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Female Dr Who?


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 7.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Why not? It would make a refreshing change from the sea of identical 'progressive' robots that dominant the entertainment industry.

All non violent views have a place in the marketplace of ideas.

Start writing reviews, if you want to, mate.

FFS what is it with some people?

Bond isn't just any character, he is an iconic white character with a back story that has existed for decades.
Anyone would think that people were suggesting a picketing of films starring black actors to demand their roles are played by white people.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 7.40pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

FFS what is it with some people?

Bond isn't just any character, he is an iconic white character with a back story that has existed for decades.
Anyone would think that people were suggesting a picketing of films starring black actors to demand their roles are played by white people.

Yeah, lets remake the 'The Color Purple' and reverse the skin colour roles so that it is edgy.

Anyone complaining about it is a racist!

What did that band say in the ninties....'Modern life is crap'.....Sometimes I think that about developments in modern western culture.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jul 2017 7.42pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 7.41pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Ask him his views on racial demographics and representation on the news.

That's easy Einstein.
It should be representative.

 

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 7.42pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So far on these boards I've notice you use the word 'misogyny' in describing me....it's plainly ridiculous...My mother, god bless her, is probably worth ten of you.

Then here you use the term, 'white privilege'. So you are announcing your politics clear as day. You are a full on American style 'progressive'.

If I were to play your game I could accuse you of 'misandry'...in your case that certain hate of anything masculine that certain 'beta males' are so steeped into.

Well, in my opinion, there is a place for your personality type in society, just as there is a place for all non violent views.

However, if you want to play the game of name calling recognise that at a certain stage some people are going to get tired of it and then name calling is all you are going to get.


You can accuse me of that; you'd be wrong, and you have no evidence of it, but that doesn't mean you can't string the words together to form that accusation.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

wordup Flag 18 Jul 17 7.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If a black person asks for black role models do you ask them about it? I doubt it because them being a minority seems to give hem having a 'preference' a pass.

You know what I'm fine with that. You might prefer long legged black girls or white girls to short legged ones....Or blue eyed Scandinavian girls to short squat Italian types.

Having a preference isn't being racist. Being racist is being racist. Believing that the stereotype of a Scandinavian bird can be more attractive than an Italian one doesn't mean that I think any difference as to their worth as actual human beings. I don't believe the short Italian bird is a worst human being just because of her genetics...It's purely a physical thing....Hey I'd probably still fcuk her anyway.

If you prefer your Bond to be white or your Shaft to be black it doesn't really matter.

All that matters is how you treat people in real life.

Fairness is what matters.....not thought policing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jul 2017 7.21pm)

I haven't said that anyone is being racist because there is little point in ever doing so. If someone says "I want this character to be white because I'm white" it's a very specific thing to say and up to others how they view that.

In saying that I personally wouldn't rule out a black Bond, but am happy either way, I'm not somehow attempting to deprive white men of masculine male role models. In any case, that assumes that a white man needs a white role model, and black specifically needs black and so on. I believe that while it's useful for people to see others 'like them' do well, most people usually and thankfully view themselves in a less linear way than 'I'm this race, that gender' and so model themselves on a variety of people they admire.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 7.44pm

Originally posted by wordup

He's an underrated actor that's for sure. On top of that.. Anything to keep him off Question Time.

I must have missed that episode.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 7.46pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You clearly have a problem with the English language. I never said such a thing. I said I'd prefer Bond to be White. I don't care if you like that or not. What I prefer personally has no bearing on what the producers of Bond choose to do but the preference of the wider target audience as a whole will do.

The so called prejudice against Black actors you imply doesn't seem to have been a problem for Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, James Earl Jones, Danny Glover, Samuel Jackson, Idris Elba, Jennifer Hudson, Eddie Murphy, Forrest Whitaker,Paul Winfield, Laurence Fishburn, Don Cheadle, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Jamie Foxx, Ving Rhames....... I could go on... and on.

And The fact that two bad films featuring White people failed does not mean that casting White people was the cause or that casting Middle Eastern actors would have made them do any better.
Where do you get your logic from?


I never said that no non-white actor has ever made money. However, you have said - repeatedly in these pages - that you want Bond to be white, because you're white. If you can't see what's wrong with that logic, then I can't help. you.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 7.47pm

Originally posted by wordup

I haven't said that anyone is being racist because there is little point in ever doing so. If someone says "I want this character to be white because I'm white" it's a very specific thing to say and up to others how they view that.

In saying that I personally wouldn't rule out a black Bond, but am happy either way, I'm not somehow attempting to deprive white men of masculine male role models. In any case, that assumes that a white man needs a white role model, and black specifically needs black and so on. I believe that while it's useful for people to see others 'like them' do well, most people usually and thankfully view themselves in a less linear way than 'I'm this race, that gender' and so model themselves on a variety of people they admire.

No you didn't accuse people, I was reading between the lines and going further and hypering it up a bit.

You actually come across quite well.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 7.49pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No, it is you creating a strawman argument by purposefully misrepresenting what I said.

Anyone you thinks that having a preference for Bond to be White is 'racist' is a fruit loop. I'm sure some Black people want Bond to be White.


Someone wanting Bond to be white is not racist. I have said that a Bond set in his original era of the 1950s would be white because that would be historically accurate. You have said that you want Bond to be white because you're white; that's racist.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

wordup Flag 18 Jul 17 7.53pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I must have missed that episode.

You dodged a bullet!

 

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 7.57pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Someone wanting Bond to be white is not racist. I have said that a Bond set in his original era of the 1950s would be white because that would be historically accurate. You have said that you want Bond to be white because you're white; that's racist.

No it isn't, as expressed, it's preference.

I think you are conflating preference with racism. They are two separate ideas.

You would have to actually know the guy to accuse him of that.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.00pm

I prefer Shaft to be black...does that make me a racist.

I prefer Michael Jackson to be black...does that make me a racist.....That skin thing he did to himself...which he claimed was medical just didn't sit right with me....Still, free world.

Preference is different to racism.

Racism is racism....When people lower standards for it it doesn't help.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jul 2017 8.23pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.00pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah, lets remake the 'The Color Purple' and reverse the skin colour roles so that it is edgy.


They just did Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in Central Park in New York. They updated it to be - not about ancient Romans - but about a modern day saviour/strongman leader who wears ties that are too long, too much self-tanner and has too much hair swirled around on his head.

You could remake, for example, "The Color Purple" but set it in ISIS-controlled Syria and still maintain the core story of violence towards and suppression of a young girl.

You can remake anything into anything - more often than not to a lesser end. So, if you portray Bond as a modern figure in the modern era - as the current Bond is - the character can played by anyone as long as you stay true to what makes the character work, not the superficial look.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No it isn't, as expressed, it's preference.

I think you are conflating preference with racism. They are two separate ideas.

You would have to actually know the guy to accuse him of that.


"I prefer white people to black people."

That's a statement of preference; is it racist?

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.03pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


I never said that no non-white actor has ever made money. However, you have said - repeatedly in these pages - that you want Bond to be white, because you're white. If you can't see what's wrong with that logic, then I can't help. you.

I identify with a White character because I'm white.
If you can't see that that is a perfectly normal human condition then I can't help you.
As I have previously said. Bond is not just any old character. He is a cinematic icon. I have no desire to see him change colour and why would I? There are plenty of other characters played very well by Black actors and I'm sure there will be many more.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Jul 2017 8.05pm)

 

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.05pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I prefer Shaft to be white...does that make me a racist.

I prefer Michael Jackson to be black...does that make me a racist.....That skin thing he did to himself...which he claimed was medical just didn't sit right with me....Still, free world.

Preference is different to racism.

Racism is racism....When people lower standards for it it doesn't help.


Such statements aren't racist; the motivation driving them may be, however.

If you want Shaft to be white because you think that such a depiction would be an interesting exploration of race in our culture, then that's not racist. If you want Shaft to be white because you're white, that's racist.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.06pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I identify with a White character because I'm white.
If you can't see that that is a perfectly normal human condition then I can't help you.
As I have previously said. Bond is not just any old character. He is a cinematic icon. I have no desire to see him change colour and why would I? There are plenty of other characters played very well by Black actors and I'm sure there will be many more.


What if that white man was a Russian, or French, or Norwegian, or American. Did you identify with the German bomber pilots in "Battle of Britain"? They're white; very much so in fact.

Did you object to when the Craig-Bond movies took a white character - Felix Leiter - that had been written as white and always played by a white man - and turned him black?

Edited by Ray in Houston (18 Jul 2017 8.10pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 17 8.09pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Such statements aren't racist; the motivation driving them may be, however.

If you want Shaft to be white because you think that such a depiction would be an interesting exploration of race in our culture, then that's not racist. If you want Shaft to be white because you're white, that's racist.

Are you for real?
You need to get out more bud.

 

Ray in Houston Flag Houston 18 Jul 17 8.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Are you for real?
You need to get out more bud.


I moved to a whole nother country. Where are you?

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jul 17 8.21pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


They just did Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in Central Park in New York. They updated it to be - not about ancient Romans - but about a modern day saviour/strongman leader who wears ties that are too long, too much self-tanner and has too much hair swirled around on his head.

You could remake, for example, "The Color Purple" but set it in ISIS-controlled Syria and still maintain the core story of violence towards and suppression of a young girl.

You can remake anything into anything - more often than not to a lesser end. So, if you portray Bond as a modern figure in the modern era - as the current Bond is - the character can played by anyone as long as you stay true to what makes the character work, not the superficial look.

Yeah, I'd say that is all valid.

Art, for art's sake, doesn't have to hold true to boundaries.....I suppose if I see something as tokenism or as just being done to push ideologies it pisses me off a bit....But art as a pure art form of expression shouldn't be told what it can and can't do....Yeah I'd agree with that.

Still, it's also perfectly valid to criticise it from pretty much most perspectives as I suppose that is the core of what art is....viewponts and perspectives.

I like the fantasy of Bond as this British strong representative of anglo saxonism....But I know that it is what it is....just a fiction designed to entertain a demographic and pass leisure time for them....It won't be to everyone's tastes and I don't think any art form can be...Or really should try in a perfect world....Though we know that commercial art forms are obviously under massive pressures to make their investments back.

The skin colour is more an aesthetic.....more important to some more than others but I'm fine with however people feel about it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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