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Hrolf The Ganger 19 Apr 17 9.59pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 See, i would say the attitude you speak of is not confined to one political demographic. It has been talked about, enthused, mass marketed by many. Many who profit from it. Agreed, but you always hear the same types extolling it's virtues despite the obvious disadvantage to the type of people they claim to represent. Namely white working class. Needless to say, you also hear it's praises being sung by the minorities it promotes. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (19 Apr 2017 10.01pm)

Hrolf The Ganger

19 Apr 17 9.59pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

See, i would say the attitude you speak of is not confined to one political demographic. It has been talked about, enthused, mass marketed by many. Many who profit from it.

Agreed, but you always hear the same types extolling it's virtues despite the obvious disadvantage to the type of people they claim to represent. Namely white working class. Needless to say, you also hear it's praises being sung by the minorities it promotes.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (19 Apr 2017 10.01pm)

DANGERCLOSE London 19 Apr 17 10.24pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Now I know you are chatting s***. What school is this? Edited by nickgusset (19 Apr 2017 8.53pm) I won't name the school but it's in Hayes and Harlington.

DANGERCLOSE

London 19 Apr 17 10.24pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Now I know you are chatting s***.

What school is this?

Edited by nickgusset (19 Apr 2017 8.53pm)

I won't name the school but it's in Hayes and Harlington.

Stirlingsays 19 Apr 17 10.36pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 You don't get it, do you? PC-ness, if it is, is not the preserve of the left. it has been with us for over 40 years now and for most of that time the powers that be have been of a right persuasion whether in Parliament of in the running the mass media (the majority of). I will agree to a certain extent that PC culture has also infected the mainstream right....May for example is behind the disastrous 'hate speech' laws which have been abused, in my view, since their enactment. But this would be saying that I agree with the mainstream Tory leadership.....and that's a joke....Unlike the Labour membership the Tory grass roots haven't got total say over their leader...A large number of the grass roots view May as a 'wet'...I still remember that 'nasty party' bollocks...She isn't terrible but there is better. I wanted Davies.....I wouldn't mind Fox....That's my Tory party....not May. But I've been in teaching for years...anyone telling me that the left aren't the main drivers behind PC culture is just lying or engaging is word play deflection. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Apr 2017 10.41pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Apr 17 10.36pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

You don't get it, do you? PC-ness, if it is, is not the preserve of the left. it has been with us for over 40 years now and for most of that time the powers that be have been of a right persuasion whether in Parliament of in the running the mass media (the majority of).

I will agree to a certain extent that PC culture has also infected the mainstream right....May for example is behind the disastrous 'hate speech' laws which have been abused, in my view, since their enactment.

But this would be saying that I agree with the mainstream Tory leadership.....and that's a joke....Unlike the Labour membership the Tory grass roots haven't got total say over their leader...A large number of the grass roots view May as a 'wet'...I still remember that 'nasty party' bollocks...She isn't terrible but there is better. I wanted Davies.....I wouldn't mind Fox....That's my Tory party....not May.

But I've been in teaching for years...anyone telling me that the left aren't the main drivers behind PC culture is just lying or engaging is word play deflection.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Apr 2017 10.41pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 19 Apr 17 10.54pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's an policy born from a certain type of attitude. The sort of attitude held these days by what is described as the liberal left. It protects the interests of corporations and forces the majority to be denied tradition in favour of recently arrived minorities. It is a non violent form of subjection to maintain the appearance of willing acceptance. Yep, and it's nasty too.....Anyone speaking out offering an alternative view, even if they are joking, they are perused and damaged in anyway the activists can do it. I agree the nutters in the tea party tried this but they haven't got their claws into the institutions like the left have.....Their influence...thank god...never extended there. But the ideological thought police...they have infected pretty much every institution and the corporations are terrified of them. That scientist was one very public example...You have Toronto professor Jordan Peterson and the 'pronoun' nonsense in Canada and of course you have Milo...being shut down by protestors with added violence at Berkeley and after that being witch hunted over silly comments about underage sex.....Oh and apparently it's ok to sucker punch the far right on the street with many of them. Opinions that don't threaten violence are allowed.....and people shouldn't feck around with what 'violence' means either....like the lawyers did to the word 'assault'. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Apr 2017 10.57pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Apr 17 10.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It's an policy born from a certain type of attitude. The sort of attitude held these days by what is described as the liberal left. It protects the interests of corporations and forces the majority to be denied tradition in favour of recently arrived minorities. It is a non violent form of subjection to maintain the appearance of willing acceptance.

Yep, and it's nasty too.....Anyone speaking out offering an alternative view, even if they are joking, they are perused and damaged in anyway the activists can do it.

I agree the nutters in the tea party tried this but they haven't got their claws into the institutions like the left have.....Their influence...thank god...never extended there.

But the ideological thought police...they have infected pretty much every institution and the corporations are terrified of them. That scientist was one very public example...You have Toronto professor Jordan Peterson and the 'pronoun' nonsense in Canada and of course you have Milo...being shut down by protestors with added violence at Berkeley and after that being witch hunted over silly comments about underage sex.....Oh and apparently it's ok to sucker punch the far right on the street with many of them.

Opinions that don't threaten violence are allowed.....and people shouldn't feck around with what 'violence' means either....like the lawyers did to the word 'assault'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Apr 2017 10.57pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 19 Apr 17 11.11pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Political Correctness was imported from the US in the early 70's. In my 'umble, those that have propagated it the most, whilst pretending to abhor it, are those that stood/stand to profit from it the most. I am looking at you 'sue for everything' lawyers 'they have hurt your feelings' (the law when it is an ass is complicit) and the media who just love to 'keep 'em angry' and 'keep 'em scared'. It sells. Most left-leaning, left of centre folk that I know are entirely rational, open-minded, speak as you find people who don't jump down the throat of others who have opinions but will instead engage in conversation and debate. The image portrayed is far removed from what my own experiences have shown me. Don't get me wrong, I have met some right sanctimonious 'intellectually superior' cvnts in real life who like to think of themselves as the above but they are so not. Not fit to wipe Wedgie Benns shoes were he alive. I don't even regard them as socially conscious or even into what I would call traditional leftism. Unfortunately, they have tarnished the decent left in the eyes of people such as yourself. But, without the left and Victorian social consciousness (what would be regarded as leftism today - the well-being of children, old people, education and health and housing, etc) - Britain would be a much more backward society if we are talking about the last 100-150 years. I do have left wing friends on FB who are definitely not snowflakes and are tolerant and debate opinions widely different to their own...Often is a far nicer tone than I use....I respect that. It also has to be said that there are lefties on here, you included, who do the same....It's worthy of its respect, despite all the knock-about I give you.....I think perhaps those who are more tolerant on the left have elements of the 'classical' liberal about them rather than the 'progressive' aspect about them. It is true that some of them also fight against PC culture. While PC culture is definitely mainly pushed by the 'progressive' left. I take your point that it isn't only them and that any unethical organization or individual who that feels they can make money or advantage from a situation will often use it too. Also...I've run into some tea party supporters and some of those were pretty ruthless and uninterested in any sense of balance or fairness. Not my kind of people. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Apr 2017 12.51am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Apr 17 11.11pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Political Correctness was imported from the US in the early 70's. In my 'umble, those that have propagated it the most, whilst pretending to abhor it, are those that stood/stand to profit from it the most. I am looking at you 'sue for everything' lawyers 'they have hurt your feelings' (the law when it is an ass is complicit) and the media who just love to 'keep 'em angry' and 'keep 'em scared'. It sells.

Most left-leaning, left of centre folk that I know are entirely rational, open-minded, speak as you find people who don't jump down the throat of others who have opinions but will instead engage in conversation and debate.

The image portrayed is far removed from what my own experiences have shown me.

Don't get me wrong, I have met some right sanctimonious 'intellectually superior' cvnts in real life who like to think of themselves as the above but they are so not. Not fit to wipe Wedgie Benns shoes were he alive. I don't even regard them as socially conscious or even into what I would call traditional leftism. Unfortunately, they have tarnished the decent left in the eyes of people such as yourself.

But, without the left and Victorian social consciousness (what would be regarded as leftism today - the well-being of children, old people, education and health and housing, etc) - Britain would be a much more backward society if we are talking about the last 100-150 years.

I do have left wing friends on FB who are definitely not snowflakes and are tolerant and debate opinions widely different to their own...Often is a far nicer tone than I use....I respect that. It also has to be said that there are lefties on here, you included, who do the same....It's worthy of its respect, despite all the knock-about I give you.....I think perhaps those who are more tolerant on the left have elements of the 'classical' liberal about them rather than the 'progressive' aspect about them.

It is true that some of them also fight against PC culture.

While PC culture is definitely mainly pushed by the 'progressive' left. I take your point that it isn't only them and that any unethical organization or individual who that feels they can make money or advantage from a situation will often use it too.

Also...I've run into some tea party supporters and some of those were pretty ruthless and uninterested in any sense of balance or fairness.

Not my kind of people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Apr 2017 12.51am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Nest 19 Apr 17 11.43pm
Originally posted by matt_himself What you posted is not truth. It is total bollocks. you're hurting

Nest

19 Apr 17 11.43pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

What you posted is not truth. It is total bollocks.

you're hurting

matt_himself Matataland 20 Apr 17 6.52am
Mr Sellout is standing in the election: [Link] "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 20 Apr 17 6.52am

Mr Sellout is standing in the election:

[Link]

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.05am
Originally posted by matt_himself Did the ballot paper say 'Leave bits of the EU but not all of it'? No, it said leave. Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU. Many leave campaigners cited those two countries as potential models. Many leave campaigners said they didn't want that kind of deal. Leaving the EU doesn't imply any one single set of circumstances post leaving. There are myriad possibilities, not one of which was ever set out as being the route we would take as the government didn't bother considering what would happen in the event of Brexit. You can leave the EU but still have access to the single market. You can leave and not have access. Neither option was specified on the ballot paper.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.05am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Did the ballot paper say 'Leave bits of the EU but not all of it'? No, it said leave.

Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU. Many leave campaigners cited those two countries as potential models. Many leave campaigners said they didn't want that kind of deal. Leaving the EU doesn't imply any one single set of circumstances post leaving. There are myriad possibilities, not one of which was ever set out as being the route we would take as the government didn't bother considering what would happen in the event of Brexit. You can leave the EU but still have access to the single market. You can leave and not have access. Neither option was specified on the ballot paper.

gambler Kent 20 Apr 17 9.13am
Originally posted by matt_himself Mr Sellout is standing in the election: [Link] Wrong'un.

gambler

Kent 20 Apr 17 9.13am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Mr Sellout is standing in the election:

[Link]

Wrong'un.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.17am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Actually tax take is very important. While I'd agree with you upon the ethics of the various situations all I'm actually interested in is the end result. The elite will always protect and insulate itself and those saying that this can be changed by government are not only lying to themselves but to others. Only worldwide action can change that and hence it's pointless. You have to create an economy that the rich are willing to invest in....or they will take their ill gotten gains elsewhere.....As happened in France....You see that's what socialism gets the poor....an increase in support for the far right. Tell me a government that has used your ideas and has increased the wealth of its poorest? The Nordics. Inequality is also much lower in Germany. Tax in the UK is very low compared with other OECD countries so that would suggest elsewhere in the world others have taken action, but the UK has instead decided to reduce tax on companies and the wealthiest. France will elect Macron who has committed to getting rid of taxe d'habitation which is a regressive tax, and to rejig the wealth tax in France to make it fairer and decrease corporation tax to a more competitive level. He has also said he will invest in the French economy and will target productivity and French industry. Areas in France have suffered from death of traditional industry and no support in creating new jobs and new industries. If I were entitled to vote in France I'd be quite optimistic about what Macron will do. But it remains to be seen!

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.17am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Actually tax take is very important. While I'd agree with you upon the ethics of the various situations all I'm actually interested in is the end result.

The elite will always protect and insulate itself and those saying that this can be changed by government are not only lying to themselves but to others. Only worldwide action can change that and hence it's pointless.

You have to create an economy that the rich are willing to invest in....or they will take their ill gotten gains elsewhere.....As happened in France....You see that's what socialism gets the poor....an increase in support for the far right.

Tell me a government that has used your ideas and has increased the wealth of its poorest?

The Nordics. Inequality is also much lower in Germany.

Tax in the UK is very low compared with other OECD countries so that would suggest elsewhere in the world others have taken action, but the UK has instead decided to reduce tax on companies and the wealthiest.

France will elect Macron who has committed to getting rid of taxe d'habitation which is a regressive tax, and to rejig the wealth tax in France to make it fairer and decrease corporation tax to a more competitive level. He has also said he will invest in the French economy and will target productivity and French industry. Areas in France have suffered from death of traditional industry and no support in creating new jobs and new industries. If I were entitled to vote in France I'd be quite optimistic about what Macron will do. But it remains to be seen!

Rubin 20 Apr 17 9.22am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU. Many leave campaigners cited those two countries as potential models. Many leave campaigners said they didn't want that kind of deal. Leaving the EU doesn't imply any one single set of circumstances post leaving. There are myriad possibilities, not one of which was ever set out as being the route we would take as the government didn't bother considering what would happen in the event of Brexit. You can leave the EU but still have access to the single market. You can leave and not have access. Neither option was specified on the ballot paper. Boris, Gove, Leadsome and others all said that it meant leaving the single market.

Rubin

20 Apr 17 9.22am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Boris, Gove, Leadsome and others all said that it meant leaving the single market.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.28am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So what you are suggesting is that life will be better under Labour. Did you ever know a time when your life was demonstrably better because of any political party? I imagine in 1967 Labour's decision to decriminalise homosexuality made gay peoples' lives better. And again in 2004 the civil partnerships act would have made their lives better.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.28am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So what you are suggesting is that life will be better under Labour.

Did you ever know a time when your life was demonstrably better because of any political party?

I imagine in 1967 Labour's decision to decriminalise homosexuality made gay peoples' lives better. And again in 2004 the civil partnerships act would have made their lives better.

bubble wrap Carparks in South East London 20 Apr 17 9.32am
Waiting for Steve Parish to throw his hat in the ring.

bubble wrap

Carparks in South East London 20 Apr 17 9.32am

Waiting for Steve Parish to throw his hat in the ring.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.33am
Originally posted by Rubin Boris, Gove, Leadsome and others all said that it meant leaving the single market. Quote from Boris: "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market."

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Apr 17 9.33am

Originally posted by Rubin

Boris, Gove, Leadsome and others all said that it meant leaving the single market.

Quote from Boris:

"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market."

matt_himself Matataland 20 Apr 17 9.33am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU. Many leave campaigners cited those two countries as potential models. Many leave campaigners said they didn't want that kind of deal. Leaving the EU doesn't imply any one single set of circumstances post leaving. There are myriad possibilities, not one of which was ever set out as being the route we would take as the government didn't bother considering what would happen in the event of Brexit. You can leave the EU but still have access to the single market. You can leave and not have access. Neither option was specified on the ballot paper. How can any person, us in reasonable judgment, think that leaving the EU means retaining some of the items of membership? Leave means leave. It means being freed from the shackles of undemocratic, unrepresentative federalism, which is something no one voted for when joining the common market in the 1970's. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 20 Apr 17 9.33am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

How can any person, us in reasonable judgment, think that leaving the EU means retaining some of the items of membership?

Leave means leave. It means being freed from the shackles of undemocratic, unrepresentative federalism, which is something no one voted for when joining the common market in the 1970's.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself Matataland 20 Apr 17 9.40am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I imagine in 1967 Labour's decision to decriminalise homosexuality made gay peoples' lives better. And again in 2004 the civil partnerships act would have made their lives better. Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 20 Apr 17 9.40am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I imagine in 1967 Labour's decision to decriminalise homosexuality made gay peoples' lives better. And again in 2004 the civil partnerships act would have made their lives better.

Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

Part Time James 20 Apr 17 9.44am
Originally posted by matt_himself Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution? Don't worry, it'll be illegal again under Sharia law. Actually, that's a bit flippant. It'll just be frowned upon.

Part Time James

20 Apr 17 9.44am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution?

Don't worry, it'll be illegal again under Sharia law.

Actually, that's a bit flippant. It'll just be frowned upon.

hedgehog50 Croydon 20 Apr 17 9.53am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Norway and Switzerland aren't part of the EU. Many leave campaigners cited those two countries as potential models. Many leave campaigners said they didn't want that kind of deal. Leaving the EU doesn't imply any one single set of circumstances post leaving. There are myriad possibilities, not one of which was ever set out as being the route we would take as the government didn't bother considering what would happen in the event of Brexit. You can leave the EU but still have access to the single market. You can leave and not have access. Neither option was specified on the ballot paper. Of course we should leave the single market. If we don't we would be subject to all the nonsense that made people vote to Leave in the first place - uncontrollable immigration (aka 'free movement of people), inability to trade with the result of the world, subject to ever increasing EU red tape regulations, not to mention being party to the crippling tariffs that are ruining African farmers. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 20 Apr 17 9.53am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Of course we should leave the single market. If we don't we would be subject to all the nonsense that made people vote to Leave in the first place - uncontrollable immigration (aka 'free movement of people), inability to trade with the result of the world, subject to ever increasing EU red tape regulations, not to mention being party to the crippling tariffs that are ruining African farmers.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Rubin 20 Apr 17 10.07am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Quote from Boris: "British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market." Ok, he seems to not be consistent then: [Link] Interesting that Pro-remain politicians, in this case, George Osborne, also said that a vote to leave would mean leaving the single market.

Rubin

20 Apr 17 10.07am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Quote from Boris:

Ok, he seems to not be consistent then:

[Link]

Interesting that Pro-remain politicians, in this case, George Osborne, also said that a vote to leave would mean leaving the single market.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 20 Apr 17 10.08am
Originally posted by matt_himself Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution? When was owning a house illegal? That was just an example of a government making someones life demonstrably better, but I completely disagree that owning property is a greater right than who you chose to spend your life with or have sex with.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 20 Apr 17 10.08am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Why is left so enamoured with gay rights? Surely people of all sexual persuasions bein allowed to own their homes is a greater social and economic revolution?

When was owning a house illegal?

That was just an example of a government making someones life demonstrably better, but I completely disagree that owning property is a greater right than who you chose to spend your life with or have sex with.

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