Sovereignty.

If the last 3 years have shown you anything, its that the UK parliament is a bigger f*** up than the EU.

And sovereignty means they get MORE power.

Worse trading arrangements, lack of access to police and terror data, chaos at the borders, recession, higher prices, lack of goods and medicine, uk manufacturers priced out of the market, job losses.

I certainly dont get why people have such a boner for brexit - its probably going to cause a huge recession.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

How about the other 23 individuals or groups I mentioned, Rudi?

Is the head of the farmers union engaging in project fear, for s***s and giggles. Are Northern Ireland Police scare mongering, just for the sake of it?

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Nobody wants extra work or to have to think and adapt if they can avoid having to.

COYP

No it is not! It's a fact.

Read this about how they might be made legitimate in future but are not now:-

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

How about the other 23 individuals or entities I mentioned?

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

I'd imagine a large chunk of them wouldn't put their money where their mouth is if we were to leave on a WTO, and a lot of it is politically motivated, as this has turned out to be.

Sovereignty means control over immigration.
Sovereignty means control over most other laws.
Sovereignty means independence as a separate country.

You are obsessed with money.

Money is important but few leavers voted leave because of money.

Your precious EU acts like an independent superstate and wants it's own foreign policy and even talks of an army independent of Nato.

All this from a bunch of politicians who rule in an untouchable cabal whose commission can't be removed in any practical sense and who can't even put together a coherent currency that works and whose system is so corrupt even an Italian would blush.

People aren't stupid despite what you like to think. You carry on thinking the EU is the bees knees. I'll live and die as an Englishman: I never traded in.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2019 10.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

There is an onion-like quality to it I agree, in that you strip away one layer, and there's another bunch of clowns pulling the strings. But at the same time there is a good argument that the more local politics is to you, the more potential there is at least to have say.

There is a certainly irony that, if say we do leave soon, the government will likely try to up the number of non EU immigrants coming in, and so will the endless immigration issue, which was key to us voting leave, be improved? I think most people voting leave recognise this fact though, and that it's a transition stage, where in a post-brexit society, politics and parties may well be in a serious slate of flux for a good while, but there is still that opportunity to shape a society and government that feels like we have a direct link to it.

If the EU had listened on immigration. If only to offer a sensible cap, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. Maybe in future they will have tiers of countries where say you can move or live freely between certain groups of countries, but not others. That it appears to be would have been a more sensible approach. I'm not fortunate teller of course, and it's dragged on so long, I find that I'm just observing now without trying to look ahead to what next month or next year will bring.

Apologies if I am going to come across as a bit of a lunatic but there is something seriously amiss at the moment.

We have a Conservative Leadership campaign underway in which the strongest message is being sent that if anybody who actually wins it decides to take us out of the EU without a deal, then other Conservative MP's will crash their own Government, opening the door for a Corbyn led Labour Party.

Supposedly the worst thing ever.

This is insanity. Absolute madness.

Also throw in what seems an elaborate attempt to undermine Corbyn (this expulsion of Alastair Campbell is beginning to not feel right either. Suspecting this about far, far more than him voting Lib-Dem) and I am wondering if we are on the verge of a cross-party coup.

Something along the lines of a national Government? An attempt to share the blame of revoking A50 or implementing a rigged second referendum?

Willing to accept all the abuse possible because I would be tempted to do so myself if somebody else were writing this, and it could well be me being me, but this is all stinking now to high heaven.

Remain Labour want rid of Corbyn. Remain Tories want rid of anybody who actually might see through on their manifesto promise. And the Brexit Party must be causing them to be needing a change of under pants because it upsets the entire apple-cart of Left/Right that our system is based on.

These b******s will stitch us all up if it means saving their careers and the jungle they play in.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

It's dragged on so long I think we're all losing the plot a bit. I would say though that the EU election result has to mean something to the Conservatives though, and has to be a message. Logically, a huge chunk of their vote went to the Brexit Party and the only way to get that back is to maintain a momentum towards leaving, or at least renegotiating something meaningful if that option becomes available again.

What is the alternative? They can't back remain or let Corbyn in. It would utterly disintegrate the party, and I don't see what they would gain from crashing their own government either. If anything I think once the leadership battle is over, more agreement will develop amongst them out of desperation to get out of the other side of this intact.