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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 28 Apr 19 3.09pm |
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Originally posted by Park Road
You are not obliged to read, or comment, on my replies. I won't be offended. It makes laugh when people like you are always trying to explain yourselves. Edited by Park Road (28 Apr 2019 12.21pm) That's OK then because I don't care about your opinion either. I am glad that we can end in agreement.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 28 Apr 19 3.18pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Have we left yet? Soon, Real soon.........
Pro USA & Israel |
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Park Road  28 Apr 19 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That's OK then because I don't care about your opinion either. I am glad that we can end in agreement.
What I have highlighted in your response (in bold)is your narcissistic childish whimsical and obsessive way of getting even. Let me make myself clear we have never been in agreement... and nothing has ended Edited by Park Road (28 Apr 2019 3.27pm)
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 Hrolf The Ganger 28 Apr 19 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I didn't say I had it tough. Having witnessed real poverty elsewhere in the world by people who still manage to stay happy I, and just about everyone else in the UK, have nothing to complain about. I was responding to the suggestion I was middle class and "entitled" when my background is far from that. Perhaps I am self righteous but that's grown over the years with my confidence, which was sadly lacking in my youth. I am confident of my opinions and not intimidated by others, no matter if I am in a minority of one. When I see bs I say so. If it makes anyone stop and think then I am happy. I don't expect to change your mind either. As my "attitude" is to resist any drift towards a divided, untruthful, selfish, uncaring society, which takes us backwards, I see any determination to resist it something which itself needs to be fiercely resisted, by reason and well structured argument. UK politics has gradually evolved to ensure a fairer more inclusive society and I for one am determined that progress will be continued. The kind of politics promoted by the likes of Farage, Rees Mogg, Cash et al is an affront to decency and to me. I see it in the USA with Trump and I don't want it established here. Fortunately I see a very much smaller group of people here who are in the bubble of believing in Trump like solutions than in the USA. There is a small hard core, of which you are one, and a current softer outer circle because of Brexit, who will drift away to the centre again once this is all over. It won't be us as individuals who will decide. It will be at the ballot box. I will be doing my best never fear. But not the Referendum on Brexit because that is different. I am not hardcore anything political. I just oppose people who promote their deluded nonsense that is ruining out Western society.
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| dannyboy1978 28 Apr 19 5.17pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
But not the Referendum on Brexit because that is different. I am not hardcore anything political. I just oppose people who promote their deluded nonsense that is ruining out Western society. What if they are factual but inconvenient?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Apr 19 7.02pm |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
What if they are factual but inconvenient? For example?
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| Invalid user 2019 28 Apr 19 9.16pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Have we left yet? 5 or 6 more holidays and a couple of extensions and they might remember that they're supposed to be sorting it.
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| dannyboy1978 28 Apr 19 9.20pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
For example?
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| Invalid user 2019 28 Apr 19 9.22pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Seems currently the whole debate is revolving round technicalities like "it was an advisory referendum" and "people where lied to". Fair points but for me they aren't strong enough to reverse the result of the referendum. As a nation that's very slowly moving towards leaving the EU I think that people's vote and the EU really have to offer something substantial to reverse the decision to a leave. There needs to be a carrot. Continually beating the UK with a stick doesn't change people's feelings towards the EU. If we leave or agree a decent deal, there's always the option to revisit the decision years down the line, so the panic stations attitude by some is OTT. This dream of pulling the plug on the decision of the public, or having another vote, leaves so many people disenfranchised that it's just not viable in my view. Then again politicians do whatever is convenience for themselves and their interests so god only knows what the eventual outcome will be.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Apr 19 9.33pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
But not the Referendum on Brexit because that is different. I am not hardcore anything political. I just oppose people who promote their deluded nonsense that is ruining out Western society. As I have explained elsewhere no referendum has any legal force in the UK. It's relevance depends solely on the commitments made to respect it. Commitments which can be withdrawn in the light of events. Therefore the only ballot box which matters is that we use when choosing who represents us. Far from "ruining Western society" it's being protected in the mother of parliaments. In re-enforcing the principal that parliament is sovereign we are protecting ourselves from the kind of autocracy that is emerging elsewhere. This is a battle which is very important and absolutely must be won. I give due credit to those brave MPs who are standing up to the pressure of the whips and the system and doing what they believe is right for us.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Invalid user 2019 28 Apr 19 9.44pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I have explained elsewhere no referendum has any legal force in the UK. It's relevance depends solely on the commitments made to respect it. Commitments which can be withdrawn in the light of events. Therefore the only ballot box which matters is that we use when choosing who represents us. Far from "ruining Western society" it's being protected in the mother of parliaments. In re-enforcing the principal that parliament is sovereign we are protecting ourselves from the kind of autocracy that is emerging elsewhere. This is a battle which is very important and absolutely must be won. I give due credit to those brave MPs who are standing up to the pressure of the whips and the system and doing what they believe is right for us. You're right in the sense that is was advisory, but take an eventuality where the result was more aligned with your preference and remain had won. Would you still be saying that the result means nothing? A monumental number of people voted one way or the other, so that certainly means something as to the value that the general public attributed to it. I don't disagree that voting in or out a party can result in significant change too, but when parties do not uphold their end of the bargain to begin with and in fact hold very opaque views on an issue, what exactly does that vote count for or achieve either?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Apr 19 9.49pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't believe anything this guy says anymore. He even speaks up for those that lie and shape narratives so essentially it's people like him who are the problem. I presume that is directed at me! Let me assure you that it isn't me that's the problem. It's people like you. The last thing our country needs is populism which is where you would take us, whether intended or not. I fully realise that in this forum I am outnumbered by those who take your line. I also realise that in today's climate many people are sick and tired of the Brexit fiasco and want to see it over, almost at any price. However, when it is over and things stabilise, I sense that UK politics will never be the same. The old party system is busted and no longer fit for purpose. There will always be a hard core on both the left and the right but the vast majority are just like me. In the middle! It may take some years but I am quite sure that post Brexit, however it goes, our future won't be in the hands of people like either Farage or Corbyn but in the hands of sensible middle ground pragmatists. It might be boring and predictable but I look forward to it. A bit like I enjoy some mid table security for Palace with the odd cup final thrown in for excitement.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Apr 19 10.00pm |
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Originally posted by dollardays
You're right in the sense that is was advisory, but take an eventuality where the result was more aligned with your preference and remain had won. Would you still be saying that the result means nothing? A monumental number of people voted one way or the other, so that certainly means something as to the value that the general public attributed to it. I don't disagree that voting in or out a party can result in significant change too, but when parties do not uphold their end of the bargain to begin with and in fact hold very opaque views on an issue, what exactly does that vote count for or achieve either? If Remain had won we would have faced an entirely different scenario. Farage had already said that the battle would continue. It might have quietened down for a while but surely would not have gone away. Voting to Leave produced unforeseen and unique problems. These were compounded by a minority Parliament dependant on the Unionists. It's a mess no-one wanted and for which no-one can really be blamed. All took decisions they believed to be in our best interests. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Now we need to try to find a path out which avoids too much further division.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Apr 19 10.21pm |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
When we have protected groups in society, this kind of thing will happen. It's an old old trick to influence minds and stifle debate.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Apr 19 11.22pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
When we have protected groups in society, this kind of thing will happen. It's an old old trick to influence minds and stifle debate. I just watched the video and reach very different conclusions. I think this is our Parliamentary committee system at it's best, exposing the failings of a Police force and holding them to account. That people sometimes fail is an inevitability. There is a right way to deal with those failures and there is a wrong way. The right way is shown in the video, quietly and effectively. The wrong way is to try to make political capital out of it and winding up the tensions, thus making things worse and not better. I see no influence at all from immigrant communities trying to silence investigations and would be the first to object if I did. I do though see attempts from some, Robinson being one, to exploit the situation in pursuit of a bigger agenda.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Mapletree Croydon 29 Apr 19 12.24am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
When we have protected groups in society, this kind of thing will happen. It's an old old trick to influence minds and stifle debate. Given exactly that point, why is Yaxley-Lennon lauded as a spokesperson. Surely there is someone that is not a criminal available to carry the torch. Perhaps points made would then have some credibility.
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Teddy Eagle  29 Apr 19 12.49am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Given exactly that point, why is Yaxley-Lennon lauded as a spokesperson. Surely there is someone that is not a criminal available to carry the torch. Perhaps points made would then have some credibility. But anyone voicing the same concerns would immediately be dismissed as a racist as well.
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Pussay Patrol  29 Apr 19 5.59am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Given exactly that point, why is Yaxley-Lennon lauded as a spokesperson. Surely there is someone that is not a criminal available to carry the torch. Perhaps points made would then have some credibility. Yes, he comes across as a quite simple person and only seems to attract the same sort of like minded EDL types. Edited by Pussay Patrol (29 Apr 2019 6.00am) Edited by Pussay Patrol (29 Apr 2019 6.03am)
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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