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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  25 Apr 19 1.35pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Whether my Latin is correct or not, it was a petty response to my post which didn’t at all address the contents and instead ridiculed an opinion shared months ago in a completely different thread - quite why you’ve chosen to defend that I don’t know. Well, I don't know about other thread discussions and I'm only referring to these two posts. So I'm not making a commentary on anything outside that range. Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I have claimed no superiority, and I would’ve thought it’s quite self-explanatory the parts of the post I was taking issue with; No, you haven't, but you framed what he said as a claim for superiority. Indeed, few on the right are going to agree with the left on the whole 'superiority' question anyway. It's a major point of difference whereas you referred to it as if it's an accepted point. Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
“If you stopped being such w***ers, just for a few moments, you might start winning people over a little. But you won’t. The thrill of being anti along with the terrible addiction to virtue signalling means you will carry on with being such terrible s*** c***s and fail to win over anybody with half a brain” Aim the ‘you’ at Brexiteers, and everyone’s foaming at the mouth in outrage - that’s the hypocrisy. It’s really not a complicated point. Hypocrisy is the professing of attitudes or virtues that one, in practice, does not hold or demonstrate for themselves. I don't think that is what is being done there.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 25 Apr 19 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
“If you stopped being such w***ers, just for a few moments, you might start winning people over a little. But you won’t. The thrill of being anti along with the terrible addiction to virtue signalling means you will carry on with being such terrible s*** c***s and fail to win over anybody with half a brain” Aim the ‘you’ at Brexiteers, and everyone’s foaming at the mouth in outrage - that’s the hypocrisy. It’s really not a complicated point. To a certain degree we are all hypocrites of the highest order but lets actually look at Brexit. Parliament voted by a huge majority to give us a referendum. We had it. And Leave won with 52%. And ever since then the 52% have had all sorts of abuse hurled at them by people who disagreed with how they chose, of their own free will, to cast their votes on that day. Along with all sorts of attempts to render the result on that day either null & void or somehow engineer another vote, without even the same question being asked, with the hope that it is ignored. Now the abuse itself does not bother me. Some of it is even probably justified. But what makes Remoaners w***ers of the highest order is how they want that vote ignored. That I find not only intolerable but essentially people deeming their votes to have more value than mine. Leave won. In an democratic process in which every vote counted, was equally weighted, the required margin was met for us to leave the EU. Seriously, what does that make anybody who wants that ignored? Disagree with me, that I have no issue but to try and usurp my vote, along with over 17 million others, and there I have some serious problems with your personal ethos. Makes you worthy of my contempt and certainly no respect is due. As I have said a dozen times, then once we leave and you want to campaign for us to rejoin, that is an admirable stance to take. Legimate and deserving of every protection available. But to want my vote torn up? No. Makes you a s***-c***. No otherway of looking at it.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 25 Apr 19 1.54pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I disagree. Just look at the reality of the situation. Technology is the one crucial spanner in the works that trumps political will and anything else for that matter, now the wheels are fully in motion. Plus there is no significant political will to reverse it anyway. So the point still stands. Also we've done this before, and you always use the same, limiting example. An anomaly does not prove a point. Even Japan is realising it has to open up to survive – it's slowly creeping in there. Let's say they manage to somehow hold it off for another 20 years, which in my view is near impossible, it doesn't matter. As Matov puts it, the genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back. For me, that's just an observable fact. Globalisation leads to increasing segregation and balkanization for the majority. You may wish what has happened to London for yourself but the reality is most don't. The map of Brexit was a pretty strong indication of that. It's not only Japan, it's large parts of East Asia like China and South Korea, which just happen to be the top of the IQ map. Indeed, what you are saying on globalisation only really holds true for Europe and the Anglosphere. People have been predicating the demise of Japan since the sixties. Not only is its standard of living higher than us along with its GDP but it retains its social cohesion and heavily rejects what you seem to suggest is inevitable. AI automation is due to take increasing numbers of blue and white collar jobs out of any requirement and so your view that millions of foreigners are required to live there seems to be a legacy one. They have done very well up to now. Indeed, the recent changes you refer to don't allow citizenship at all......I don't think that's a barrier they will allow crossing. They can see what would be lost....You call them racist from here. Indeed if they did what the west have they would be getting victimization culture from minorities, which in turn create whole industries. They simply don't want what the ideological mainly white left and the profit hungry rich right want.....and they don't need my advice because they are smart enough to know what to avoid.
Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Apr 2019 3.25pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 25 Apr 19 2.05pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
To a certain degree we are all hypocrites of the highest order but lets actually look at Brexit. Parliament voted by a huge majority to give us a referendum. We had it. And Leave won with 52%. And ever since then the 52% have had all sorts of abuse hurled at them by people who disagreed with how they chose, of their own free will, to cast their votes on that day. Along with all sorts of attempts to render the result on that day either null & void or somehow engineer another vote, without even the same question being asked, with the hope that it is ignored. Now the abuse itself does not bother me. Some of it is even probably justified. But what makes Remoaners w***ers of the highest order is how they want that vote ignored. That I find not only intolerable but essentially people deeming their votes to have more value than mine. Leave won. In an democratic process in which every vote counted, was equally weighted, the required margin was met for us to leave the EU. Seriously, what does that make anybody who wants that ignored? Disagree with me, that I have no issue but to try and usurp my vote, along with over 17 million others, and there I have some serious problems with your personal ethos. Makes you worthy of my contempt and certainly no respect is due. As I have said a dozen times, then once we leave and you want to campaign for us to rejoin, that is an admirable stance to take. Legimate and deserving of every protection available. But to want my vote torn up? No. Makes you a s***-c***. No otherway of looking at it. I do agree we’re all hypocrites to some extent, but I don’t think that means it should be left unchecked at all times. To me, anyone who justifies or defends their politics with phrases along the lines of ‘anyone with half a brain can see..’ or ‘the sensible among us know...’ is deluded - there are intelligent and sensible people on both sides of the political spectrum, and differences in opinion typically stem for personal interpretations of what the cause Having said that, your explanation above shows the post was more about morals than politics - I don’t necessarily agree with your summation, but hypocrisy was an incorrect accusation in this case, as you are consistent in your principles, so for that I apologise.
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Teddy Eagle  25 Apr 19 2.14pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
In fairness that is extremely subjective. I also share that viewpoint – right now I'd rather be somewhere that stimulates and satiates my brain than going back in time to where the most exciting thing in my life would be seeing the same hedge (or insert literally anything here) every day in bland, boring and suffocating suburban hell. Staring at a white wall and waiting to die would probably be preferable. Yes it is entirely subjective and in my case probably age related. I shared your view for decades and couldn’t imagine living anywhere else but I got tired of the stress and expense of living in London.
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Park Road  25 Apr 19 2.44pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Yes it is entirely subjective and in my case probably age related. I shared your view for decades and couldn’t imagine living anywhere else but I got tired of the stress and expense of living in London. Ditto!
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| Teddy Eagle 25 Apr 19 3.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
An enjoyment of London is very much dependent upon where you live within it and income. In certain circumstances it can be the best of places and in others the worst. You’re right of course but whenever I’ve been back it’s only reinforced my decision to leave. It was easier as my wife isn’t a Londoner and 25 years was enough for her.
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 SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 25 Apr 19 3.59pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Globalisation leads to increasing segregation and balkanization for the majority. You may wish what has happened to London for yourself but the reality is most don't. The map of Brexit was a pretty strong indication of that. It's not only Japan, it's large parts of East Asia like China and South Korea, which just happen to be the top of the IQ map. Indeed, what you are saying on globalisation only really holds true for Europe and the Anglosphere. People have been predicating the demise of Japan since the sixties. Not only is its standard of living higher than us along with its GDP but it retains its social cohesion and heavily rejects what you seem to suggest is inevitable. AI automation is due to take increasing numbers of blue and white collar jobs out of any requirement and so your view that millions of foreigners are required to live there seems to be a legacy one. They have done very well up to now. Indeed, the recent changes you refer to don't allow citizenship at all......I don't think that's a barrier they will allow crossing. They can see what would be lost....You call them racist from here. Indeed if they did what the west have they would be getting victimization culture from minorities, which in turn create whole industries. They simply don't want what the ideological mainly white left and the profit hungry rich right want.....and they don't need my advice because they are smart enough to know what to avoid.
Things will become even more homogenised than they already are, corporations will become massive global entities that are no longer defined by borders/nationality and will have ever increasing amounts of control. Cultures and nations will continue to become diluted. There will of course always be a few that resist, but as long as the majority and the powerful are all going one way it is simply a question of when not if for everyone else. As for the east/west point, valid, but in my mind that could be one outcome. Literally 'The West' and 'The East' once everything's reached its zenith. It's also not just about immigration. It's about perception, sense of place, isolationism – these things being warped and changed due to technology and singularity of approach (starting with advertising, branding, media, shaped behaviour etc.) being the one thing that heavily dilutes the idea of borders, nations. Globalisation is inevitable so long as massive social corporations continue to grow and have ever increasing influence over the 95% and the people who govern them (95% of people are morons). I suppose also it's also a matter of whether what is then lost is a significant negative to the alternative. I have no answer to that as it is too subjective and requires more thought but emotion and nostalgia is not always a valid reason. Every generation always seems to say 'it was better in my day'. I always think it's a lazy statement.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 25 Apr 19 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
An enjoyment of London is very much dependent upon where you live within it and income. In certain circumstances it can be the best of places and in others the worst. I think this could apply to anywhere in the world, really. Perhaps not in Hull, Blackpool, Doncaster or Blackburn. But admittedly it is more acutely relevant in certain locations.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 25 Apr 19 4.19pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
I don't wish anything, really, I just can't see it going any other way. The AI point is valid, but also in my view simply accelerates the process rather than pushes it in the other direction. It simply increases the reliance on state aid and therefore more or less removes any possibility of agency to the mass population, if handled well. Power is then free to do as it pleases. Why waste money on diversifying capitalism to suit different cultures when you can push towards one? Optimised, simplified, more profitable. Things will become even more homogenised than they already are, corporations will become massive global entities that are no longer defined by borders/nationality and will have ever increasing amounts of control. Cultures and nations will continue to become diluted. There will of course always be a few that resist, but as long as the majority and the powerful are all going one way it is simply a question of when not if for everyone else. As for the east/west point, valid, but in my mind that could be one outcome. Literally 'The West' and 'The East' once everything's reached its zenith. It's also not just about immigration. It's about perception, sense of place, isolationism – these things being warped and changed due to technology and singularity of approach (starting with advertising, branding, media, shaped behaviour etc.) being the one thing that heavily dilutes the idea of borders, nations. Globalisation is inevitable so long as massive social corporations continue to grow and have ever increasing influence over the 95% and the people who govern them (95% of people are morons). I suppose also it's also a matter of whether what is then lost is a significant negative to the alternative. I have no answer to that as it is too subjective and requires more thought but emotion and nostalgia is not always a valid reason. Every generation always seems to say 'it was better in my day'. I always think it's a lazy statement. It's quite nice to see posters like yourself and Danns putting the non right wing perspectives sensibly. There's also a lot of sense in your post of course. I'll have to think about some of the stuff in your post.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 25 Apr 19 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's quite nice to see posters like yourself and Danns putting the non right wing perspectives sensibly. There's also a lot of sense in your post of course. I'll have to think about some of the stuff in your post. We've gone massively off topic here, but this is worth a read, even if it is a little pessimistic and of course highly speculative. Most of it is 'well of course' stuff, especially in terms of motivation and outcome but it's the detail and specifics of those motivations from the horses mouth(s) that really grabs the attention.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| blackheatheagle Beckenham 25 Apr 19 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I was listening to Raheem Kassam on a stream last night and I must admit he made a strong argument for voting Brexit party.....and he's pro Robinson. For some reason i have read Raheem Kassam as Raheem Sterling and paralyzed for a while
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| Stirlingsays 25 Apr 19 4.35pm |
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Originally posted by blackheatheagle
For some reason i have read Raheem Kassam as Raheem Sterling and paralyzed for a while It's certainly true that we have never seen them in the same place at the same time.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 25 Apr 19 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
We've gone massively off topic here, but this is worth a read, even if it is a little pessimistic and of course highly speculative. Most of it is 'well of course' stuff, especially in terms of motivation and outcome but it's the detail and specifics of those motivations from the horses mouth(s) that really grabs the attention. Interesting article, yep a little pessimistic and highly speculative, which doesn't mean it's wrong of course but that's the nature of certain longer term predictions......though I can't disagree on the high probability of the 'event' happening....when and not if (hopefully a few lifetimes away when we can...hopefully combat it more). I think his 'team human' concept is a non starter as it's far too collective a mindset to ever work. Only approaches that work with human nature succeed....in my view. However, that doesn't mean that particular groups don't operate on 'human rights' principles.....but 'team human'? Perhaps in the very long term when genetic technology has streamlined the human being free from defects, diseases and enabled improvements in mental and physical abilities and so on.....In other words perhaps 'team human' can only work once you actually change what 'human nature' is.......but hey, that's eugenics....which apparently makes someone a Nazi.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Teddy Eagle 25 Apr 19 6.13pm |
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| dannyboy1978 25 Apr 19 6.35pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
That's great for democracy. If people want him they will vote for him simple. And if they want him previous Mp's have failed in what the people want.
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| Maine Eagle USA 25 Apr 19 7.08pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
And I quote: It is expected he will be joined at the Manchester event by the For Britain leader, Anne Marie Waters, who has described Islam as “evil” and promised to ban the burqa if elected. Quite a pair.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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Pussay Patrol  25 Apr 19 7.12pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
why is he not allowed to join UKIP then?
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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