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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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Invalid user 2019 Flag 07 Jul 19 10.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Whether or not the focus upon 'belonging' is helpful or not seems incredibly quaint to me. Like you regard it as purely an academic question instead of one that I regard as at the core of this country's future.

I would restate, your line of reasoning is just a repeating of the same policies that have managed to place us into where we are now.

Look at where we are from what we were told would happen about integration and assimilation...the higher murder and crime rates and the demographic transformation.....it's chalk and cheese from what people were told to expect. Only the misguided or even worse those blissfully ignorant think that by continuing with a failed strategy that it's eventually just going to come good.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Jul 2019 8.25pm)

Well, no because I don't have a policy of agreeing with or in the least bit encouraging mass immigration, so none of this has anything to do with me. I have at times voted solely due to immigration policy.


My interest is in countering the kind of tribal hysteria that's on the both ends of the political spectrum. Partly fueled by perfectly legitimate concerns, and partly because nuance doesn't rate or sell online. It isn't valued, so people buy into the comforting 'off the shelf' beliefs and terminologies that are of limited use in real life interactions. It's certainly what you've done. So yes, from that perspective I would be perfectly fine with a pause of there being 'zero' immigration or right of citizenship for anyone for years on end. None. So effectively the current Japanese approach. Then from there basing requirements on vacancies we need filled, based on an individuals skillset and character. Clearly mass immigration doesn't come without a cost and I don't feel anyone aside from corporations are particularly 'missing out' if we swerve another couple of million people comes here over the next 5 years.

Your approach however will turn people away from the outcomes you desire, not towards them. Slurs, and negative fixations on genetics, race and sexualities that make up the average family and friend group.. Such a 'my way or the highway' attitude to life is detached from the average persons understanding of how to get along with others. Perhaps you don't have a group to get along with as such and so feel no need to value cooperation. I don't know. It's not my concern.

If you're looking for gather support for a view, rather than achieve the opposite, it would surely be better to simply get behind messages that can narrowly have majority support .. Talk of needing to limit numbers due to issues with assimilation.. the housing crisis.. the need to support the younger generations... lack of resources to pick up the responsibility to teach people entirely new language.. lack of jobs for those already here.. a strained health care system.. and vote accordingly, which I would argue people are doing more now anyway. That can gain majority support.

Countless people hold those views, but most they certainly don't behave towards and perceive groups the way you elect to. But yeah, the consequences for those around you is for them to navigate. Good luck to 'em.


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 10.39pm)

 

ChrisGC Flag Wantage 07 Jul 19 10.49pm

Originally posted by dollardays

You were angry about Stormzy's use of homophobic language the other day. Fine now though of course. Opportunist.

Shoo.


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 10.29pm)

Since when did you implying someone's a racist have anything to do with Stomrzy acting the arse?

You're really not very good at back tracking.

 

Invalid user 2019 Flag 07 Jul 19 10.53pm

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Since when did you implying someone's a racist have anything to do with Stomrzy acting the arse?

You're really not very good at back tracking.

I stated a poster had used a homophobic slur and that it's no better in my mind than using a racist one.

You attacked Stormzy the other day due to using the very same slur. Of course none of that matters to you now does it because this is an opportunity. An in.

If the shoe fits.

I won't be replying to you again.


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 10.54pm)

 

Stirlingsays Flag 07 Jul 19 10.54pm

I'll visit the thread tomorrow Wordy and look at your latest.....I'm a bit old man tired and I've got to head off and do some hating on people....I'm sure you understand.

This hate don't spread itself.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Invalid user 2019 Flag 07 Jul 19 11.00pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'll visit the thread tomorrow Wordy and look at your latest.....I'm a bit old man tired and I've got to head off and do some hating on people....I'm sure you understand.

This hate don't spread itself.

There will be nothing to see.

It's a waste of time. I'll save myself the hassle and stick to General, Palace and Boxing threads from now on. A more sane environment. Maybe I'll persuade Novella writing Wisbech to stop posting in Politics too. That should free up about two hours for both of you each day. Get that group polarisation dialled up to eleven. Have fun!


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 11.28pm)

 

ChrisGC Flag Wantage 07 Jul 19 11.39pm

Originally posted by dollardays

I stated a poster had used a homophobic slur and that it's no better in my mind than using a racist one.

You attacked Stormzy the other day due to using the very same slur. Of course none of that matters to you now does it because this is an opportunity. An in.

If the shoe fits.

I won't be replying to you again.


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 10.54pm)

Nope, I didn't refer to any of that nonsense. You said he's the sort of bloke who tells n-word jokes.

A shameful attempt to brush it over by bringing up the fact that Stormzy is a bigot. Got nothing to do with the price of potatoes and you know it.

Classic (and obvious) deflection.

 

ChrisGC Flag Wantage 07 Jul 19 11.42pm

Originally posted by dollardays

There will be nothing to see.

It's a waste of time. I'll save myself the hassle and stick to General, Palace and Boxing threads from now on. A more sane environment. Maybe I'll persuade Novella writing Wisbech to stop posting in Politics too. That should free up about two hours for both of you each day. Get that group polarisation dialled up to eleven. Have fun!


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 11.28pm)

You've made a right mug of yourself lol superb end to a Sunday night.

 

Invalid user 2019 Flag 08 Jul 19 3.08am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

Nope, I didn't refer to any of that nonsense. You said he's the sort of bloke who tells n-word jokes.

A shameful attempt to brush it over by bringing up the fact that Stormzy is a bigot. Got nothing to do with the price of potatoes and you know it.

Classic (and obvious) deflection.

Still going then?

For clarification -

The poster thought it absolutely fine to call gay people degenerate f@gs on here as part of 'a joke', and that's no different in my book to calling a black person the n word. He farcically decreed the word only a 'slight slur' and started piping up about censorship at the very idea that I would question use of the term. So it's fine if someone reels off the n word if they decide it's just a 'slight slur' is it? So yes he is very much that kind of person. If people use slurs to describe groups, along racial, sexual or disability lines and so on don't expect to see me cheering about it.

You criticised this language when a rapper was doing it, calling it "deeply hateful slurs against gays" and yet you don't care about that when there's an opportunity to have a pop. True to form.

Anyway, stop communicating with me. On here and via DM. Not interested.

Edited by dollardays (08 Jul 2019 5.02am)

 

Invalid user 2019 Flag 08 Jul 19 3.10am

Originally posted by ChrisGC

You've made a right mug of yourself lol superb end to a Sunday night.

Again, stop communicating with me. On here and via DM. Not interested.


 

Midlands Eagle Flag 08 Jul 19 5.41am

Please have a thought for the mods that have to read all this s***.

Can we just stick to Brexit please

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jul 19 9.08am

Back to Brexit it appears that Project Fear was correct all along well at least about one thing.

Unemployment down and wages up.

[Link]

PS
I worked at M&S when Stuart Rose was boss (2007-10). I do not understand why the city lauded him he stuffed his wallet yet the company did not improve under him.

 


One more point

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Jul 19 11.14am

Originally posted by dollardays

There will be nothing to see.

It's a waste of time. I'll save myself the hassle and stick to General, Palace and Boxing threads from now on. A more sane environment. Maybe I'll persuade Novella writing Wisbech to stop posting in Politics too. That should free up about two hours for both of you each day. Get that group polarisation dialled up to eleven. Have fun!

Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 11.28pm)

Well, that's a shame if that's what you want to do.

While I have significant disagreements with you and regard your argumentation and attributed motivations as frequently being over extensions and hence in bad faith I do recognise your intelligence and some sense of you....trying to 'square the circle' with these arguments...which is more than some do.

Also you have humour....even if it has to be politically correct in your book....or at least more 'politically correct' for select identity groups.

I think you should stay and comment and challenge worldviews where you see flaws in them, which is no different to what I do. I may learn something from you....all ideas should be questioned and poked at for flaws....yours and mine and everyone's.

It would however be nice if you could stop with the fainting fits everytime something sets off your PC sensor.....it's a politics forum, not daytime TV.

Put your feet up, chill out and have a fag or something.

But if it's beyond the pale for you, fair enough....you have a point about grumpy sados spending too much time ranting at uncontrollables......(though that's no different to commentary on Palace talk or indeed anything external to us).

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jul 2019 11.23am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Sportyteacher Flag London 08 Jul 19 11.20am

A pro-Brexit journalist held back evidence of links between Russia and the Brexit campaign while playing down so-called conspiracy theories on TV:

[Link]

Not the stuff of 'remoaners' but explosive if true.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Jul 19 11.21am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Please have a thought for the mods that have to read all this s***.

Can we just stick to Brexit please


Apologies.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jul 19 12.21pm

Project Fear is nothing new. Listen to this superb speech by Peter Shore in 1975 just days before the referendum.

A stirring speech which is unerringly accurate.

[Link]

 


One more point

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Jul 19 12.35pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Project Fear is nothing new. Listen to this superb speech by Peter Shore in 1975 just days before the referendum.

A stirring speech which is unerringly accurate.

[Link]


When Labour had speakers who didn't send you to sleep.....and also when they were the anti EU voice.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Jul 19 1.36pm

Originally posted by dollardays

There will be nothing to see.

It's a waste of time. I'll save myself the hassle and stick to General, Palace and Boxing threads from now on. A more sane environment. Maybe I'll persuade Novella writing Wisbech to stop posting in Politics too. That should free up about two hours for both of you each day. Get that group polarisation dialled up to eleven. Have fun!


Edited by dollardays (07 Jul 2019 11.28pm)

Oh wow, would you?

That would be a great service to humanity.
Could you rope in Maine as well?

 

Maine Eagle Flag USA 08 Jul 19 2.57pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Oh wow, would you?

That would be a great service to humanity.
Could you rope in Maine as well?

Maybe if you stop posting about football, Hrolf, which you literally seem to know nothing about whatsoever!

I am enjoying watching Dominic Grieve this morning, he is one of a group of 30 or 40 Tory MPs who together with the speaker, and other parties, will never allow a no deal exit of the EU to come to pass.

I wonder if Johnson is so barmy as to call an election, lose massive ground to Farage, just in hope of changing the dynamics in the house enough to be able to pass a no deal exit.

Will he destroy the conservative party willfully, all in the name of the precious Brexit?

 


Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Jul 19 3.11pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Maybe if you stop posting about football, Hrolf, which you literally seem to know nothing about whatsoever!

I am enjoying watching Dominic Grieve this morning, he is one of a group of 30 or 40 Tory MPs who together with the speaker, and other parties, will never allow a no deal exit of the EU to come to pass.

I wonder if Johnson is so barmy as to call an election, lose massive ground to Farage, just in hope of changing the dynamics in the house enough to be able to pass a no deal exit.

Will he destroy the conservative party willfully, all in the name of the precious Brexit?


Somehow I don't think Farage is going to play ball with the remainers and oppose Johnson's Tories in a GE.

I'm sure they will meet up and Farage will get some job or some other strategy is taken.

Whatever the case, if Johnson isn't going to use dirty parliamentary tricks or deselect Tory remainer MPs then he has to call an election to change the house voting dynamics.

We will see.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jul 19 4.07pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Somehow I don't think Farage is going to play ball with the remainers and oppose Johnson's Tories in a GE.

I'm sure they will meet up and Farage will get some job or some other strategy is taken.

Whatever the case, if Johnson isn't going to use dirty parliamentary tricks or deselect Tory remainer MPs then he has to call an election to change the house voting dynamics.

We will see.

It may not come to that I can see a way where we Brexit. The no deal Brexit was only blocked by 1 vote, hardly decisive and it will be 6 months on.

The hard core Remainers will not change their vote but there are plenty of MPs who could be persuaded to change their minds.

Option 1. Boris gets the EU to drop the backstop. If this happens the DUP will come on board as will the ERG so the chances of a version of May's deal passing is high.

Option 2. The EU refuses to budge or renegotiate any part of the deal, take it or leave it. Boris goes for a no deal Brexit.

Boris can point out to the waverers that a better deal is not available so rejecting a no deal Brexit no longer makes sense. The ERG and DUP will probably support this the alternative is a GE something Tories and some Labour MPs in marginal seats will not welcome as The Brexit party will target those seats.

6 months ago the hold out for a better deal instead of a no deal kinda made sense. However if the EU keep to their word Corbyn can say he will get a better deal all he wants but meanwhile back on planet earth most MPs will realise it's no deal Brexit or Remain. Self preservation tends to concentrate the mind.

I don't no any more than the rest of you but my gut feel is that Boris will scrap together enough votes to squeeze this through otherwise it's bye bye Tories.


 


One more point

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