts while on England duty. I trust them and know they are mature enough to make their own decisions, to do what’s right for their mental health and to keep being a force for good as we strive for a better society. The last 18 months have put added pressure on everyone, I know. Venting that might have taken place while walking out of the stadium, or in the pub has been transferred online. I get that. However, there are things I will never understand. Why would you tag someone in on a conversation that is abusive? Why would you choose to insult somebody for something as ridiculous as the colour of their skin? Why? Unfortunately for those people that engage in that kind of behaviour, I have some bad news. You’re on the losing side. It’s clear to me that we are heading for a much more tolerant and understanding society, and I know our lads will be a big part of that. It might not feel like it at times, but it’s true. The awareness around inequality and the discussions on race have gone to a different level in the last 12 months alone. I am confident that young kids of today will grow up baffled by old attitudes and ways of thinking. For many of that younger generation, your notion of Englishness is quite different from my own. I understand that, too. I understand that on this island, we have a desire to protect our values and traditions — as we should — but that shouldn’t come at the expense of introspection and progress. Edited by DanH (08 Jun 2021 2.17pm) All sounds typically simple minded. He is implying that if you disprove of taking the knee or the media obsession with race issues, you somehow don't believe in a fair society for all or that you somehow approve of internet abuse. How ridiculous.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 2.57pm

Originally posted by DanH

This is magnificent from Gareth Southgate. I honestly don't know how anyone could read this and still want to boo.

[Link]

Recommend reading the whole thing but this extract is so spot on:

Quote

Our players are role models. And, beyond the confines of the pitch, we must recognise the impact they can have on society. We must give them the confidence to stand up for their teammates and the things that matter to them as people.

I have never believed that we should just stick to football.

I know my voice carries weight, not because of who I am but because of the position that I hold. At home, I’m below the kids and the dogs in the pecking order but publicly I am the England men’s football team manager. I have a responsibility to the wider community to use my voice, and so do the players.

It’s their duty to continue to interact with the public on matters such as equality, inclusivity and racial injustice, while using the power of their voices to help put debates on the table, raise awareness and educate.

Social media has been a key resource in giving our players a platform and has been a positive tool in so many ways. In fact, I feel like this generation of England players is closer to the supporters than they have been for decades. Despite the polarisation we see in society, these lads are on the same wavelength as you on many issues.

That said, there are times when my parental instincts kick in. I can’t help it. After all, I’m old enough to be a father to most of my players!

I see players scrolling on their phones straight after the final whistle and I think … Hmmm, is that a particularly good idea?

Reading abusive comments on Twitter or Instagram is never going to help performance.

There are genuine risks for our players online and I will always want to protect them, but I would never put rules on how or when they use their accounts while on England duty. I trust them and know they are mature enough to make their own decisions, to do what’s right for their mental health and to keep being a force for good as we strive for a better society.

The last 18 months have put added pressure on everyone, I know. Venting that might have taken place while walking out of the stadium, or in the pub has been transferred online. I get that. However, there are things I will never understand.

Why would you tag someone in on a conversation that is abusive?

Why would you choose to insult somebody for something as ridiculous as the colour of their skin?

Why?

Unfortunately for those people that engage in that kind of behaviour, I have some bad news. You’re on the losing side. It’s clear to me that we are heading for a much more tolerant and understanding society, and I know our lads will be a big part of that.

It might not feel like it at times, but it’s true. The awareness around inequality and the discussions on race have gone to a different level in the last 12 months alone.

I am confident that young kids of today will grow up baffled by old attitudes and ways of thinking.

For many of that younger generation, your notion of Englishness is quite different from my own. I understand that, too.

I understand that on this island, we have a desire to protect our values and traditions — as we should — but that shouldn’t come at the expense of introspection and progress.

Edited by DanH (08 Jun 2021 2.17pm)

All sounds typically simple minded.

He is implying that if you disprove of taking the knee or the media obsession with race issues, you somehow don't believe in a fair society for all or that you somehow approve of internet abuse.

How ridiculous.

Crazy_Eagle South London 08 Jun 21 2.58pm
Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus. R.I.P. DJ Hardline CPFC2010

Crazy_Eagle

South London 08 Jun 21 2.58pm

Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus.

R.I.P. DJ Hardline

CPFC2010

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 3.05pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus. Imagine bringing divisive politics into sport and them making it the biggest issue just before a major international competition.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 3.05pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus.

Imagine bringing divisive politics into sport and them making it the biggest issue just before a major international competition.

Stirlingsays 08 Jun 21 3.07pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus. We don't want your politics in sport. If players want their free speech respected then they can also respect the free speech of those who disagree with political demonstrations on the sports pitch. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

08 Jun 21 3.07pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Imagine booing a bunch of teenagers who are peacefully demonstrating for their rights for equality. Then cheering for them if they score. Jesus.

We don't want your politics in sport.

If players want their free speech respected then they can also respect the free speech of those who disagree with political demonstrations on the sports pitch.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Crazy_Eagle South London 08 Jun 21 3.09pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Imagine bringing divisive politics into sport and them making it the biggest issue just before a major international competition. Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players? R.I.P. DJ Hardline CPFC2010

Crazy_Eagle

South London 08 Jun 21 3.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Imagine bringing divisive politics into sport and them making it the biggest issue just before a major international competition.

Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players?

R.I.P. DJ Hardline

CPFC2010

Stirlingsays 08 Jun 21 3.15pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players? This is precisely why the Olympics bans this. When you introduce politics sports suffers. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

08 Jun 21 3.15pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players?

This is precisely why the Olympics bans this.

When you introduce politics sports suffers.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Crazy_Eagle South London 08 Jun 21 3.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays We don't want your politics in sport. If players want their free speech respected then they can also respect the free speech of those who disagree with political demonstrations on the sports pitch. You can't pick and choose. There always has, and always will be to some extent politics in sport. In fact the whole international tournament is made up of teams formed by political borders. However... the players themselves have said the reason they are doing it is not political, so why does it have to be made so by any of us fans. In relation to their own gesture. R.I.P. DJ Hardline CPFC2010

Crazy_Eagle

South London 08 Jun 21 3.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

We don't want your politics in sport.

If players want their free speech respected then they can also respect the free speech of those who disagree with political demonstrations on the sports pitch.

You can't pick and choose. There always has, and always will be to some extent politics in sport. In fact the whole international tournament is made up of teams formed by political borders.

However... the players themselves have said the reason they are doing it is not political, so why does it have to be made so by any of us fans. In relation to their own gesture.

R.I.P. DJ Hardline

CPFC2010

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 3.19pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players? What a daft question. The idiots who run football allowed this farce into the game and this is the result. Now members of the media are saying that people who boo need 're educating'. Apparently, it's not political. Is this for real? Not political? Everything is political. This is a bed that the weak minded fools who run football made, and now they will have to lie in it. It has only gone on this long because there have been no crowds. Everyone knows this. What are they even taking a knee for? All I hear is half baked, undefined mumbo jumbo. This whole affair has probably set race relations back years, but the real vitriol should be kept for the liberal elites and their media puppets who have orchestrated the whole thing.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 3.19pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Who's making it the biggest issue, you or the players?

What a daft question.

The idiots who run football allowed this farce into the game and this is the result.
Now members of the media are saying that people who boo need 're educating'.

Apparently, it's not political.

Is this for real? Not political? Everything is political.

This is a bed that the weak minded fools who run football made, and now they will have to lie in it. It has only gone on this long because there have been no crowds. Everyone knows this.
What are they even taking a knee for? All I hear is half baked, undefined mumbo jumbo. This whole affair has probably set race relations back years, but the real vitriol should be kept for the liberal elites and their media puppets who have orchestrated the whole thing.

Stirlingsays 08 Jun 21 3.26pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle You can't pick and choose. There always has, and always will be to some extent politics in sport. In fact the whole international tournament is made up of teams formed by political borders. However... the players themselves have said the reason they are doing it is not political, so why does it have to be made so by any of us fans. In relation to their own gesture. So nations are 'political borders'? What nonsense. You are simply playing word games, the idea that 'kneeling' for 'black lives matter' isn't political is perhaps your opinion. However, that opinion isn't agreed with by many. So you have an impasse. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

08 Jun 21 3.26pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

You can't pick and choose. There always has, and always will be to some extent politics in sport. In fact the whole international tournament is made up of teams formed by political borders.

However... the players themselves have said the reason they are doing it is not political, so why does it have to be made so by any of us fans. In relation to their own gesture.

So nations are 'political borders'? What nonsense.

You are simply playing word games, the idea that 'kneeling' for 'black lives matter' isn't political is perhaps your opinion. However, that opinion isn't agreed with by many.

So you have an impasse.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Crazy_Eagle South London 08 Jun 21 3.37pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So nations are 'political borders'? What nonsense. You are simply playing word games, the idea that 'kneeling' for 'black lives matter' isn't political is perhaps your opinion. However, that opinion isn't agreed with by many. So you have an impasse. Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders. I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count. I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them. R.I.P. DJ Hardline CPFC2010

Crazy_Eagle

South London 08 Jun 21 3.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So nations are 'political borders'? What nonsense.

You are simply playing word games, the idea that 'kneeling' for 'black lives matter' isn't political is perhaps your opinion. However, that opinion isn't agreed with by many.

So you have an impasse.

Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders.

I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count.

I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them.

R.I.P. DJ Hardline

CPFC2010

Wilesy01 Bristol 08 Jun 21 3.51pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What a daft question. The idiots who run football allowed this farce into the game and this is the result. Now members of the media are saying that people who boo need 're educating'. Apparently, it's not political. Is this for real? Not political? Everything is political. This is a bed that the weak minded fools who run football made, and now they will have to lie in it. It has only gone on this long because there have been no crowds. Everyone knows this. What are they even taking a knee for? All I hear is half baked, undefined mumbo jumbo. This whole affair has probably set race relations back years, but the real vitriol should be kept for the liberal elites and their media puppets who have orchestrated the whole thing. Maybe the players just don't like being racially abused and want to make a statement on it? Heck if I got vile messages after every day at work I'd be pretty fed up about it. Everything else in your post, and indeed such sentiments have also been expressed by others on this forum, are projections based on your own beliefs and assumptions. Do you really think Kyle Walker is leafing through the pages of Das Capital and Jude Bellingham is writing a dissertation on Gramski? Some people really need to chill out.

Wilesy01

Bristol 08 Jun 21 3.51pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a daft question.

The idiots who run football allowed this farce into the game and this is the result.
Now members of the media are saying that people who boo need 're educating'.

Apparently, it's not political.

Is this for real? Not political? Everything is political.

Maybe the players just don't like being racially abused and want to make a statement on it? Heck if I got vile messages after every day at work I'd be pretty fed up about it.

Everything else in your post, and indeed such sentiments have also been expressed by others on this forum, are projections based on your own beliefs and assumptions. Do you really think Kyle Walker is leafing through the pages of Das Capital and Jude Bellingham is writing a dissertation on Gramski?

Some people really need to chill out.

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 3.56pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders. I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count. I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them. Arguing about whether borders are political is just a red herring that you introduced. It is irrelevant. People do this when they have no proper argument. It doesn't matter why players are doing it. Their judgement is not the defining wisdom. If they don't want their own fans to boo them then the simple answer is to stop taking the knee. If they wish to persist with this expression, eagerly encouraged by the liberal elite lead media, then they must expect a similar expression of freedom known as booing. The idea that football supporters would just accept this intrusion into their leisure activity without a whimper is truly laughable. The puppet media do not represent real public attitudes. They are agenda driven entities whose employees say what they are told to say and encourage those with self interest to feel justified in parroting the mantra.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 3.56pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders.

I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count.

I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them.

Arguing about whether borders are political is just a red herring that you introduced. It is irrelevant.

People do this when they have no proper argument.

It doesn't matter why players are doing it. Their judgement is not the defining wisdom.
If they don't want their own fans to boo them then the simple answer is to stop taking the knee.
If they wish to persist with this expression, eagerly encouraged by the liberal elite lead media, then they must expect a similar expression of freedom known as booing.
The idea that football supporters would just accept this intrusion into their leisure activity without a whimper is truly laughable. The puppet media do not represent real public attitudes. They are agenda driven entities whose employees say what they are told to say and encourage those with self interest to feel justified in parroting the mantra.

Crazy_Eagle South London 08 Jun 21 3.59pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Arguing about whether borders are political is just a red herring that you introduced. It is irrelevant. People do this when they have no proper argument. It doesn't matter why players are doing it. Their judgement is not the defining wisdom. If they don't want their own fans to boo them then the simple answer is to stop taking the knee. If they wish to persist with this expression, eagerly encouraged by the liberal elite lead media, then they must expect a similar expression of freedom known as booing. The idea that football supporters would just accept this intrusion into their leisure activity without a whimper is truly laughable. The puppet media do not represent real public attitudes. They are agenda driven entities whose employees say what they are told to say and encourage those with self interest to feel justified in parroting the mantra. Therein lies the problem R.I.P. DJ Hardline CPFC2010

Crazy_Eagle

South London 08 Jun 21 3.59pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Arguing about whether borders are political is just a red herring that you introduced. It is irrelevant.

People do this when they have no proper argument.

It doesn't matter why players are doing it. Their judgement is not the defining wisdom.
If they don't want their own fans to boo them then the simple answer is to stop taking the knee.
If they wish to persist with this expression, eagerly encouraged by the liberal elite lead media, then they must expect a similar expression of freedom known as booing.
The idea that football supporters would just accept this intrusion into their leisure activity without a whimper is truly laughable. The puppet media do not represent real public attitudes. They are agenda driven entities whose employees say what they are told to say and encourage those with self interest to feel justified in parroting the mantra.

Therein lies the problem

R.I.P. DJ Hardline

CPFC2010

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 4.03pm
Originally posted by Wilesy01 Maybe the players just don't like being racially abused and want to make a statement on it? Heck if I got vile messages after every day at work I'd be pretty fed up about it. Everything else in your post, and indeed such sentiments have also been expressed by others on this forum, are projections based on your own beliefs and assumptions. Do you really think Kyle Walker is leafing through the pages of Das Capital and Jude Bellingham is writing a dissertation on Gramski? Some people really need to chill out. So taking the knee is now about on line racial abuse? How much abuse did players get online before Sky Sports started their insidious campaign? Does anyone ever remember anyone so much as mentioning online abuse? Sorry. Not buying that one. As far as Marxism is concerned. If people wished to avoid that accusation then they shouldn't have plastered BLM all over football grounds and shown support for BLM, a Marxist organisation. The word own goal has never been so appropriate.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 4.03pm

Originally posted by Wilesy01

Maybe the players just don't like being racially abused and want to make a statement on it? Heck if I got vile messages after every day at work I'd be pretty fed up about it.

Some people really need to chill out.

So taking the knee is now about on line racial abuse?
How much abuse did players get online before Sky Sports started their insidious campaign?
Does anyone ever remember anyone so much as mentioning online abuse?

Sorry. Not buying that one.
As far as Marxism is concerned. If people wished to avoid that accusation then they shouldn't have plastered BLM all over football grounds and shown support for BLM, a Marxist organisation.

The word own goal has never been so appropriate.

Hrolf The Ganger 08 Jun 21 4.06pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Therein lies the problem You are just talking in riddles. What matters is the reality of introducing politics into football.

Hrolf The Ganger

08 Jun 21 4.06pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Therein lies the problem

You are just talking in riddles.

What matters is the reality of introducing politics into football.

Stirlingsays 08 Jun 21 4.09pm
Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders. I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count. I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them. If everyone can express their position I don't really have any issues. People can attack and people can defend....as long as that's the case then it's healthy in a sense. I don't think this situation helps, but if this is what is wanted then I guess it'll continue. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jun 2021 4.11pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

08 Jun 21 4.09pm

Originally posted by Crazy_Eagle

Well, yes nations are formed from of political borders.

I fully understand there are varying opinions of what BLM is and whether it's political... but it's the opinion of those 11 players on the pitch, not mine, that count.

I'm just supporting that - and I'm just supporting them.

If everyone can express their position I don't really have any issues. People can attack and people can defend....as long as that's the case then it's healthy in a sense.

I don't think this situation helps, but if this is what is wanted then I guess it'll continue.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jun 2021 4.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 08 Jun 21 4.10pm
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer Hello Mapletree. Me again, that bloke from Midhurst. I moved here to be close to my daughter and family in my dotage, not because I don't like London. Was born in Wallington and worked many years in Croydon. My wife lived in Copers Cope Road and we were married in the church you often see from the training ground. I didn't expect to end up here, but life sometimes turns up the unexpected. Just wanted to say. Wallington is good Being near your children is good, especially for grandchildren. I always maintain our parents' generation was especially selfish and we had no help at all despite having three children under three. Beckenham is good Midhurst is good. There is a but. So much of the fear and loathing I see on this site (is it indicative of a broader feeling?) is because people don't see others that are 'different' very much. As such they fear them and can't empathise well. Maybe you do have young, black, working class friends. If so, you really should ask them how they feel. Getting under-estimated, checked on, feeling a lack of trust. It is very real to most minorities but especially to black people. And also, few people can differentiate between a Zambian and a Nigerian, a Jamaican and a Trinidadian. They are such different people but they all get lumped together.

Mapletree

Croydon 08 Jun 21 4.10pm

Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

Hello Mapletree. Me again, that bloke from Midhurst. I moved here to be close to my daughter and family in my dotage, not because I don't like London.

Was born in Wallington and worked many years in Croydon. My wife lived in Copers Cope Road and we were married in the church you often see from the training ground.

I didn't expect to end up here, but life sometimes turns up the unexpected.

Just wanted to say.

Wallington is good

Being near your children is good, especially for grandchildren. I always maintain our parents' generation was especially selfish and we had no help at all despite having three children under three.

Beckenham is good

Midhurst is good. There is a but. So much of the fear and loathing I see on this site (is it indicative of a broader feeling?) is because people don't see others that are 'different' very much.

As such they fear them and can't empathise well.

Maybe you do have young, black, working class friends. If so, you really should ask them how they feel. Getting under-estimated, checked on, feeling a lack of trust. It is very real to most minorities but especially to black people.

And also, few people can differentiate between a Zambian and a Nigerian, a Jamaican and a Trinidadian. They are such different people but they all get lumped together.

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