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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 12.18pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Do we have open boarders to the rest of the world. YES OR NO?

Hopefully not, as that is simply inviting unskilled people who could not replace our EU workers many who do a vital job.

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 12.23pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well actually obviously house prices would go down because there would be more supply and hence less demand.

Foreigners make up none of the Police so obviously and the children of immigrants make up only a small minority....So obviously the ratio of Police to public would improve automatically.

Foreign staff is at one in ten in the NHS so that would have an impact but we don't want to get rid of some skilled immigration anyway.....We just want to start the serious process of actually training our own now.....Not brain draining other countries.

The Councils shouldn't be employing non British unless they have to either.

OK I get it, the rise in house prices has nothing to do with the lack of housebuilding, legislation, ease of borrowing / low interest rates. It's all the immigrants fault. The NHS struggling has nothing to do with people living longer, the obesity crisis, cuts or mismanagement. It's all the immigrants fault. Less Police has nothing to with 20,000 less police due to cuts. It's all the immigrants fault

 


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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 12.39pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

OK I get it, the rise in house prices has nothing to do with the lack of housebuilding, legislation, ease of borrowing / low interest rates. It's all the immigrants fault. The NHS struggling has nothing to do with people living longer, the obesity crisis, cuts or mismanagement. It's all the immigrants fault. Less Police has nothing to with 20,000 less police due to cuts. It's all the immigrants fault

Have you got selective hearing (reading)

It's not the immigrants fault it the policies of the politicians.

Why invite minions when we arnt building enough houses

Why isnt the NHS training our own nurses!!

20000 less police, I agree it's wrong with a rising population.

Our government has taken the cheap lazy option to import cheap labour to get growth.

I repeat not the immigrants fault.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 18 12.39pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well actually obviously house prices would go down because there would be more supply and hence less demand.

Foreigners make up none of the Police so obviously and the children of immigrants make up only a small minority....So obviously the ratio of Police to public would improve automatically.

Foreign staff is at one in ten in the NHS so that would have an impact but we don't want to get rid of some skilled immigration anyway.....We just want to start the serious process of actually training our own now.....Not brain draining other countries.

The Councils shouldn't be employing non British unless they have to either.

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

 


One more point

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.11pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

Who is this person and what is actually your point, you are obviously from the Matt Hancock school of not having any connection as a tory of what these people do.

They do not claim benefits.

They work hard mostly doing jobs no Uk person would even consider, as it is beneath them.

I have been in this building 5 years and have never seen one British worker, not one.

Universal Credit?

Benefits calculator?

What is the Romanian for WTF ?


 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 1.22pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Who is this person and what is actually your point, you are obviously from the Matt Hancock school of not having any connection as a tory of what these people do.

They do not claim benefits.

They work hard mostly doing jobs no Uk person would even consider, as it is beneath them.

I have been in this building 5 years and have never seen one British worker, not one.

Universal Credit?

Benefits calculator?

What is the Romanian for WTF ?


Everyone is voicing their point and you just reject everything.
Are you completely satisfied with how our country is? Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 1.26pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I often wondered why politicians say that low paid foreign workers actually benefit the country so recently I used a benefits calculator to get an idea of cost. Of course these are assumptions and you can argue whether my assumptions are correct but I still think you will arrive at a similar conclusion that it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

I used a benefits calculator from Citizens Advice these were my assumptions:

I am a young married man with a wife who doesn't work because she looks after our 2 children 1 of which is under 5.

I earn the minimum wage and work a 35 hour week so my salary is 14-15k.

I privately rent a 3 bedroom house in London which costs me £500 per week.

After my personal tax allowance I pay £300 pa income tax plus a few hundred for National Insurance

I pay £1500 pa council tax bottom line I contribute £2-3k pa to the Treasury.

According to the calculator I am entitled to Universal Credit benefits of:

£20k pa

In other words I cost the taxpayer net 18k pa and that doesn't include the 4k I maybe entitled to for child care although she is currently looking after them.

The cost does not include education, healthcare and other public services which presumably I and my family would use.

Now you may argue the salary is too low or the rent too high, feel free to do your own calculations, but I think it is clear it costs the taxpayer a lot of money.

Now if it is for a care worker in the NHS that may well be worth it but if Starbucks wants staff ?

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.33pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Everyone is voicing their point and you just reject everything.
Are you completely satisfied with how our country is? Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?

'Do you think the government has handled our country responsibly?'

D the tories ? Responsible?

In fairness D I have been thinking, based on the litany of failed projects which are just normal now, that no government is capable of delivering any project on time and in budget.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 16 Oct 18 1.36pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

 


One more point

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 16 Oct 18 1.40pm Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

How does replacing the foreign worker with a British worker resolve that problem?

If you times it by 2 million foreign workers and don't increase infrastructure or services you have a problem.

It's not the one worker which you simpistically describe. It's scale of economy.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 16 Oct 18 1.51pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

Indeed we simply must pay people a proper living wage, at least.

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 16 Oct 18 2.01pm

Originally posted by Badger11

The British worker is already here and we have a responsibility to them first.

We should be pushing companies to pay workers better salaries and so decrease the burden on the taxpayer. One way of doing that is to reduce the influx of cheap foreign labour thereby forcing employers to raise wages. Now if companies really cannot find British workers then fine import the labour but the companies should pay them a decent wage and not rely on the taxpayer.

As for vital public service roles rather than pay low wages and subside them with benefits how about we just pay better wages.

I agree on most of that because in effect the debate is, as it should be, moving away from immigration.

Really if it's becoming an economic debate we should look at purely those that contribute to the economy and those that don't whoever ever they may be.

I'd hazard a guess that if you separated those that are net contributors and net takers, in the latter category how many are non UK, if that number was not even 5% or at the most 10%, how much strong is the immigration argument then?

 


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