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Jeremy Corbyn
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nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 27 Jul 16 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by OldFella
Corbyn and Gusset, the dream ticket. Not many votes, but some great laughs. Last year's leadership election was anti austerity vs austerity lite vs austerity. Corbyn won hands down. Look at what Owens pledges were, anti austerity. Both sides of the leadership contest this time are anti austerity pro investment.
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  Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 16 3.37pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's not who they're supposed to represent though. Its like being a member of a club, that refuses to let you in, because the non-members object to you. Now I agree, that an MP must also represent their constituents. But of course the problem Labour has had is that its lost its membership numbers over the last 15-20 years, something that Corbyn has reversed. I don't think they'll win an election, but, then neither did the last two leaders who the PLP put up and backed. Let me just say that I am delighted that Labour are on a suicide mission. They have been a disastrous party for this country since Harold Wilson.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Jul 16 4.37pm |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
Also a straight answer to the following questions please Nick 1) Do you think it right that Corbyn voted against Labour than David Cameron 2) That he seems to have changed his mind that the Labour leader should face re-election every year 3) Given his previous lack of loyalty to party leaders, he is now threatening deselection to anyone who votes against him? Not sure what the missing word is in the first one. Someone changes mind shocker. The third one isn't actually a question! We should be glad that some mps question their own party's policy surely. Haven't heard about the threats to deselect MP's. Is this a real thing or an out of context comment used to create a false narrative about Corbyn that turns out to be bollocks anyway. We've seen plenty of those 'stories' of late. Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 4.39pm)
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| Stuk Top half 27 Jul 16 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Not sure what the missing word is in the first one. Someone changes mind shocker. The third one isn't actually a question! We should be glad that some mps question their own party's policy surely. Haven't heard about the threats to deselect MP's. Is this a real thing or an out of context comment used to create a false narrative about Corbyn that turns out to be bollocks anyway. We've seen plenty of those 'stories' of late. Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 4.39pm) I'd guess it is "more".
Optimistic as ever |
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| Stuk Top half 27 Jul 16 5.06pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Not sure what the missing word is in the first one. Someone changes mind shocker. The third one isn't actually a question! We should be glad that some mps question their own party's policy surely. Haven't heard about the threats to deselect MP's. Is this a real thing or an out of context comment used to create a false narrative about Corbyn that turns out to be bollocks anyway. We've seen plenty of those 'stories' of late. Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 4.39pm) Are you joking?
Optimistic as ever |
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| Stuk Top half 27 Jul 16 8.16pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
That's not deselection. That's putting them against other would be candidates selected by individual CLP's. Far too often, mp's have gained their position from being given safe constituencies even though they might never have been there before! You're not that naive or thick. Mandatory re-selection is the same as deselection. It's not about living in their constituencies, it's about getting rid of MPs in the labour party that oppose him. Which is the vast majority of them.
Optimistic as ever |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jul 16 8.42pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
You're not that naive or thick. Mandatory re-selection is the same as deselection. It's not about living in their constituencies, it's about getting rid of MPs in the labour party that oppose him. Which is the vast majority of them. Can we put that to a vote as well?
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 27 Jul 16 9.20pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Not sure what the missing word is in the first one. Someone changes mind shocker. The third one isn't actually a question! We should be glad that some mps question their own party's policy surely. Haven't heard about the threats to deselect MP's. Is this a real thing or an out of context comment used to create a false narrative about Corbyn that turns out to be bollocks anyway. We've seen plenty of those 'stories' of late. Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 4.39pm) Changed his mind? He spent 30 years opposing every single leader. The quotes are easiy enough to find. Suddenly you are betraying the Labour Party if you now vote against the leader. And yes the word missing was more.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Jul 16 9.59pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
You're not that naive or thick. Mandatory re-selection is the same as deselection. It's not about living in their constituencies, it's about getting rid of MPs in the labour party that oppose him. Which is the vast majority of them. The Labour party are a broad church. CLPs represent this. Not all support Corbyn likewise not all support Smith. You are way ahead of where things stand as it is. You make it sound like a purge. Do you have evidence of this other than conjecture from a comment. Corbyn has said that Labour is q grassroots, member lead party. He's putting forward that it should be the rank and file members that decide who they think will best represent them. How undemocratic of him. Fancy letting party members decide rather than dictating from above. Chances are, most mps will be safe if they accept a Corbyn victory and get on with representing constituents and actually doing the job of being an opposition that holds Call me Thatcher and co to account.
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| Stuk Top half 27 Jul 16 10.34pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
The Labour party are a broad church. CLPs represent this. Not all support Corbyn likewise not all support Smith. You are way ahead of where things stand as it is. You make it sound like a purge. Do you have evidence of this other than conjecture from a comment. Corbyn has said that Labour is q grassroots, member lead party. He's putting forward that it should be the rank and file members that decide who they think will best represent them. How undemocratic of him. Fancy letting party members decide rather than dictating from above. Chances are, most mps will be safe if they accept a Corbyn victory and get on with representing constituents and actually doing the job of being an opposition that holds Call me Thatcher and co to account. Labour isn't "a grassroots, member lead party", it is, purported to be, the opposition party to the government. It's deselection, however you want to justify it. Your last comment actually nails it, blackmail.
Optimistic as ever |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Jul 16 10.44pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Labour isn't "a grassroots, member lead party", it is, purported to be, the opposition party to the government. It's deselection, however you want to justify it. Your last comment actually nails it, blackmail. Blackmail? How so, the same is true if Smith wins! Whatever the result everyone needs to get behind whoever wins. Labour was founded on the principle of grassroots activity. You'd rather not have people involved in shaping politics and what matters? Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 10.47pm)
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| Bill E Pilgrim New Addington 27 Jul 16 11.07pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Labour isn't "a grassroots, member lead party", it is, purported to be, the opposition party to the government. It's deselection, however you want to justify it. Your last comment actually nails it, blackmail. Hey Stuk, maybe you are misunderstanding the history of the Labour Party. Pick up a book about social history and judge for yourself rather than letting some dodgy journalist spoon feed his views to you. Deselection is not blackmail its just members who select Labour candidates selecting Labour candidates who support their views. That is how the Labour Party works. Don't suffer from "mislead by the MSM" syndrome. Try another information source, maybe one that isn't owned by very rich people who don't like the country enough even admit they live here (well to the tax man anyway) Here is a suggestion, if you have an inquiring mind set it free: [Link]
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| Hoof Hearted 28 Jul 16 10.18am | |
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Originally posted by Bill E Pilgrim
Hey Stuk, maybe you are misunderstanding the history of the Labour Party. Pick up a book about social history and judge for yourself rather than letting some dodgy journalist spoon feed his views to you. Deselection is not blackmail its just members who select Labour candidates selecting Labour candidates who support their views. That is how the Labour Party works. Don't suffer from "mislead by the MSM" syndrome. Try another information source, maybe one that isn't owned by very rich people who don't like the country enough even admit they live here (well to the tax man anyway) Here is a suggestion, if you have an inquiring mind set it free: [Link]
Yet another fool that tries to convince everybody that what information he gets about politics is totally unbiased and presumes that everyone else is "spoon fed" their opinions without using their own minds. Funny how these people always have left wing views. Bore off mate.... Bert The Head has the monopoly on the 'right wing media shaping our minds' accusation on here. Try and come up with a new insult to our intelligence.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 28 Jul 16 10.23am |
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As for Owen Smith's policies.....
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 28 Jul 16 10.23am |
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Originally posted by Bill E Pilgrim
Hey Stuk, maybe you are misunderstanding the history of the Labour Party. Pick up a book about social history and judge for yourself rather than letting some dodgy journalist spoon feed his views to you. Deselection is not blackmail its just members who select Labour candidates selecting Labour candidates who support their views. That is how the Labour Party works. Don't suffer from "mislead by the MSM" syndrome. Try another information source, maybe one that isn't owned by very rich people who don't like the country enough even admit they live here (well to the tax man anyway) Here is a suggestion, if you have an inquiring mind set it free: [Link]
Irony is a wonderful thing is it not.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Jul 16 11.12am |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
Also a straight answer to the following questions please Nick 1) Do you think it right that Corbyn voted against Labour than David Cameron I think people, even MPs, should vote for what they believe to be right. I was disappointed to see Corbyn voting for the EU given his history of opposition to it. I think he voted for what the party wanted in order to compromise and show solidarity to the party. That worked out well for him. Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
2) That he seems to have changed his mind that the Labour leader should face re-election every year Whilst ideal in theory, its unpractical and unworkable in reality. I think it was a stupid idea to begin with... Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
3) Given his previous lack of loyalty to party leaders, he is now threatening deselection to anyone who votes against him? Yes, because effectively the PLP is tearing the party apart because it didn't get its own way - even though their own selection process and membership chose him. When taking the shadow cabinet, its not like he didn't include different factions of the Labour Party and try to allow for compromise, even offering free votes. The response of the PLP has been that its been determined ever since his election to replace him, because its agenda conflicts with what the party membership. I quite agree, people who are hostile to the concept of democractic processes, especially their own, shouldn't be standing as democratic MPs. F**k the Labour Elite. I've become increasingly less impressive with Corbyn, but the PLP and the New Labour elites actions have been entirely about their own agenda and objectives.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 28 Jul 16 11.26am |
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You're all secretly repressed benders... well not so secret I suppose, if I know it On a brighter note, I don't particually like the idea of being totally entrenched views, left or right. I can't help but think it creates a sense of winning is more important than being right. Except of course with the general view that politicians are less trustworthy than a paedophile running a nursery.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 28 Jul 16 11.44am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think people, even MPs, should vote for what they believe to be right. I was disappointed to see Corbyn voting for the EU given his history of opposition to it. I think he voted for what the party wanted in order to compromise and show solidarity to the party. That worked out well for him. Yes, because effectively the PLP is tearing the party apart because it didn't get its own way - even though their own selection process and membership chose him. When taking the shadow cabinet, its not like he didn't include different factions of the Labour Party and try to allow for compromise, even offering free votes. The response of the PLP has been that its been determined ever since his election to replace him, because its agenda conflicts with what the party membership. I quite agree, people who are hostile to the concept of democractic processes, especially their own, shouldn't be standing as democratic MPs. F**k the Labour Elite. I've become increasingly less impressive with Corbyn, but the PLP and the New Labour elites actions have been entirely about their own agenda and objectives. And right there is the problem. The dogged ideology thing. The PLP are ambitious people who want to be in government. They are not content to shout abuse from the sidelines. Those who joined the party to vote Corbyn and push their ultra left wing agenda are living in cloud cuckoo land. Just because they are pursuing their heart felt ideology doesn't make it realistic or ever likely to be accepted by the majority. They are the kind of people who can only serve as a rent as crowd, criticising everything that the government does but given the chance to govern themselves, would not have a clue about real world problems.
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| Stuk Top half 28 Jul 16 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Blackmail? How so, the same is true if Smith wins! Whatever the result everyone needs to get behind whoever wins. Labour was founded on the principle of grassroots activity. You'd rather not have people involved in shaping politics and what matters? Edited by nickgusset (27 Jul 2016 10.47pm) Read the bit in bold again. If they don't accept a Corbyn victory, and why should they if they don't agree with it, they're the opposite of safe. Corbyn would've been deselected each and every time according to that mantra.
Optimistic as ever |
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