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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 Jun 19 11.32pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

And you sir, are too thick to understand the following:

Parliament will not sanction a no deal exit on their own
No one wants another extension, not least the EU

Therefore there is only one way out of this, another vote. If you really want to crash out of the EU overnight, it would have to be voted on because parliament are not going to do that.

Well said!

Far too many here, and among the hard Brexiteers generally, don't seem to acknowledge that who-ever becomes PM will face the same Parliament and the same problem. This Parliament will not permit a no deal Brexit. Whether they are "too thick" or just unwilling to acknowledge a truth they don't like is an open question.

I think myself that there is another possible scenario in which the government loses a vote of no confidence and during the period when another is attempted to be formed that Parliament votes to repeal Article 50. After 14 days, and no new government, a GE must be called. Then things would get really interesting, with a new vote, with a variety of options on the ballot paper, being in the manifestos of enough parties to bring a coalition together. Farage would split the Tories and Labour might dump Corbyn if he goes on being reluctant. Too far ahead though for too much speculation really.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

DANGERCLOSE Flag London 05 Jun 19 12.31am

 

Maine Eagle Flag USA 05 Jun 19 3.05am

When you only ever post twitter stories which are utterly partisan and one sided, they lose all meaning.

Kind of like Adam Schiff.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle Flag USA 05 Jun 19 3.11am

ho hum, another day goes by, another day closer to the revocation of article 50.

Here is the idiot's guide, step by step. Revocation for dummies one might say.

1 - Bercow will not allow a new PM to unilaterally trigger a no deal exit.

2 - Parliament will not sanction no deal on their own.

3 - The EU will not fancy yet another extension, and neither will the new PM.

4 - With about 1 month to go, the new PM will realize they cannot force through no deal.

5 - The new PM will call for the only option left, a new vote.

6 - All parties will agree to an extension, given the assurance of a new vote.

7 - The electoral college will insist on a remain option, if no deal goes on there.

8 - There is no way on God's green earth that more people want a no deal crash out of the EU, than want to remain now.

9 - Brexit will get cancelled.

10 - There will be some level of social disorder for a few weeks, then it will go back to chats in pubs and coffee shops, and the brexiteers will bide their time until a new leader or two comes along who can once again trick the masses into thinking leaving the EU will benefit them.

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Stirlingsays Flag 05 Jun 19 3.40am

Let there be no mistake.

If there is no form of Brexit. If the UK doesn't leave the EU in some form. Then the consequences will be much more damaging than 'social disorder'.

There would be a separation of trust and a dangerous resentment and dissidence that will ferment within a significant body of the political public. It's already there on the edges.

You would actually be creating and cementing that nationalism into the mainstream that you are appartently so against.

Perhaps, I should change tact and start supporting 'remain' as a sort of accelerationist policy.

If I were 25 years younger I probably would but to be honest just as politics is getting really interesting my mind is starting to turn away from it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Jun 19 7.03am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

ho hum, another day goes by, another day closer to the revocation of article 50.

Here is the idiot's guide, step by step. Revocation for dummies one might say.

1 - Bercow will not allow a new PM to unilaterally trigger a no deal exit.

There will be uproar if Bercow tries to act as if he was the leader of the Government and at the very least he will risk remaining Mr Bercow for the rest of his life rather than the expected Lord Bercow

 

dannyboy1978 Flag 05 Jun 19 7.41am

Go on the piers
[Link]

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Jun 19 8.08am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

ho hum, another day goes by, another day closer to the revocation of article 50.

Here is the idiot's guide, step by step. Revocation for dummies one might say.

1 - Bercow will not allow a new PM to unilaterally trigger a no deal exit.
Agreed it has to be a vote in Parliament my concern is that Bercow will try and skew the form of vote.

2 - Parliament will not sanction no deal on their own.
Not so sure about this. The DUP have indicated they would vote for a no deal as long as they are treated the same as the rest of the UK. May's deal didn't do that. In addition many Tory MPs who don't support a no deal will have to face the reality of de-selection by their own party or by the voters. Survival instincts may take over.

3 - The EU will not fancy yet another extension, and neither will the new PM.
Agreed. Unless there is a deal on that table that everybody is happy with and they have just run out of time I don't see an extension.

4 - With about 1 month to go, the new PM will realize they cannot force through no deal.
See point 2 you maybe right but too soon to tell.

5 - The new PM will call for the only option left, a new vote.
If it's stalemate in the commons and Boris is PM I think we could get a GE. I think once he is PM the Tory vote will recover.

6 - All parties will agree to an extension, given the assurance of a new vote.
Maybe but what's the question, that will decide who supports it.

7 - The electoral college will insist on a remain option, if no deal goes on there.
You mean Electoral Commission and yes I agree if it's another referendum it's back to my answer to point 6. I don't see a fair question that will satisfy all parties and the Electoral Commission and the courts because they're will be legal challenges.

8 - There is no way on God's green earth that more people want a no deal crash out of the EU, than want to remain now.
That's a guess, your probably right but if it's the only option on the table because the EU refuses to negotiate I think it will happen. Note Labour's policy is based on doing a deal with the EU that is better than May's. If the EU stands firm and say no new deal then I think uncommitted people will switch to Leave because the EU forces them to.

9 - Brexit will get cancelled.
At this stage I would say a no deal Brexit is more likely.

10 - There will be some level of social disorder for a few weeks, then it will go back to chats in pubs and coffee shops, and the brexiteers will bide their time until a new leader or two comes along who can once again trick the masses into thinking leaving the EU will benefit them.


I hope not, no sensible person wants to see disorder remember our politics is based on the losers accepting they have lost. Once that goes people resort to violence.

 


One more point

Aray Flag South London 05 Jun 19 8.43am

Once we leave we have a lovely trade deal coming from the Yanks! Yay.

This web page is from the US Govt Office of the US Trade Representative includes a public hearing on the objectives

[Link]

Link to panel discussion: [Link]

Page 268 of the PDF of the panel discussion includes the statements copied below from the Brian Toohey, the representative of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturing association of America.

He is saying that what the US pharmaceutical industry wants is for full access to US drugs and for the UK Health Service to pay more for them as they are depressing prices through their purchasing power and aren't paying a premium for "innovation" which they should be for a US UK trade agreement.

I can hardly wait.

"...First, negotiations should build on common ground to ensure transparency and due process for approving, pricing, and reimbursing pharmaceuticals. In the U.K., the government is a primary payer for medicines and, in effect, dictates prices. This dominant position often results in the U.K. failing to appropriately recognize the value of innovation in its pricing reimbursement systems, and, instead, engage in actions that distort markets and artificially depress prices. With these concerns in mind, PhRMA welcomes the administration's continued focus on the problem of advanced economies undervaluing innovative medicines. These provide an important opportunity, consistent with TPA, to ensure government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent, non discriminatory, and provide procedural fairness and full market access for U.S. products, which includes the setting of reimbursement amount on competitive market-derived pricing, or an equivalent process, such as one that appropriately recognized the value of an innovative product...."


 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Jun 19 9.03am

Originally posted by Aray

Once we leave we have a lovely trade deal coming from the Yanks! Yay.

This web page is from the US Govt Office of the US Trade Representative includes a public hearing on the objectives

[Link]

Link to panel discussion: [Link]

Page 268 of the PDF of the panel discussion includes the statements copied below from the Brian Toohey, the representative of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturing association of America.

He is saying that what the US pharmaceutical industry wants is for full access to US drugs and for the UK Health Service to pay more for them as they are depressing prices through their purchasing power and aren't paying a premium for "innovation" which they should be for a US UK trade agreement.

I can hardly wait.

"...First, negotiations should build on common ground to ensure transparency and due process for approving, pricing, and reimbursing pharmaceuticals. In the U.K., the government is a primary payer for medicines and, in effect, dictates prices. This dominant position often results in the U.K. failing to appropriately recognize the value of innovation in its pricing reimbursement systems, and, instead, engage in actions that distort markets and artificially depress prices. With these concerns in mind, PhRMA welcomes the administration's continued focus on the problem of advanced economies undervaluing innovative medicines. These provide an important opportunity, consistent with TPA, to ensure government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent, non discriminatory, and provide procedural fairness and full market access for U.S. products, which includes the setting of reimbursement amount on competitive market-derived pricing, or an equivalent process, such as one that appropriately recognized the value of an innovative product...."


It's their negotiating position or wish list. We don't have to sign a trade deal if it is bad.

 


One more point

Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Jun 19 9.30am

[quote=Stirlingsays;3445332


Oh and the majority of people were happier in the 50s, women especially.......Too much Social liberalism has quite literally fecked people in the arse.


Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jun 2019 2.26pm)

Really? But everything was in black and white. Got a link?

 

dannyboy1978 Flag 05 Jun 19 9.33am

Originally posted by Aray

Once we leave we have a lovely trade deal coming from the Yanks! Yay.

This web page is from the US Govt Office of the US Trade Representative includes a public hearing on the objectives

[Link]

Link to panel discussion: [Link]

Page 268 of the PDF of the panel discussion includes the statements copied below from the Brian Toohey, the representative of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturing association of America.

He is saying that what the US pharmaceutical industry wants is for full access to US drugs and for the UK Health Service to pay more for them as they are depressing prices through their purchasing power and aren't paying a premium for "innovation" which they should be for a US UK trade agreement.

I can hardly wait.

"...First, negotiations should build on common ground to ensure transparency and due process for approving, pricing, and reimbursing pharmaceuticals. In the U.K., the government is a primary payer for medicines and, in effect, dictates prices. This dominant position often results in the U.K. failing to appropriately recognize the value of innovation in its pricing reimbursement systems, and, instead, engage in actions that distort markets and artificially depress prices. With these concerns in mind, PhRMA welcomes the administration's continued focus on the problem of advanced economies undervaluing innovative medicines. These provide an important opportunity, consistent with TPA, to ensure government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent, non discriminatory, and provide procedural fairness and full market access for U.S. products, which includes the setting of reimbursement amount on competitive market-derived pricing, or an equivalent process, such as one that appropriately recognized the value of an innovative product...."


So why arnt the left out protesting now.
[Link]

 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Jun 19 9.38am

Originally posted by Badger11

It's their negotiating position or wish list. We don't have to sign a trade deal if it is bad.

We are being backed into a corner. We will be desperate for markets post Brexit. My old employer very clearly intended and intends to subsume the most lucrative elements of the NHS.

In addition there is no doubt we will be forced to accept US meat. A race to the bottom. Americans always believe the American way is best and the sooner we simply accept that and become one of its States the better. Ot maybe four of its States.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 05 Jun 19 9.40am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Really? But everything was in black and white. Got a link?

I provided one originally and the research on the long term declining happiness levels of women is out there.

The more feminism and social liberalism has been pushed the less happy the majority of women have become. The real breakthroughs and improvements within society have been technological.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jun 2019 9.40am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 05 Jun 19 9.52am

Reminds me of one of Micky Flanagan’s first 2 stand up DVD’s (his 3rd was just gratuitous swearing).

‘My wife was sat with me one night and said ‘I don’t like my job anymore. Shall we have a baby?’’ Ha Ha.

 


COYP

Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Jun 19 10.06am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978


So why arnt the left out protesting now.

It seems that the left only protest when it isn't raining

 

Midlands Eagle Flag 05 Jun 19 10.20am

Originally posted by Mapletree


In addition there is no doubt we will be forced to accept US meat. A race to the bottom.

There are a number of articles available about American farming methods but they all seem to be written by vested interests so it's difficult to know what's true and what isn't.

EU and UK studies quote a high level of bacteria in a significant proportion of American chickens but fail to mention that high levels of bacteria have also been found in British chickens removed from supermarket shelves and tested.

In the final analysis if the purchase of American meat forms part of our trade deal the supermarkets and processed food manufacturers don't actually have to buy it and even if they do the consumers can always leave it on the supermarket shelves

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 05 Jun 19 10.38am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

And you sir, are too thick to understand the following:

Parliament will not sanction a no deal exit on their own
No one wants another extension, not least the EU

Therefore there is only one way out of this, another vote. If you really want to crash out of the EU overnight, it would have to be voted on because parliament are not going to do that.


'Crash out' again. Well done. More points.

You can have your referendum on how we leave but there can be no remain option.


 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 05 Jun 19 11.31am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

There are a number of articles available about American farming methods but they all seem to be written by vested interests so it's difficult to know what's true and what isn't.

EU and UK studies quote a high level of bacteria in a significant proportion of American chickens but fail to mention that high levels of bacteria have also been found in British chickens removed from supermarket shelves and tested.

In the final analysis if the purchase of American meat forms part of our trade deal the supermarkets and processed food manufacturers don't actually have to buy it and even if they do the consumers can always leave it on the supermarket shelves

I have given you the facts on this before

Look at the types of bacteria and the numbers of serious infections. This is a black and white issue

In addition, farming methods are miles better in the UK and EU than in the US

US topsoil degradation is far more advanced than in the UK. Reliability of supply will fast become a problem once we emasculate our indigenous industry.

But hey, what do I know?

 

cpfc_chap Flag koh samui 05 Jun 19 11.57am

Originally posted by Mapletree

We are being backed into a corner. We will be desperate for markets post Brexit. My old employer very clearly intended and intends to subsume the most lucrative elements of the NHS.

In addition there is no doubt we will be forced to accept US meat. A race to the bottom. Americans always believe the American way is best and the sooner we simply accept that and become one of its States the better. Ot maybe four of its States.

Do you know our drinking water is chlorinated just like our salads.

When was the last time the U.S had foot and mouth, MAD cow disease or any other major issues with there meats?

However I dare say you'd be able to choose what meat you put in your trolley!

 

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