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jamiemartin721  Reading 29 Jun 17 9.56am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Just Tory MPs ? Think I have said enough about all this Politics so I shall get off my 'Soapbox' and concentrate on the football debates ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 9.22am) To paraphrase the late, great Bill Hicks, "All politicians are liars, and murderers".
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Jun 17 10.00am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Total and utter piffle when you consider that 'Tragedy' is defined as" an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress" If you wish to deal in fastidiousness in phraseology perhaps you might consider the words of that 'Charming' McDonnell who claimed that the victims of Grenfell were "MURDERED by political decisions". His rhetoric about Tory murders is in keeping with the rest of his career which has been caharcterised by extremism. He's wrong, they weren't murdered. They died as a result of manslaughter, as clearly it was never the intention of those who built or refitted the tower to kill or cause harm directly. However, their actions, who ever they are (and I doubt they're conservative or labour in truth) must be held accountable for what is going to easily turn out to be the biggest disaster recent decades. And we must ensure that it does not become another Hillsborough. The death toll will not sit at 79. It will in my opinion exceed 100, by the end of the year.
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 Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 29 Jun 17 10.02am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
No its political, because people burning to death in a building, which has cladding that fails fire safety tests is entirely political. There was no shortage of fire fighters fighting the blaze, but there was no feasible method by which to rescue people trapped on the higher floors, or for fighting fires above the third floor. I don't think it really matters whether its a Labour council or Conservative council, those people died unnecessarily, and despite being in existence for decades, there was no reasonable methodology for dealing with fires at that altitude or for the rescue of people. For me, both Labour and the Conservatives, and every council since that tower was built bear some responsibility for these events. But citizens dying is entirely political. Trying to hide away behind inquiries and investigations, suggests to me, that its going to be the 'Hillsborough' long haul to justice. Once upon a time, people would have resigned over this kind of scandal, even if they weren't directly at fault, but represented the body accountable. When people in the UK die, because of negligence, and in this case its increasingly looking like the cladding wasn't up to fire standards, then we should be angry and political about it. Labour make it 'Political' when they peddle their brand of ghoulish political sectarianism, seeking to exploit public tragedy for political gain. Even seen that the "Erudite" Diane Abbott has been squawking that hundreds died because of the direct consequences of Tory attitudes.The exact circumstances of the fire are yet to be determined yet this has not inhibited Labour in it's tasteless, offensive campaign of crude vilification. I have to go out now - so no more politics from me for a while ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 10.03am)
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| Hansy 29 Jun 17 10.22am |
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People will use the Tower fire to gain political points, as with anything bad that happens. At the end of the day the cladding was against building regulations, so someone regarding the upgrade to the tower is at fault. Politicians all lie, that's why they are in the position they are as it is. Both parties have high rise towers in their constituencies, including Jeremy Corbyn, doesn't mean it is their fault. Fire safety should be carried out by the correct department (The fire services), not the council. We can thank the Bill labour brought in 2005/2006 and thank the Tories for the Fire services cuts. In all seriousness both parties are to blame, but neither will take responsibility.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Jun 17 10.34am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Labour make it 'Political' when they peddle their brand of ghoulish political sectarianism, seeking to exploit public tragedy for political gain. Even seen that the "Erudite" Diane Abbott has been squawking that hundreds died because of the direct consequences of Tory attitudes.The exact circumstances of the fire are yet to be determined yet this has not inhibited Labour in it's tasteless, offensive campaign of crude vilification. I have to go out now - so no more politics from me for a while ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 10.03am) She's right, but of course, she also misses the point that Labour have been the same. Political decisions always have consequences on human lives. The circumstances seem pretty clear, the cladding burned and spread the fire rapidly and was not sufficient for fire safety codes. There was insufficient fire planning and safety in the build regulations, and services, to deal with a fire like this - and only one method by which to evacuate people above the third floor, a single stairwell. No I don't think its the conservatives fault, and I think they'll get more of the negative press, because they're the party 'of business and profit', and it seems reasonable to see that there is a point at which profit is placed above peoples lives (or more correctly risk). My suspicion is that organised crime is behind it, using corruption to win contracts and accredit cheap materials and supply 'substandard' materials as quality materials, chipping off percentages everywhere in the contract (i.e. the cladding was 'approved' because they paid off the safety people, allowing them to use cheaper materials, charged as standard materials. Its astonishing how much money organised crime makes from such practices, and how well placed organised crime is within the building industry.
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| Hansy 29 Jun 17 10.56am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I wouldn't say organised crime. But I agree, I think it is building companies getting nice contracts and using much cheaper materials to gain larger profits. Now that it was against building regulations, does that mean it will turn into a criminal case?
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| Hansy 29 Jun 17 11.24am |
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Another amendment I doubt will go through. It should have been a N.Ireland MP putting this through, but abortions (As much as it is a touchy subject) is banned in the Republic of Ireland unless seriously Ill, both Sinn Fein and DUP are against Abortions, and those in Ireland that need/want an abortion have to pay for it in another country (Usually the UK).
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 29 Jun 17 12.00pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Labour minion alert. You are a self confessed Labour activist. Why should anyone take anything you post seriously? I post a link with actual real sources to back up the claims made within and this is your response?
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| wordup 29 Jun 17 12.38pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Labour make it 'Political' when they peddle their brand of ghoulish political sectarianism, seeking to exploit public tragedy for political gain. Even seen that the "Erudite" Diane Abbott has been squawking that hundreds died because of the direct consequences of Tory attitudes.The exact circumstances of the fire are yet to be determined yet this has not inhibited Labour in it's tasteless, offensive campaign of crude vilification. I have to go out now - so no more politics from me for a while ! Edited by Willo (29 Jun 2017 10.03am) If Labour were in power now, you'd have a very different take on things. Politically you're a ticked box for your party come what may and view things through that filter. There are of course questions to be asked of this government, of previous, of regulations and more. I'm happy to let the facts speak for themselves on this matter not to defend 'my lot', primarily because becoming this wedded to any party is pointless and self defeating.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jun 17 12.39pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
I post a link with actual real sources to back up the claims made within and this is your response? Yap yap yap. You work for the Labour Party. You have no objectivity end of.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 29 Jun 17 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by Hansy
Another amendment I doubt will go through. It should have been a N.Ireland MP putting this through, but abortions (As much as it is a touchy subject) is banned in the Republic of Ireland unless seriously Ill, both Sinn Fein and DUP are against Abortions, and those in Ireland that need/want an abortion have to pay for it in another country (Usually the UK). An absurd situation, where in you can't get an abortion locally, but have to travel to the UK, and obtain at expense a procedure that prevents you becoming a major burden on the state. Its putting religion before individual rights. its not like you have to get an abortion, but that you can choose. I don't mind paying taxes for women to be able to obtain abortion, rather than pay for unwanted children for 18 years (Education, Child Benefit, Unemployment benefit, tax credits). Religion has no place in politics.
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| Hansy 29 Jun 17 1.22pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
An absurd situation, where in you can't get an abortion locally, but have to travel to the UK, and obtain at expense a procedure that prevents you becoming a major burden on the state. Its putting religion before individual rights. its not like you have to get an abortion, but that you can choose. I don't mind paying taxes for women to be able to obtain abortion, rather than pay for unwanted children for 18 years (Education, Child Benefit, Unemployment benefit, tax credits). Religion has no place in politics. I agree totally, but then it should be up to the Northern Irish people to decide and not a London MP. The Northern Irish are a lot more religious imo than we are. And nearly half want Irish Unity (Where in Ireland you have to travel and pay for an abortion elsewhere, usually the UK).
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