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chris123 hove actually 31 Aug 19 10.48am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Following the whip is Parliamentary convention. It is a tool used by Government to ensure the smooth passage of their programme and as such a way to keep business flowing in normal times. These are abnormal times and such conventions no longer apply. Someone posted words to the effect that every MP, whatever the balance of opinion in their constituency, should always decide things for themselves and weren't delegates! So I mentioned that it seemed to me that most MP's were following their party whip.

chris123

hove actually 31 Aug 19 10.48am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Following the whip is Parliamentary convention. It is a tool used by Government to ensure the smooth passage of their programme and as such a way to keep business flowing in normal times.

These are abnormal times and such conventions no longer apply.

Someone posted words to the effect that every MP, whatever the balance of opinion in their constituency, should always decide things for themselves and weren't delegates! So I mentioned that it seemed to me that most MP's were following their party whip.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 11.16am
Originally posted by chris123 Someone posted words to the effect that every MP, whatever the balance of opinion in their constituency, should always decide things for themselves and weren't delegates! So I mentioned that it seemed to me that most MP's were following their party whip. If that is their decision then so be it. The point being that they can also refuse the whip if they so decide. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 11.16am

Originally posted by chris123

If that is their decision then so be it. The point being that they can also refuse the whip if they so decide.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Rudi Hedman Caterham 31 Aug 19 11.19am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As those opposing no deal are also thinking long term the difference is who is actually right. Everyone would put up with some short term pain if it was worth it in the end. I don't much care if I cannot get fresh tomatoes in January next year. I believe we would be better off remaining a member of the EU and helping to shape it's direction whilst benefiting from being a member, it's accepted common standards and position in the world. If though we are to come out then we need to ensure that we do so with the least possible pain and to do so without first organising a mutually agreed arrangement makes no sense. Playing "who blinks first" is no way to run a government. Ha! COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 31 Aug 19 11.19am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As those opposing no deal are also thinking long term the difference is who is actually right.

Everyone would put up with some short term pain if it was worth it in the end. I don't much care if I cannot get fresh tomatoes in January next year.

I believe we would be better off remaining a member of the EU and helping to shape it's direction whilst benefiting from being a member, it's accepted common standards and position in the world. If though we are to come out then we need to ensure that we do so with the least possible pain and to do so without first organising a mutually agreed arrangement makes no sense. Playing "who blinks first" is no way to run a government.

Ha!

COYP

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 31 Aug 19 12.02pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As those opposing no deal are also thinking long term the difference is who is actually right. Everyone would put up with some short term pain if it was worth it in the end. I don't much care if I cannot get fresh tomatoes in January next year. better off remaining a member of the EU and helping to shape it's direction whilst benefiting from being a member, I believe we would be it's accepted common standards and position in the world. If though we are to come out then we need to ensure that we do so with the least possible pain and to do so without first organising a mutually agreed arrangement makes no sense. Playing "who blinks first" is no way to run a government. Yeah but we never made any changes to the undemocratic EU did we, they just told us what to do all the time

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 31 Aug 19 12.02pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As those opposing no deal are also thinking long term the difference is who is actually right.

Everyone would put up with some short term pain if it was worth it in the end. I don't much care if I cannot get fresh tomatoes in January next year.
better off remaining a member of the EU and helping to shape it's direction whilst benefiting from being a member,
I believe we would be it's accepted common standards and position in the world. If though we are to come out then we need to ensure that we do so with the least possible pain and to do so without first organising a mutually agreed arrangement makes no sense. Playing "who blinks first" is no way to run a government.

Yeah but we never made any changes to the undemocratic EU did we, they just told us what to do all the time

chris123 hove actually 31 Aug 19 12.17pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If that is their decision then so be it. The point being that they can also refuse the whip if they so decide. How does that jive with the delegates comment - you've lost me.

chris123

hove actually 31 Aug 19 12.17pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If that is their decision then so be it. The point being that they can also refuse the whip if they so decide.

How does that jive with the delegates comment - you've lost me.

steeleye20 Croydon 31 Aug 19 12.21pm
Originally posted by the silurian Yeah but we never made any changes to the undemocratic EU did we, they just told us what to do all the time Really what democratic changes could the UK have introduced to the EU? The House of Lords? The Monarchy? Unelected Prime Ministers? Minority governments propped up by bungs to the DUP? Proguration of Parliaments? Whipping people who don't have the same view? I am afraid sticking their bums out in the EU parliament and wearing T-shirts with bollox written on, is an accurate picture of our standing today.

steeleye20

Croydon 31 Aug 19 12.21pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Yeah but we never made any changes to the undemocratic EU did we, they just told us what to do all the time

Really what democratic changes could the UK have introduced to the EU?

The House of Lords?
The Monarchy?
Unelected Prime Ministers?
Minority governments propped up by bungs to the DUP?
Proguration of Parliaments?
Whipping people who don't have the same view?

I am afraid sticking their bums out in the EU parliament and wearing T-shirts with bollox written on, is an accurate picture of our standing today.

Midlands Eagle 31 Aug 19 12.47pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Really what democratic changes could the UK have introduced to the EU? The House of Lords? The Monarchy? Unelected Prime Ministers? What is the difference between our political parties electing their leaders and the EU electing theirs?

Midlands Eagle

31 Aug 19 12.47pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Really what democratic changes could the UK have introduced to the EU?

The House of Lords?
The Monarchy?
Unelected Prime Ministers?

What is the difference between our political parties electing their leaders and the EU electing theirs?

Stirlingsays 31 Aug 19 12.58pm
October 31st.... Just think, a few days into November and this thread will probably stutter to an end. Maple will be outside parliament with the middle class skinheads and pink haired feminists lobbing their Molotov cocktails and all will be right with the world.....well ok, that's too much to expect....all will be slightly better. Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Aug 2019 1.00pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

31 Aug 19 12.58pm

October 31st....

Just think, a few days into November and this thread will probably stutter to an end.

Maple will be outside parliament with the middle class skinheads and pink haired feminists lobbing their Molotov cocktails and all will be right with the world.....well ok, that's too much to expect....all will be slightly better.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Aug 2019 1.00pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Beckenham 31 Aug 19 1.38pm
I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit. [Link] This has been a long time coming if MPS want to vote against their own party then that party is entitled to say you are not one of us. It probably won't matter to Ken Clarke due to his age and maybe some of the others won't stand again but hopefully it will remind the rest that if you take the King's Shilling you are expected to toe the line. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 31 Aug 19 1.38pm

I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit.

[Link]

This has been a long time coming if MPS want to vote against their own party then that party is entitled to say you are not one of us. It probably won't matter to Ken Clarke due to his age and maybe some of the others won't stand again but hopefully it will remind the rest that if you take the King's Shilling you are expected to toe the line.

One more point

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 31 Aug 19 1.53pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit. [Link] This has been a long time coming if MPS want to vote against their own party then that party is entitled to say you are not one of us. It probably won't matter to Ken Clarke due to his age and maybe some of the others won't stand again but hopefully it will remind the rest that if you take the King's Shilling you are expected to toe the line. Wisbech the Sage Incoming!! Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 31 Aug 19 1.53pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit.

[Link]

**Wisbech the Sage** Incoming!!

Pro USA & Israel

Badger11 Beckenham 31 Aug 19 2.00pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Wisbech the Sage Incoming!! Maybe but this has nothing to do with Parliamentary procedure or the constitution and everything to do with party rules and party loyalty. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 31 Aug 19 2.00pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

**Wisbech the Sage** Incoming!!

Maybe but this has nothing to do with Parliamentary procedure or the constitution and everything to do with party rules and party loyalty.

One more point

Stirlingsays 31 Aug 19 2.09pm
At this point whatever works to push no deal or a form of leave through. This is the nitty gritty and all the reasonable stuff has been tried and failed.....and we found out that the parliament was good at saying what it didn't want but nothing else. Johnson needs to do to pro EU Tories what Corbyn has done to pro Blairite MPs. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

31 Aug 19 2.09pm

At this point whatever works to push no deal or a form of leave through.

This is the nitty gritty and all the reasonable stuff has been tried and failed.....and we found out that the parliament was good at saying what it didn't want but nothing else.

Johnson needs to do to pro EU Tories what Corbyn has done to pro Blairite MPs.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Croydon 31 Aug 19 2.55pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit. [Link] This has been a long time coming if MPS want to vote against their own party then that party is entitled to say you are not one of us. It probably won't matter to Ken Clarke due to his age and maybe some of the others won't stand again but hopefully it will remind the rest that if you take the King's Shilling you are expected to toe the line. Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives.

steeleye20

Croydon 31 Aug 19 2.55pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I hope this is true. Boris will sack Remain MPs who vote against Brexit.

[Link]

Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives.

Badger11 Beckenham 31 Aug 19 2.58pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives. It's all there is Mein Kampf or in English "My Struggle: The Boris Johnson Story" One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 31 Aug 19 2.58pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives.

It's all there is Mein Kampf or in English
"My Struggle: The Boris Johnson Story"

One more point

Midlands Eagle 31 Aug 19 3.21pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives. OK. Alastair Campbell has been thrown out of the Labour Party for not voting for his party.

Midlands Eagle

31 Aug 19 3.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Please keep us up to date on future Fuhrer Directives.

OK.

Alastair Campbell has been thrown out of the Labour Party for not voting for his party.

Badger11 Beckenham 31 Aug 19 5.06pm
From the BBC News website "It's a far cry from the numbers that we saw marching through Westminster earlier this year. I think we'd probably measure this one in the thousands [in central London]." Demonstrations always look impressive but there is also the silent majority. I suspect Corbyn and co will be disappointed with the turnout. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 31 Aug 19 5.06pm

From the BBC News website

"It's a far cry from the numbers that we saw marching through Westminster earlier this year. I think we'd probably measure this one in the thousands [in central London]."

Demonstrations always look impressive but there is also the silent majority. I suspect Corbyn and co will be disappointed with the turnout.

One more point

Hrolf The Ganger 31 Aug 19 8.31pm
The Sky News report on the anti Boris demo was one of the funniest things I have seen recently. They made it seem like two thirds of the country turned out. The bias was not remotely disguised. Both that and the on their spot report from Hong Kong was beyond satire.

Hrolf The Ganger

31 Aug 19 8.31pm

The Sky News report on the anti Boris demo was one of the funniest things I have seen recently.
They made it seem like two thirds of the country turned out. The bias was not remotely disguised.

Both that and the on their spot report from Hong Kong was beyond satire.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 8.38pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Maybe but this has nothing to do with Parliamentary procedure or the constitution and everything to do with party rules and party loyalty. That is the correct answer and it therefore takes both a brave and a convinced MP to risk their own future by taking a principled stand. Those who do deserve our admiration for refusing to be herded into the lobby. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 8.38pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Maybe but this has nothing to do with Parliamentary procedure or the constitution and everything to do with party rules and party loyalty.

That is the correct answer and it therefore takes both a brave and a convinced MP to risk their own future by taking a principled stand.

Those who do deserve our admiration for refusing to be herded into the lobby.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Spiderman Horsham 31 Aug 19 8.41pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You vote them in! If you don't like who you choose then convince enough others and you can put whichever flavour of "pig" there that you like. Choosing our representatives is our collective responsibility and that's where any blame needs to be directed. At us! Absolute twaddle.

Spiderman

Horsham 31 Aug 19 8.41pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You vote them in!

If you don't like who you choose then convince enough others and you can put whichever flavour of "pig" there that you like.

Choosing our representatives is our collective responsibility and that's where any blame needs to be directed. At us!

Absolute twaddle.

cryrst The garden of England 31 Aug 19 8.52pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That is the correct answer and it therefore takes both a brave and a convinced MP to risk their own future by taking a principled stand. Those who do deserve our admiration for refusing to be herded into the lobby. What are you going on about. If your constituents chose to vote differently to how you wanted it you walk. End of. Not keep trying to change a democratic vote. These brave and principled clearly arnt just that. Principled. Their future is to take 80k a year plus any other perks they get. If you cant stand the heat keep out of the kitchen Ffs I'm so embarrassed I'm beginning to think I voted the wrong way. Get on with brexit boris.

cryrst

The garden of England 31 Aug 19 8.52pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That is the correct answer and it therefore takes both a brave and a convinced MP to risk their own future by taking a principled stand.

Those who do deserve our admiration for refusing to be herded into the lobby.

What are you going on about.
If your constituents chose to vote differently to how you wanted it you walk. End of.
Not keep trying to change a democratic vote.
These brave and principled clearly arnt just that. Principled.
Their future is to take 80k a year plus any other perks they get.
If you cant stand the heat keep out of the kitchen
Ffs I'm so embarrassed I'm beginning to think I voted the wrong way.
Get on with brexit boris.

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