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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 21 Jun 16 1.51pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Australia seem to be doing all right.

The Australian economy is dangerously struggling
[Link] but I suppose that's another story.

I will be interested to research some of your examples you posed below of manufacturing moved out of the UK with help from the EU, because some of it sounds like completely fabricated (Dyson claim for example seems particularly far fetched given James Dyson has come out as a Brexit supporter, and why would the EU give Dyson money to move outside of the EU?).


Edited by OknotOK (21 Jun 2016 1.55pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 21 Jun 16 1.56pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Australia is underpopulated.

[Link]

and...

The Cerebus-headed monstrosity of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Priti Patel have announced that if Britain chooses to leave the European Union, it will introduce an "Australian-style points system" for migrants and require all new entrants to speak good English. This is presented as a natural consequence of any Leave vote, which should be alarming. That Brexit movie didn't even mention migration once; for months now the Brexiters have been trying to convince us that really it's all about leaving one cloistered continent and opening ourselves up to the whole world, becoming a truly global force, modern and democratic and lit by a kinder, brighter sun – but in the end, it turns out that it was all just about not having to hear foreign languages on the train. We don't need the stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative Brussels bureaucracy; we can introduce a stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative bureaucracy all by ourselves (in fact we already have done for non-EU migrants). After all, what three words conjure up an image of untrammelled human liberty more than "points-based system"?
It's not racist to want a points-based migration system, although you'll notice that nobody ever has to append the 'it's not racist' insistence to things like enjoying a meal with friends or bathing regularly. Similarly, whether it's beer, footwear, or government policy, the phrase "Australian-style" is rarely good news. The points system has been Ukip's official policy for a while now, and its proponents will occasionally defend it by reference to our eccentric upside-down cousins. "Having controls on immigrations isn't racist," they say. "You don't think Australia is racist, do you?" Well, do you?

In fairness, I've never been to Australia; in fact I'm occasionally suspicious that the whole country was made up by some sinister cabal as a test of our gullibility, to see if we'd really accept the idea of a country where there's an awards show called 'the Logies' and the prime minister eats raw, unpeeled onions on camera. But if it exists, then Australia is a country founded on an almost total genocide, in which settlers killed every last living person in Tasmania, and which under the "White Australia Policy" forbade all migration from non-European countries until 1973. This history clashes with the anti-immigration orthodoxies a bit; it's much harder to say "it isn't racist to systematically exterminate an entire continent of its indigenous population" or "it isn't racist to discriminate based on race", although some people would probably give it a shot. But anyway, all that is in the past now.

Except Australia's more recent record is also pretty harrowing. The country maintains a detention centre on the Papuan island of Manus, where refugees and asylum seekers attempting to enter Australia are held indefinitely. The government's stated intention is to resettle the refugees in a third country, but as of last year more have been killed by disease or riots than have been allowed to move on elsewhere. Conditions in Manus are so intolerable that last December 600 refugees, exhausted by their tropical purgatory, signed a letter to the Australian government begging to be allowed to die.
The slow and ongoing tragedy in Manus is not an inevitable consequence of any points-based system. But something like it is likely to result when a government that fundamentally does not value human life, that sees a living person as nothing more that a collection of interchangeable numbers, is allowed to do whatever it wants. A government like Australia's. A government like ours.

[Link]

Australia is UNDER Populated *Correct* The UK is OVER Populated (or certainly close to it)

 


Pro USA & Israel

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Jun 16 2.04pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Australia is underpopulated.

[Link]

and...

The Cerebus-headed monstrosity of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Priti Patel have announced that if Britain chooses to leave the European Union, it will introduce an "Australian-style points system" for migrants and require all new entrants to speak good English. This is presented as a natural consequence of any Leave vote, which should be alarming. That Brexit movie didn't even mention migration once; for months now the Brexiters have been trying to convince us that really it's all about leaving one cloistered continent and opening ourselves up to the whole world, becoming a truly global force, modern and democratic and lit by a kinder, brighter sun – but in the end, it turns out that it was all just about not having to hear foreign languages on the train. We don't need the stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative Brussels bureaucracy; we can introduce a stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative bureaucracy all by ourselves (in fact we already have done for non-EU migrants). After all, what three words conjure up an image of untrammelled human liberty more than "points-based system"?
It's not racist to want a points-based migration system, although you'll notice that nobody ever has to append the 'it's not racist' insistence to things like enjoying a meal with friends or bathing regularly. Similarly, whether it's beer, footwear, or government policy, the phrase "Australian-style" is rarely good news. The points system has been Ukip's official policy for a while now, and its proponents will occasionally defend it by reference to our eccentric upside-down cousins. "Having controls on immigrations isn't racist," they say. "You don't think Australia is racist, do you?" Well, do you?

In fairness, I've never been to Australia; in fact I'm occasionally suspicious that the whole country was made up by some sinister cabal as a test of our gullibility, to see if we'd really accept the idea of a country where there's an awards show called 'the Logies' and the prime minister eats raw, unpeeled onions on camera. But if it exists, then Australia is a country founded on an almost total genocide, in which settlers killed every last living person in Tasmania, and which under the "White Australia Policy" forbade all migration from non-European countries until 1973. This history clashes with the anti-immigration orthodoxies a bit; it's much harder to say "it isn't racist to systematically exterminate an entire continent of its indigenous population" or "it isn't racist to discriminate based on race", although some people would probably give it a shot. But anyway, all that is in the past now.

Except Australia's more recent record is also pretty harrowing. The country maintains a detention centre on the Papuan island of Manus, where refugees and asylum seekers attempting to enter Australia are held indefinitely. The government's stated intention is to resettle the refugees in a third country, but as of last year more have been killed by disease or riots than have been allowed to move on elsewhere. Conditions in Manus are so intolerable that last December 600 refugees, exhausted by their tropical purgatory, signed a letter to the Australian government begging to be allowed to die.
The slow and ongoing tragedy in Manus is not an inevitable consequence of any points-based system. But something like it is likely to result when a government that fundamentally does not value human life, that sees a living person as nothing more that a collection of interchangeable numbers, is allowed to do whatever it wants. A government like Australia's. A government like ours.

[Link]

What on earth has Australia got to do with Britain's inability to cope with sheer numbers?

In case you were not aware the world population is about to go into a sharp upward curve and that means that the demand to come to Europe will go to almost unimaginable levels.
Forget about economies or prejudice, none of that will matter when we run out of water and electricity, the roads are unusable and the country side is full of shanty towns.

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 2.05pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Nick the economist magazine was known when I was in the city (gtanted some years ago) for being called the communist so no I take what they say as I would say believe the mail about immigration figures, i.e. I wouldn't.

However here are some business FACTS.

CADBURY moved to factory in Poland (2011) with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey in 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant (owned by Tata who have stripped our steel industry and emptied the pension fund.
Peugot has closed its Ryton plant and moved to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel(!)At the request of EU with EU grant.
Dyson now in Malaysia with EU grant.
Crown Closures (was Metal Box) gone to Poland with EU grant.
M&S Manufacturing gone to Far East with EU grant.
Gillette gone to Eastern Europe with EU grant.
Hoover factory in Wales moved to Czech Republic and Far East with EU backing.
ICI integrated into Holland's AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK were closed with the loss of 3,500 jobs.
UK airports are owned by the Spanish
Scottish Power is owned by the Spanish
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station is to be built by French company, EDF, (part owned by French Government) and will use cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations.
39% of british invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, mostly in the EU

.

1.the concessions Cameron got are in a range of newspapers, not just the economist.

2. Many of the companies you mention were once in public ownership.They should not have been privatised (by both main parties in the UK) Yes EU rules state that there should be competition, it follows the Neoliberals agenda and is one of the reasons I may vote leave. But don't for one minute think that in or out of the EU whatever government in power here wouldn't have allowed it to happen...

 

Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 21 Jun 16 2.06pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

The situation is unbalanced as virtually all of the political elite is for remain if you look at the newspapers all of the financial press, the economist, the financial times, the liberal dailies, the Guardian, the Independent, the Mirror are for remaining. Murdoch press is slightly skeptical but on the whole is in favour of remaining.

The fear campaign is similar to the Scottish indi campaign. If you remember, fear totally dominated the last two to three weeks.
It is exactly the same tactic that is being followed on the EU referendum campaign.

It's difficult to open a newspaper without reading some fear campaign.

IF BRITAIN LEAVES DISASTER WILL HAPPEN....

I don't have any respect for the remain or Brexit CAMPAIN(s)
The campaign against Sadiq Khan was vicious and racist. It was lead by the Tories. Lead by Cameron and Goldsmith, we learn after that there were big in-fights between Goldsmith and the party, telling him how the campaign was going to run, they did it and lost! How was that any worse than what's going on now?

I'm not with Farrage or Borris but am able to see the bigger picture and not focus on the analysis. I want to see the tactics, like the
Sun Tzu quote: "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat". But made my mind up a long time ago.

And there's the rub. I would guess probably 80% or so if voters had. You may get 5% if people genuinely changing their mind but the majority of people who are there to be influenced were floaters anyway.

As you say both campaigns have been poor but both campaigns have used fear not just remain.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 2.07pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Australia is UNDER Populated *Correct* The UK is OVER Populated (or certainly close to it)

London has only recently reached the population peak it was pre wwi (if I am correct. May have got the date wrong)

 

dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 21 Jun 16 2.14pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Australia is underpopulated.

[Link]

and...

The Cerebus-headed monstrosity of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Priti Patel have announced that if Britain chooses to leave the European Union, it will introduce an "Australian-style points system" for migrants and require all new entrants to speak good English. This is presented as a natural consequence of any Leave vote, which should be alarming. That Brexit movie didn't even mention migration once; for months now the Brexiters have been trying to convince us that really it's all about leaving one cloistered continent and opening ourselves up to the whole world, becoming a truly global force, modern and democratic and lit by a kinder, brighter sun – but in the end, it turns out that it was all just about not having to hear foreign languages on the train. We don't need the stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative Brussels bureaucracy; we can introduce a stifling, bloodless, bean-counting quantitative bureaucracy all by ourselves (in fact we already have done for non-EU migrants). After all, what three words conjure up an image of untrammelled human liberty more than "points-based system"?
It's not racist to want a points-based migration system, although you'll notice that nobody ever has to append the 'it's not racist' insistence to things like enjoying a meal with friends or bathing regularly. Similarly, whether it's beer, footwear, or government policy, the phrase "Australian-style" is rarely good news. The points system has been Ukip's official policy for a while now, and its proponents will occasionally defend it by reference to our eccentric upside-down cousins. "Having controls on immigrations isn't racist," they say. "You don't think Australia is racist, do you?" Well, do you?

In fairness, I've never been to Australia; in fact I'm occasionally suspicious that the whole country was made up by some sinister cabal as a test of our gullibility, to see if we'd really accept the idea of a country where there's an awards show called 'the Logies' and the prime minister eats raw, unpeeled onions on camera. But if it exists, then Australia is a country founded on an almost total genocide, in which settlers killed every last living person in Tasmania, and which under the "White Australia Policy" forbade all migration from non-European countries until 1973. This history clashes with the anti-immigration orthodoxies a bit; it's much harder to say "it isn't racist to systematically exterminate an entire continent of its indigenous population" or "it isn't racist to discriminate based on race", although some people would probably give it a shot. But anyway, all that is in the past now.

Except Australia's more recent record is also pretty harrowing. The country maintains a detention centre on the Papuan island of Manus, where refugees and asylum seekers attempting to enter Australia are held indefinitely. The government's stated intention is to resettle the refugees in a third country, but as of last year more have been killed by disease or riots than have been allowed to move on elsewhere. Conditions in Manus are so intolerable that last December 600 refugees, exhausted by their tropical purgatory, signed a letter to the Australian government begging to be allowed to die.
The slow and ongoing tragedy in Manus is not an inevitable consequence of any points-based system. But something like it is likely to result when a government that fundamentally does not value human life, that sees a living person as nothing more that a collection of interchangeable numbers, is allowed to do whatever it wants. A government like Australia's. A government like ours.

[Link]

that was kind of my point Nick.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Jun 16 2.16pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

London has only recently reached the population peak it was pre wwi (if I am correct. May have got the date wrong)

Oh brother.

That, as I'm sure you know, is because the population was concentrated more in London until suburbanisation and slum clearance.

You can't take London in isolation. Britain will be one big conurbation of s*** holes at the current rate.

 

dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 21 Jun 16 2.24pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

London has only recently reached the population peak it was pre wwi (if I am correct. May have got the date wrong)

I'm tempted to say so what ! but I will refrain and just say that may be the case, but we had a big war that killed millions of man folk just after, and before hand if you know your history, you will know that life expectancy back then was 47 for a man and only 50 for a women, infant mortality was through the roof and actually worse than it was in the early 1800's.

Typhoid TB Flu Cholera Diphtheria measles and whopping cough where all killers, where as in modern Britain today they are not.

London back then was a diseased ridden cesspit, and without modern medication it will be again I fear.

A look at West Croydon will show you the future to come

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 21 Jun 16 2.29pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

1.the concessions Cameron got are in a range of newspapers, not just the economist.

2. Many of the companies you mention were once in public ownership.They should not have been privatised (by both main parties in the UK) Yes EU rules state that there should be competition, it follows the Neoliberals agenda and is one of the reasons I may vote leave. But don't for one minute think that in or out of the EU whatever government in power here wouldn't have allowed it to happen...

You will not be voting leave, everybody knows it and you know it.

 


VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

npn Flag Crowborough 21 Jun 16 2.42pm

I'm back up in the air

I have my postal vote filled in with an OUT, but now not sure whether I'll post it or abstain. It won't be an IN, certainly, but it will be an OUT or nothing at all. The more I think about it the more I think I'm just not qualified to make the call (but sadly the lying toe-rags on both sides aren't either).

Either way I've got to be at work at 7:30 Friday morning to cope with the anticipated large scale stock trading whatever the result

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 2.43pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

You will not be voting leave, everybody knows it and you know it.

Not another one! -.-'

 

DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 21 Jun 16 2.48pm

The VOTE IN will win and is engineered to do so. A film called "The Killing Of Tony Blair" will be released in July, lots to do with this and will prove what I'm saying. Keep dreaming people and don't lose heart when remain win as it's designed that way!

Edited by DivingIsNotGood (21 Jun 2016 2.51pm)

 


VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

Part Time James Flag 21 Jun 16 2.59pm

Originally posted by npn

I'm back up in the air

I have my postal vote filled in with an OUT, but now not sure whether I'll post it or abstain. It won't be an IN, certainly, but it will be an OUT or nothing at all. The more I think about it the more I think I'm just not qualified to make the call (but sadly the lying toe-rags on both sides aren't either).

Either way I've got to be at work at 7:30 Friday morning to cope with the anticipated large scale stock trading whatever the result

No one is qualified to vote sadly. If it's just a guilty conscience thing then you can appease yourself that you'll have just cancelled out someone equally unqualified voting "In".


 




nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 3.10pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

No one is qualified to vote sadly. If it's just a guilty conscience thing then you can appease yourself that you'll have just cancelled out someone equally unqualified voting "In".


Is anyone qualified to vote happily?

 

DivingIsNotGood Flag se25 21 Jun 16 3.25pm

The national debt HAS increased significantly under Cameron. It has not been paid but has doubled.
It's increased because the government has to include the debt from RBS and Lloyds debt. The deficit has gone up surprisingly because wages have declined.

Income tax has gone down, and we see the core elite, core corporation does not contribute as much as the bottom 99%.

The rich are getting far far richer quicker than ever before while the rest of us are forced feed total bul1sh1t to comply and keep their hamster wheel turning.
It's time to raise, not lower, corporate income taxes.

 


VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Jun 16 3.30pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

The national debt HAS increased significantly under Cameron. It has not been paid but has doubled.
It's increased because the government has to include the debt from RBS and Lloyds debt. The deficit has gone up surprisingly because wages have declined.

Income tax has gone down, and we see the core elite, core corporation does not contribute as much as the bottom 99%.

The rich are getting far far richer quicker than ever before while the rest of us are forced feed total bul1sh1t to comply and keep their hamster wheel turning.
It's time to raise, not lower, corporate income taxes.

I know this. You know this, others know this. But people still vote the Tories in. [Link]

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 21 Jun 16 3.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Oh brother.

That, as I'm sure you know, is because the population was concentrated more in London until suburbanisation and slum clearance.

You can't take London in isolation. Britain will be one big conurbation of s*** holes at the current rate.

CALIFORNIA is calling me louder and louder.

Might keep a Soviet style flat for the odd visit like the ones next to the Caterham Travelodge or a flashier one with neon buttons and shiny mirrors in the lift up to 17 floors like the one and probably more soon to go up in Purley. There's already some opposite Purley station.

They'll be everywhere soon and the young will have what they wanted. An over populated country without room to swing a cat or a lifestyle like their childhoods' after working all week in jobs in big businesses where wages are suppressed and the gap between workers and directors gets wider and wider. Fools.

I'll laugh when any of these leavers moan in years to come. At least they'll know they can go and work in a bar on the continent at the drop of a hat if they wanted or ever intended to. Good luck to them, they're gonna need it.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (21 Jun 2016 3.39pm)

 


COYP

Stuk Flag Top half 21 Jun 16 3.43pm

Originally posted by Kermit8


Try telling that to Britain First types and the less vocal xenophobes. That'll be their main reason for voting 'out: Johnny Foreigner. And they aren't really trying to hide it to be fair.

And yes they are fools and what was Nigel thinking by that poster and sucking up to such people?

Still, if they are on the winning team they'll be fools no more.

The proportion of those sort of people, out of the total that wish to leave will be a tiny, tiny number.

Stop pandering or aiming your posts at the morons. In this thread you have been, almost, as sad as the official campaigns.

 


Optimistic as ever

Lyons550 Flag Shirley 21 Jun 16 3.49pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

London has only recently reached the population peak it was pre wwi (if I am correct. May have got the date wrong)

We're already one of the most densely populated places in the EU...and its not as if we can add land!

[Link]

 


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