This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 9.12pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by the silurian
Yeah but we never made any changes to the undemocratic EU did we, they just told us what to do all the time This idea that the EU is undemocratic is just nonsense. It is simply untrue. We elect MEPs. We also control the EU civil service through the Heads of State taking the final decisions and setting policy. We cannot make changes on our own, but we can, and do, along with others, help to steer the direction.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 9.19pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I have edited your quote to make it more accurate. Do you ever watch the budget as the first part of the Chancellor's budget speech is always to point out how and why the Office of Budget Responsibilities got it wrong last year and then to present their "guesses" for the forthcoming year which no doubt he will be apologising for in the next budget. Your so called professionals have no more idea than the rest of us. It wasn't that long ago that the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that if the population voted in favour of Brexit the economy would immediately collapse. It also wasn't that long ago that the Governor of the Bank of England who was one of the chief portrayers of Brexit doom and gloom changed his mind to say that it may well not be that bad So you would let an amateur, lets say he is professionally a plumber, perform brain surgery on you rather than a surgeon would you? Even surgeons make mistakes and have to sometimes make educated guesses but on balance they will get things right more often than the plumber will. When the balance of opinion of the professionals is so overwhelmingly that a no deal Brexit is unwise I think it is fair to conclude that they are likely to be right. Politicians making political statements in the middle of a campaign loaded with lies isn't the same at all. Mark Carney did not "change his mind". That was just the spin of the right wing press. He updated his emphasis.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 31 Aug 19 9.24pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by chris123
How does that jive with the delegates comment - you've lost me. It really isn't that difficult! MP's are not delegated by the constituents who voted for them to act in the way they determine. They are chosen to represent all their constituents by using their personal best judgement as what is in the best interests of the constituents as a whole and the country. If the choose to be whipped and vote along party lines then they follow convention, but it is not compulsory.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| chris123 hove actually 31 Aug 19 9.52pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It really isn't that difficult! MP's are not delegated by the constituents who voted for them to act in the way they determine. They are chosen to represent all their constituents by using their personal best judgement as what is in the best interests of the constituents as a whole and the country. If the choose to be whipped and vote along party lines then they follow convention, but it is not compulsory. ok - because my view has been that most do not use best judgement, most vote on party lines irrespective of constituents and is why Parliament is in grid lock.
|
|
| Midlands Eagle 01 Sep 19 7.22am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Mark Carney did not "change his mind". That was just the spin of the right wing press. He updated his emphasis. That is possibly the quote of the month and I'll have to remember it. Boris Johnson didn't tell lies he updated his emphasis
|
|
| Midlands Eagle 01 Sep 19 7.28am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That must be close to the hundredth time that you've posted that but it doesn't make it any more true than the first time that you posted it. Most people vote along traditional party lines or else according to what is contained in the party manifesto and again most people don't actually know much about their MP at all. There is a lot written in the media about Conservatives having to be very careful that they don't let Corbyn in at the next General Election. Why would they be worried about that as according to you people don't vote along party lines or for whichever leader they think would make the best Prime Minister
|
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 19 8.58am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That is possibly the quote of the month and I'll have to remember it. Boris Johnson didn't tell lies he updated his emphasis Mark Carney always tries to balance the possibilities and his recent words did no more than make an adjustment to his analysis in the light of experience. That is a world of difference between a politician making deliberately biased forecasts aka lies!
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 19 9.04am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That must be close to the hundredth time that you've posted that but it doesn't make it any more true than the first time that you posted it. Most people vote along traditional party lines or else according to what is contained in the party manifesto and again most people don't actually know much about their MP at all. There is a lot written in the media about Conservatives having to be very careful that they don't let Corbyn in at the next General Election. Why would they be worried about that as according to you people don't vote along party lines or for whichever leader they think would make the best Prime Minister I realise that I keep having to repeat things because people don't seem to accept it. Just because you continue to refuse that it is true doesn't mean it isn't. It is. What you describe is convention. It is not the legal basis of the system and in times of crisis, as this clearly is, can, is and will be abandoned in the national interest. It was done in war time and is about to be done again.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| Spiderman Horsham 01 Sep 19 11.48am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Mark Carney always tries to balance the possibilities and his recent words did no more than make an adjustment to his analysis in the light of experience. That is a world of difference between a politician making deliberately biased forecasts aka lies! Like Hammond you mean
|
|
| elgrande bedford 01 Sep 19 3.04pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Spiderman
Like Hammond you mean Or osbourne.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
|
| JRW2 Dulwich 01 Sep 19 4.30pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Mark Carney always tries to balance the possibilities and his recent words did no more than make an adjustment to his analysis in the light of experience. That is a world of difference between a politician making deliberately biased forecasts aka lies! Oh dear. I think you should follow the old advice: "When you're in a hole, stop digging".
|
|
| Stirlingsays 01 Sep 19 4.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
That is possibly the quote of the month and I'll have to remember it. Boris Johnson didn't tell lies he updated his emphasis
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 19 5.05pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Spiderman
Like Hammond you mean Indeed. He was in the middle of the extremely stupid political melee in the run up to an even more stupid referendum. A referendum which delivered the mess that we are now immersed in. Political claims and counter claims to encourage an ill informed electorate to vote the way you want them to, over such a vital issue as our membership of the EU, is throwing the future of our children and grandchildren into the laps of the gods. It's no way to run a country when we have already employed our MPs to represent us, and they are in place ready to look dispassionately at what is in our best interests.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
cryrst  The garden of England 01 Sep 19 5.14pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Indeed. He was in the middle of the extremely stupid political melee in the run up to an even more stupid referendum. A referendum which delivered the mess that we are now immersed in. Political claims and counter claims to encourage an ill informed electorate to vote the way you want them to, over such a vital issue as our membership of the EU, is throwing the future of our children and grandchildren into the laps of the gods. It's no way to run a country when we have already employed our MPs to represent us, and they are in place ready to look dispassionately at what is in our best interests. ill informed. Very insulting.
|
|
| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Sep 19 5.55pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by cryrst
ill informed. Very insulting. Not in the least. No-one, on either side of the debate, was well enough informed at the time. Compared to now when we all have had 3 years of constant debate we knew very little and nothing whatsoever about the possibility of leaving without first agreeing a new relationship.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
|
| cryrst The garden of England 01 Sep 19 10.40pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not in the least. No-one, on either side of the debate, was well enough informed at the time. Compared to now when we all have had 3 years of constant debate we knew very little and nothing whatsoever about the possibility of leaving without first agreeing a new relationship. Are we better informed now then?
|
|
| Invalid user 2019 01 Sep 19 11.43pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Latest polls Is Boris Johnson doing well or badly as PM? Is Jeremy Corbyn doing well or badly? Source: @YouGov
|
|
| Badger11 Beckenham 02 Sep 19 7.09am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by dollardays
"No10 has decided Philip Hammond, David Gauke, Dominic Grieve and co will have the Conservative whip withdrawn if they do not vote with the government on Tuesday " Brace yourselves for an eventful Tuesday Hammond has said withdrawing the whip is hypocrisy as 8 Cabinet members voted against the government under May. The real scandal was Mrs May allowing her own cabinet members to vote against the government they belonged to. I have never seen that in my lifetime on a major policy. They have either resigned or been sacked it just shows how weak and ineffectual Mrs May was. Boris is only doing what Thatcher or Blair would have done. This is a three line whip you are either with us or against us and if the government falls so be it. I hope Boris sticks to that and if we do have a GE let's make polling date before 31st Oct.
One more point |
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.