Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

You buy your house out of your income after it has been taxed plus pay stamp duty.

To say the state should take a persons estate when they die is ridiculous not least because people will make sure that they get rid of everything anyway.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Is this similar to what was in the Tory manifesto yesterday RE elderly care?

Changing the basis of inheritance tax has not actually been proposed by any of the parties. We're getting into the realms of what we believe is fair, which is interesting and worth discussing. My argument is that I don't think the current basis is fair for reasons previously outlined. Tax on taxed income is a thing. Companies pay corporation tax on profits which are generated from income earned from consumers who've already paid income tax on that income etc etc. The real question is what is fairest and most effective.

In terms of what is on offer on IHT in this election the Tories will carry on with plans to exempt property up to £1m and Labour are likely to reverse that and bring property back into the main nil rate pool (up to £650k). £650k is still a lot of money to receive tax free having not worked for it. The Tory policy takes money out of public services and puts it into the pockets of people with more than £1m in assets, assets they haven't earned themselves, but been given by relatives.

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

I wasn't talking in terms of IHT, I was talking about your comment regarding (earned?)income.

I have no issue with IHT but 40% over the threshold is punitive, particularly when you live in London / South East.

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I kind of agree.

I suppose I want to better the state...I recognise that for all its faults it is incredibly important....The problem is that there are a lot of good people like yourself who throw their hands up in the air over a lot of the controversial stuff and give up on it.

A lot of talented people opt out....they play the elitist game.....private schools, private healthcare, looking to pay as low a tax as possible and so on....I'm generalising of course. But they lower the standard by removing themselves.

Ultimately they add to the problems of what they complain about and then implicitly say, 'nothing to do with me, it's that lot'. Yet when they need the state they take it....which as tax payers they are entitled to.

I probably agree with you on most of what you don't like about the state.

I just think we all need to pull together on essentially the only show in town.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 May 2017 9.33am)

Originally posted by Hansy

Conservatives, increasing the Tax allowance by 2020, bringing immigration down; Smaller increase to the NHS.

Labour, largest spending for the NHS and Education; nationalise the Railways and Energy sectors.

Lib Dems, 1p tax increase ring fenced for the NHS; Second referendum on Brexit.

It is quite an interesting read for all three in all honesty. Conservatives very much positioning themselves as the party to guide us through the Brexit process, which will bring on those that voted in favour of UKIP in 2015. Labour targeting the young, whilst giving themselves the ‘Soft Brexit’ identity. And Lib Dems targeting anyone that voted against Brexit, by giving them another vote.

The above points from their manifesto, I did not want to mention any negative points. Conservatives have been labelled the ‘Hard Brexit’ party by all others mainly because they won’t confirm they will go for Single Market access and advising ‘No deal is better than a bad one’. They have a white paper in negotiations, this should be seen as a plus in my view. You cannot go into negotiations with points on our side already confirmed, the example being guaranteeing EU rights in the UK; yet the EU haven’t confirmed the right for the UK citizens living in the EU. In my opinion the Tories (I have been a Labour voter all my life in Streatham, having been blessed with an MP such as Chuka Umunna) are the best party to negotiate our deal. If we gain no deal, WTO guidelines advise that 1/3 of our exported products will continue to be Tariff free, with the Car exporting industry the highest % increase being 10%; As we know though Theresa May is coming to an agreement with the Car industry already in the UK. I live in Carshalton now, which has been a vastly Lib Dem area, but having voted in favour of Brexit; this could easily swing to being a Tory constituency.

Labour have promised a lot of things this time round. Huge boosts to the NHS and Education, whilst nationalising Railway and Energy companies. The NHS and Education I totally believe in, and something that should be in the forefront of every manifesto. The NHS and Education I believe are the backbone of our country, investing in the kids to get a good education and do well for themselves in the future, whilst guaranteeing lower wait times and medical attention. Nationalising the Railway and Energy companies, would be nice to see. Mainly to get it back in the hands of the Government having complete power over them. The big question, I will repeat the BIG question is how Labour will be able to fund all of these large spends? Increasing the tax rates for those earning above £80k and Corporation Tax will not be able to cover everything, this will mean the UK will need to borrow and take a hit on the Debt. One thing Labour believe in is the best way of getting out of trouble within the economy is to grow it, contrast to what the Tories believe in which is cutting spending. But with over 170 Labour MPs passing a vote of no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn JUST LAST YEAR, how can he be the best man for the job and why do they now suddenly support him?

Lib Dems utterly believe the Tories will win, and want to use this election just to gain some of the seats they lost in 2015. It’s a good strategy, but still a doomed one. They were hit the hardest from the coalition, which they can thank Nick Clegg for. Promises broken, power grabbing confirmed you have to feel sorry for those that have voted for the Lib Dems all their life.

I saw nickgusset’s comment regarding National Debt being the highest within a Tory government. That is true, but the reason why it is the highest was due to Labour’s mismanagement of the Country’s deficit leading up to 2010. Labour believe in spending and growing their way out of trouble, as I mentioned previously. With their manifesto, that cannot work. The Tories proved that they can cut spending, whilst keeping the economy growing. The reason why the overall debt increased in 2008-2012, was due to the funding the Government had to give during the financial crisis and the repercussions after. The below link shows how Labour and the Tories managed the deficit.

[Link]

Originally posted by Hansy

Lib Dems utterly believe the Tories will win, and want to use this election just to gain some of the seats they lost in 2015. It’s a good strategy, but still a doomed one. They were hit the hardest from the coalition, which they can thank Nick Clegg for. Promises broken, power grabbing confirmed you have to feel sorry for those that have voted for the Lib Dems all their life.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle On what do you base your assertions that fiscal stimulus in the shape of Labour's manifesto can't work? Genuinely interested. Debt is very cheap and People's QE also an option.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Nick's post was actually an article showing Tories have borrowed more on average over the last 70 years not just in the last parliament.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Also the debt growth in the past 8 years was first and foremost due to the GFC rather than fiscal mismanagement. It's continued to grow due to Tory mismanagement of the economy and damaging austerity. Using austerity in an economic depression only worsens the situation. The Tories cuts made it worse not better. The deficit has only gone back to pre-GFC levels this year and that's mainly due to increases in consumer spending funded by short term credit. Instead of cheap government borrowing and investment our economy has been built on costly and precarious private consumer credit.