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Jeremy Corbyn
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 Willo  South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Jul 16 4.47pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
No one has called you anything/ How about giving a coherent justification for clinging on to the idea that the entire world will disarm and that defending ourselves will no longer be necessary when all the evidence points toward than never happening in the imaginable future. Hrolf I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. It is essential we renew a very important component of our national security for generations to come.In fact it is simply not possible to be certain that no extreme threats will emerge in years to come which threaten us here in the UK.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 18 Jul 16 4.59pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
Hrolf I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. It is essential we renew a very important component of our national security for generations to come.In fact it is simply not possible to be certain that no extreme threats will emerge in years to come which threaten us here in the UK.
The nuclear deterrent has been it's own worst enemy in the sense that it has been so successful that it has bred complacency among the post war population and especially the younger ones, who didn't even really experience the Cold War.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 18 Jul 16 5.05pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
That's not actually an answer. Who are the enemies? MAD still exists. Who is going to bomb the UK if we don't have our own deterrent? I don't recall Spain, Portugal, Canada, Italy et al being threatened with nuclear or conventional attack since the end of the Cold War. They don't have a nuclear option, to the best of my knowledge. I'd argue that spending tens of billions annually on something we may actually no longer need is beyond bonkers. If you believe having nukes buys our seat on the UN Security Council, then that's a different argument. Edited by Mr_Gristle (18 Jul 2016 1.33pm) I think you've defeated your opinion right there.
COYP |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Jul 16 5.05pm |
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Originally posted by topcat
Good time to watch PM Jim Hacker and Cabinet Secretary Humphrey Appleby discussing this subject 30 years ago Oh well, that is where we have been going wrong. We must base our entire military strategy on an old satirical TV show.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 18 Jul 16 5.16pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Oh well, that is where we have been going wrong. We must base our entire military strategy on an old satirical TV show. 2:00 mins in nails it.
COYP |
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 18 Jul 16 5.24pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Please answer sensibly or not at all thank you. Really you are a c**t etc etc please refrain As far as I can see he is the only one answering sensibly, whereas your retorts are idealistic Mung bean munching, hemp wearing, free trade boll1cks. As for the C??t comment I think "pot calling Kettle" suits best.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 18 Jul 16 5.55pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I understand the basis of the counter argument and I accept that Trident itself is in flexible and needs updating but are you really telling me that in the event of a nuclear stand off, you would rely on other friendly nations to protect us? I harbour no illusions about the likelihood of global disarmament. However, I simply cannot see a scenario in which a nuclear armed state would directly threaten the UK whilst it remained in NATO. None whatsoever. Non state actors acquiring nuclear access isn't in scope as they wouldn't care about retaliation. In my view, there's no military reason for us to spend all that money.
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Jul 16 6.29pm |
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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle
I harbour no illusions about the likelihood of global disarmament. However, I simply cannot see a scenario in which a nuclear armed state would directly threaten the UK whilst it remained in NATO. None whatsoever. Non state actors acquiring nuclear access isn't in scope as they wouldn't care about retaliation. In my view, there's no military reason for us to spend all that money. Aside from a nuclear threat, we are also less likely to be threatened with a conventional attack if we have nukes. As I said, do you want to trust other NATO members to defend us? I am much happier knowing that we can annihilate any potential enemy in an end game scenario and not be bargained away by the USA.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Jul 16 6.35pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Aside from a nuclear threat, we are also less likely to be threatened with a conventional attack if we have nukes. As I said, do you want to trust other NATO members to defend us? I am much happier knowing that we can annihilate any potential enemy in an end game scenario and not be bargained away by the USA. Indeed - and it would be an abandonment of Britain's friends when the world is getting more and more dangerous.We simply cannot "Outsource" the responsibility we have for keeping the UK safe from such an attack.
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| elgrande bedford 18 Jul 16 7.03pm |
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Oh the irony.....
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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Attachment: Mr Fenandes  18 Jul 16 10.15pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Oh the irony..... Is this not quite obviously this is deliberately ironic? The media have done a pretty standard job on Corbyn. For as long as time, people have been indoctorined against looking out for their fellow prolitariate and been assured that "the man at the top"/big business is good for us, that we are progressive and we should keep our heads down and "get on with it" and "stop bloody moaning". We've been lied to, we've had so much money stolen from us (the quantitive easing which saw the equivilent of £20,000 for every household in the country end up in the hands of the richest 1% within days) and yet no one bats an eyelid. The Media job on Corbs has all the hallmarks of what happened to Harold Wilson when he pissed off Cecil King cos he didn't the specialist treatment he wanted and had to call the wahhhhmbulance. As a result, f***ed our economy and society because of selfish ambitions. Look it up; it's a fascinating story of media manipulation which was nothing other than treason against this country. Corbyn might be wrong on stuff (I agree with quite a lot of he and McDonnells policies, personally, but can understand why some would be apprehensive), but for f*** sakes, stop saying "unelectable" because it's a s*** argument that you didn't even come up with or can even justify in a legible way. Stop thinking in terms of Labour, Conservative, Left and Right and think individually for yourselves. It's not a crime to be wrong. It's an incredibly liberating feeling to break from the contraints of feeling you have to support everything your political affiliates do or say. Have your own thoughts and policies and support what you think is right, not what some self-interested (probably dead-child phone-hacking) newspaper parrots over to you.
Check out our Croydon-based football comedy series 'Road to F.A. Cup'! |
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| susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Jul 16 9.08am |
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Originally posted by Mr Fenandes
Is this not quite obviously this is deliberately ironic? The media have done a pretty standard job on Corbyn. For as long as time, people have been indoctorined against looking out for their fellow prolitariate and been assured that "the man at the top"/big business is good for us, that we are progressive and we should keep our heads down and "get on with it" and "stop bloody moaning". We've been lied to, we've had so much money stolen from us (the quantitive easing which saw the equivilent of £20,000 for every household in the country end up in the hands of the richest 1% within days) and yet no one bats an eyelid. The Media job on Corbs has all the hallmarks of what happened to Harold Wilson when he pissed off Cecil King cos he didn't the specialist treatment he wanted and had to call the wahhhhmbulance. As a result, f***ed our economy and society because of selfish ambitions. Look it up; it's a fascinating story of media manipulation which was nothing other than treason against this country. Corbyn might be wrong on stuff (I agree with quite a lot of he and McDonnells policies, personally, but can understand why some would be apprehensive), but for f*** sakes, stop saying "unelectable" because it's a s*** argument that you didn't even come up with or can even justify in a legible way. Stop thinking in terms of Labour, Conservative, Left and Right and think individually for yourselves. It's not a crime to be wrong. It's an incredibly liberating feeling to break from the contraints of feeling you have to support everything your political affiliates do or say. Have your own thoughts and policies and support what you think is right, not what some self-interested (probably dead-child phone-hacking) newspaper parrots over to you. Surely by me saying that he is unelectable IS having my own thoughts just as you say ???? Edited by susmik (19 Jul 2016 9.08am)
Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky. |
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 19 Jul 16 9.34am |
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Originally posted by Mr Fenandes
Is this not quite obviously this is deliberately ironic? The media have done a pretty standard job on Corbyn. For as long as time, people have been indoctorined against looking out for their fellow prolitariate and been assured that "the man at the top"/big business is good for us, that we are progressive and we should keep our heads down and "get on with it" and "stop bloody moaning". We've been lied to, we've had so much money stolen from us (the quantitive easing which saw the equivilent of £20,000 for every household in the country end up in the hands of the richest 1% within days) and yet no one bats an eyelid. The Media job on Corbs has all the hallmarks of what happened to Harold Wilson when he pissed off Cecil King cos he didn't the specialist treatment he wanted and had to call the wahhhhmbulance. As a result, f***ed our economy and society because of selfish ambitions. Look it up; it's a fascinating story of media manipulation which was nothing other than treason against this country. Corbyn might be wrong on stuff (I agree with quite a lot of he and McDonnells policies, personally, but can understand why some would be apprehensive), but for f*** sakes, stop saying "unelectable" because it's a s*** argument that you didn't even come up with or can even justify in a legible way. Stop thinking in terms of Labour, Conservative, Left and Right and think individually for yourselves. It's not a crime to be wrong. It's an incredibly liberating feeling to break from the contraints of feeling you have to support everything your political affiliates do or say. Have your own thoughts and policies and support what you think is right, not what some self-interested (probably dead-child phone-hacking) newspaper parrots over to you.
forgetting to sack people Economic advisors resigning [Link]
Corbyn is a Norwegian Blue Parrot
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| chris123 hove actually 19 Jul 16 10.19am |
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Originally posted by Mr Fenandes
Is this not quite obviously this is deliberately ironic? The media have done a pretty standard job on Corbyn. For as long as time, people have been indoctorined against looking out for their fellow prolitariate and been assured that "the man at the top"/big business is good for us, that we are progressive and we should keep our heads down and "get on with it" and "stop bloody moaning". We've been lied to, we've had so much money stolen from us (the quantitive easing which saw the equivilent of £20,000 for every household in the country end up in the hands of the richest 1% within days) and yet no one bats an eyelid. The Media job on Corbs has all the hallmarks of what happened to Harold Wilson when he pissed off Cecil King cos he didn't the specialist treatment he wanted and had to call the wahhhhmbulance. As a result, f***ed our economy and society because of selfish ambitions. Look it up; it's a fascinating story of media manipulation which was nothing other than treason against this country. Corbyn might be wrong on stuff (I agree with quite a lot of he and McDonnells policies, personally, but can understand why some would be apprehensive), but for f*** sakes, stop saying "unelectable" because it's a s*** argument that you didn't even come up with or can even justify in a legible way. Stop thinking in terms of Labour, Conservative, Left and Right and think individually for yourselves. It's not a crime to be wrong. It's an incredibly liberating feeling to break from the contraints of feeling you have to support everything your political affiliates do or say. Have your own thoughts and policies and support what you think is right, not what some self-interested (probably dead-child phone-hacking) newspaper parrots over to you. The first time I heard about Jeremy Corbyn being unelectable was from Peter Mandeleson - so if Labour Grandees are of that view, to repeat it is hardly unreasonable, surely?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jul 16 1.05pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
It really is misplaced idealism to believe that the UK must abandon the ultimate insurance of the UK's nuclear capability.We cannot compromise on our national security when the nuclear threat has increased in an ever increasingly dangerous world.It would be gross irresponsibility to do so and a dereliction of duty. Problem is, that whilst I agree with you, Trident isn't a solution, and its only really a deterrent against Russia. It presents little real capacity for China, North Korea or Iran - not without massive overhaul of the system or adding more submarines. The cheapest option isn't the best, in fact its barely more than a gesture at preserving nuclear capability (which we should probably do). Incidently, Trident didn't ensure MAD, the submarines do not carry sufficient missiles to assure destruction of the soviet union, just to inflict unacceptable civilian casualties.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 19 Jul 16 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Once again yesterday we see that Corbyn is totally unsuitable to be a PM. He predictably voted against a Trident upgrade stating his commitment to peace. It tells you that the man is deluded and completely locked in to his inflexible ideology. How could a cabinet operate with him in charge during a conflict? Its a democracy innit, he's entitled to be against nuclear weapons and committed to nuclear disarmament, even if I disagree with him. The UK hasn't really found itself in any conflicts that it 'needed to be involved in' since the Falklands, and it would be nice to see a Labour leader that isn't a bit of a war monger - As Blair deployed UK military forces more times than any other UK Prime Minister Personally, I wouldn't want him as PM in a conflict, but then the last five or six conflicts the UK has become involved in, its been more as an 'aggressor' party.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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