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The Election Thread
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  SW19 CPFC  Addiscombe West 13 Dec 19 12.03pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
A question worthy of an answer. To be honest, at this precise moment all I want is one less star on that s***ty flag. It is a start. And whilst not the biggest fan of the Johnson WA, it at least moves it forward. I am actually not that happy with the size of the win last night. Would have happily settled for a much small majority because it might have reined Johnson in and allowed the ERG to hold him to account more. My ideal outcome would have been a hung Parliament with the Brexit Party holding the keys to a majority so we all have our disapointments. Ideally I want a Canada style free trade agreement. Not overly bothered about freedom of movement for reasons I have already expounded on before but I want us free of any legislative powers held outside of the Uk. Happy for the EU to sell us what they want, as long as it is reciprocated and even willing to see certain products given favourable status, ideally for Ireland, but ultimately ALL power back in Westminster. But we will see. Today I am chuffed. Tomorrow....lets see. You have avoided the main points, but a fair answer to the last paragraph. I'm not sure how anyone, even as a leaver, can be 'chuffed' at the state of this. 'Clearer of mind' might be more appropriate, with the sauron issue now sort of out of the way. Maybe now partisans on both sides can actually start looking at the bigger picture as well.
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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| Stirlingsays 13 Dec 19 12.03pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Nope As Blair said at the time, there was no requirement to agree. There was a reason the law was changed so that there had to be a majority in favour of snap elections. It was absolutely clear at the time that the best thing to do for the Labour Party was to sit on their hands Yep, but it would be completely immoral and just continue a zombie government at odds with most of the voters. Would you not criticise the Tories for carrying out policies that only favoured their party rather than what the country wanted? The election showed that the state of affairs in parliament was a disfigurement. Like I said a while back the best option for remainers was to back May's deal....but they wanted to bet it all on black. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2019 12.06pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 13 Dec 19 12.04pm |
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The north remembers.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 19 12.12pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
BREAKING: Its all kicking off on GMTV. Its everyone against a Labour loon who still states 'Labour's policies are incredibly popular.' 👉Even after Labour just got the biggest beating of their life 🤣🤣🤣 [Link] This was going on last night on TV by what appeared to be momentum supporters. Essentially they are throwing Corbyn under the bus and blaming Brexit (up to this point I agree)then they spoil it by saying their policies are popular. Well yeah with some people I have no doubt they are wildly popular of course if you look through the correct end of the telescope ...
One more point |
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| Mapletree Croydon 13 Dec 19 12.13pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, but it would be completely immoral and just continue a zombie government at odds with most of the voters. Would you not criticise the Tories for carrying out policies that only favoured their party rather than what the country wanted? The election showed that the state of affairs in parliament was a disfigurement. Like I said a while back the best option for remainers was to back May's deal....but they wanted to bet it all on black. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2019 12.06pm) But what happened was there was a one issue election. I don't ever remember such a thing before. Better for them to have forced a referendum instead.
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| Stirlingsays 13 Dec 19 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
Let's not pretend that there are no morons on the leave side. Fairly equal I'd say there. The fact that people put Brexit above real issues simply to make a point is no cause for celebration. While one democratic decision has/will begin to be upheld (in what manner, who knows) and rightly so, actual issues have been forgotten about and sidelined at the expense of many. The next five years will play out very badly for a lot of people, and certainly not just those on the side of 'remain'. Have your cake while you can. You might not be around it eat it all. Being within the EU also went 'very badly' for many people as well. The political direction the EU has taken for the last forty years had no mandate and centralised power always suffers the further away the affected are. Not everything is financial. You have already said on here that you are prepared to lose money (in taxes) for what you believe in....For many people, this is the same. Democracy won here. Voters can kick Boris out in five years if they want.....this was their only opportunity with the EU....and it's a salient point. They saw how the establishment had treated the 2016 vote. This was the only opportunity they were going to get. They knew that the establishment would never give them that opportunity again. No one is in any doubt that this fight continues.....but one thing is sure, Brexit is happening. 'Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.' (Churchill)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 13 Dec 19 12.52pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
But what happened was there was a one issue election. I don't ever remember such a thing before. Better for them to have forced a referendum instead. Heath 1974 "who runs the country me or the trade union" . Actually Ted it's the union barons.
One more point |
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| Stirlingsays 13 Dec 19 12.58pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
But what happened was there was a one issue election. I don't ever remember such a thing before. Better for them to have forced a referendum instead. Again, that would have been immoral. You wouldn't have said, 'but what kind of remain, lets have another' if remain had won in 2016. It's transparent Maple. Johnson has been given a large majority and with that he has a mandate to get Brexit done. Democracy won.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Invalid user 2019 13 Dec 19 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
This was going on last night on TV by what appeared to be momentum supporters. Essentially they are throwing Corbyn under the bus and blaming Brexit (up to this point I agree)then they spoil it by saying their policies are popular. Well yeah with some people I have no doubt they are wildly popular of course if you look through the correct end of the telescope ... I know she's getting yelled at but to be honest I don't disagree. Their position in the Brexit debate damaged the party badly, and the perception of Jeremy Corbyn was terrible. That was part of their problem really. There were such fundamental problems that most people won't have even bothered considering the policies one way or the other. With that in mind, I do think the outcome is a remedy to this neverending gridlock we've been experiencing, and also of one issue politics. If the conservatives succeeds over the next few years the success is all down to them, if they fail, then the failure in down to them too. The majority is so massive that there are no longer any road blocks.
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Dec 19 1.09pm |
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Rarely do I go on the BBS, but stuck my head through the door. Marvelous stuff going on, glorious!!!!!
Pro USA & Israel |
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Dec 19 1.19pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Rarely do I go on the BBS, but stuck my head through the door. Marvelous stuff going on, glorious!!!!! Voyeuristic bender
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jeeagles  13 Dec 19 1.47pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
This result isn't the success of the right, it's the failure of the left. The warning signs were there, but you didn't listen. I was out with some members of a Devon branch of the Labour Party on Saturday. The were all university educated campaign socialists from middle class backgrounds. Pandora Braithwaite types who's parents can support them avoid getting a real job but with much more extreme ideological left leaning views. One of them was the local leader of momentum. She said "she didn't see the point in the Labour Party if it wasn't socailist". I tried to point out that I didn't see the point in a party that doesn't win elections - but got shouted down and sneared at for my moderate, pragmatic views. This is the grip the Labour Party is in. Controlled by a bunch of nutters who are out of touch with their core voters and spend their time looking for new ways to be outraged, criticising Israel, the rich, trump Brexit whilst not considering what the people actually want. They do not listen to anyone and cannot be told. Labour's fall from power is staggering. They looked invincible from 1997 to around 2006. They seemed to have Galloway, Livingstone, Corbyn under control, and a party that could keep out the Tories. The lack of control over spending, the banks and housing market led to austerity, and the public still haven't forgiven them. Going further left wont work. Handing the party over to Gordon Brown because it was his turn to be PM showed contempt for the electorate. Similar to the situation with Hillary Clinton standing for president. The Union's voting in Red Ed over David Milliband probably cost them the 2015 election, or at least sacrificed a majority, which allowed the referendum to happen. Corbyn should have been removed after standing for remain in the referendum. This created irreconcilable differences between the party and the core vote. The Tories eventually discoved with May that Brexit is unavoidable and a Brexiteer is needed to deliver it. He stood against the crazies Tory manifesto imaginable in 2017. Lost, but he and his supporters are so deluded they claimed it as a win. Got hammered in the EU election, but diverted attention onto the Tories (who were smart enough to change their leader). He's been completely outmanoeuvred by Boris. He though he could oust Boris as PM in days. Instead, he's just shown himself to be a blocker (typical of unionist civil servants) and has been destroyed. Yet what I read today, he still hasn't had the decency to fully stand down. Brexit will be hammered through now, and the Tories have extended their time in Government with a much stronger mandate. He's possibly the worst Labour leader of all time. Not sure how the party can recover.
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cryrst  The garden of England 13 Dec 19 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
a real issue, yes. Certainly not the real issue, unless you are severely partisan and blinkered. Which would certainly not surprise me. But not one to be elevated above all the others at no expense. I agree that obfuscation has exacerbated the whole thing and led to a second election effectively playing the role of a second referendum, but if you can't see the stupidity in ignoring all other issues that should be on the table when deciding your vote simply to vote on one, then you are also 'stupid beyond redemption'. Simple messages win elections. Simpletons win elections. Labour, or whoever is to provide credible opposition need to take note. Not a new thing there. I hate the phrase but for a lot of these people, who are nowhere near high earning or by any measure 'secure' they are turkeys voting for christmas (providing Boris doesn't make a hard move to the centre, which is certainly possible).
Take brexit out of it as you feel that was the one issue.
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| Spiderman Horsham 13 Dec 19 1.58pm |
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Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE
BREAKING: Its all kicking off on GMTV. Its everyone against a Labour loon who still states 'Labour's policies are incredibly popular.' 👉Even after Labour just got the biggest beating of their life 🤣🤣🤣 [Link] GMB actually but saw this. She works for the New Statesman and was completely deluded, "Labour's policies were very popular with the public!" WTF.
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| Mapletree Croydon 13 Dec 19 1.59pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Again, that would have been immoral. You wouldn't have said, 'but what kind of remain, lets have another' if remain had won in 2016. It's transparent Maple. Johnson has been given a large majority and with that he has a mandate to get Brexit done. Democracy won. No it wouldn't No I wouldn't, Remain = the status quo, didn't need defining Yes, given it's the only thing he was told that he was allowed to say for the past month I think we all get that
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Dec 19 2.01pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
GMB actually but saw this. She works for the New Statesman and was completely deluded, "Labour's policies were very popular with the public!" WTF. Dale is a very balanced former tory but still a tory supporter, but he’ll criticise anyone when required. A likeable presenter unless you’re a socialist.
COYP |
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| chris123 hove actually 13 Dec 19 2.01pm |
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Originally posted by SW19 CPFC
And therein lies the point. You've put that above all else. You're also not reading what I'm writing. I didn't vote based on one issue in this election. If you did, then as you have confirmed you are partisan, and blinkered. It's simple logic. This election is, by the very nature of what an election decides and entails, about more than just Brexit. The reason for it being might well be but you're not just voting on leaving, you're voting on policy. You and your ilk have chosen to use it as a second referendum. That's fine, but what I am saying, quite credibly, is that there are so many other domestic issues that have been sidelined or, frankly, forgotten about in the haste and panic to ratify that real issues have not been debated enough, thought about enough, or even properly considered enough. And that's by MPs, not just the electorate. I did not vote based on over simplified 'leave' or 'remain' urges. I voted after consideration of other issues both locally and nationally that will ultimately be of far more importance over the next five years than Brexit. And for the record – had more people done so, then when it comes to matters of domestic policy, law and social bills in the house of commons then there would be less chance of the usual people getting screwed over (again providing Boris does not make his move to the centre, which could be 50/50, who knows). Finally, does any form of Brexit now satiate you? Even if it ends up being soft and close to Labours intentions? Are we at that point of desperation now where previously staunch leavers will now take anything they can? An interesting one especially if you voted just on Brexit. Your vote doesn't change the fact that that the last parliament was as rotten as I can remember.
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| SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 13 Dec 19 2.08pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Take brexit out of it as you feel that was the one issue. Brexit should form part of it. Not all of it. RETURN
Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons. |
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