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Stirlingsays 04 Sep 19 2.24pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'Johnson's an election winner' Something tells me you're going to go missing again around the election result. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

04 Sep 19 2.24pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'Johnson's an election winner'

Something tells me you're going to go missing again around the election result.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 04 Sep 19 2.29pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Oh I regret having to repeat myself as much as anyone else does but unless and until people understand the implications of what a Parliamentary democracy is, what it does and why what Parliament is doing is 100% correct I need to keep saying it. When people understand and accept then there will be no need. So why did Cameron give a referendum??? What was the point if the MPs are just gonna ignore the result ? I for one will NEVER vote again for anyone, what is the point?

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 04 Sep 19 2.29pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Oh I regret having to repeat myself as much as anyone else does but unless and until people understand the implications of what a Parliamentary democracy is, what it does and why what Parliament is doing is 100% correct I need to keep saying it.

When people understand and accept then there will be no need.

So why did Cameron give a referendum??? What was the point if the MPs are just gonna ignore the result
? I for one will NEVER vote again for anyone, what is the point?

Matov 04 Sep 19 2.34pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle If nothing else you must accept the governments strategy has now completely backfired. . Not so sure. They would have known Remainers would pull this stunt and would know that it would work due to the treacherous scum masquerading as Conservatives. No surprise there. Johnson knows that he did not have a working majority and would have to fight an election sooner rather than later. So they forced this all now, knowing it will lead to an election. They get to clear out the dead-wood from their own back-benches and when the election campaign starts, everybody singing from the same song-sheet. As opposed to Labour with one eye on the Lib-Dems attracting their Remain membership whilst their tribal northern voters no longer fall into line like they have done for decades. And getting ripped to pieces over changing their stance from Leave to Remain. Nah. This has all been gamed. Why on earth would the Tories have not anticipated events of the last couple of days? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

04 Sep 19 2.34pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

If nothing else you must accept the governments strategy has now completely backfired.

Not so sure. They would have known Remainers would pull this stunt and would know that it would work due to the treacherous scum masquerading as Conservatives. No surprise there. Johnson knows that he did not have a working majority and would have to fight an election sooner rather than later.

So they forced this all now, knowing it will lead to an election.

They get to clear out the dead-wood from their own back-benches and when the election campaign starts, everybody singing from the same song-sheet. As opposed to Labour with one eye on the Lib-Dems attracting their Remain membership whilst their tribal northern voters no longer fall into line like they have done for decades.

And getting ripped to pieces over changing their stance from Leave to Remain.

Nah. This has all been gamed. Why on earth would the Tories have not anticipated events of the last couple of days?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Midlands Eagle 04 Sep 19 2.36pm
Originally posted by twist But what those rebels have told Brussels, is that you can screw us right royally because there is now way in the world we will allow a no deal brexit, which would be disastrous for both Britain and Europe. That won't necessarily work. Parliament can pass a law refusing to allow No Deal and insisting on an extension and Boris Johnson can then go to Brussels to ask for the extension which he will subsequently vote against. Game, set and match

Midlands Eagle

04 Sep 19 2.36pm

Originally posted by twist

But what those rebels have told Brussels, is that you can screw us right royally because there is now way in the world we will allow a no deal brexit, which would be disastrous for both Britain and Europe.

That won't necessarily work. Parliament can pass a law refusing to allow No Deal and insisting on an extension and Boris Johnson can then go to Brussels to ask for the extension which he will subsequently vote against. Game, set and match

johnno42000 04 Sep 19 2.39pm
I think the following will happen: The no no-deal bill will pass. A general election will be held. It will be a hung parliament. Nothing will be able to be done. All the MP's will continue to claim expenses, wages, cheap food and booze and the electorate, as always, will moan (me included). 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

johnno42000

04 Sep 19 2.39pm

I think the following will happen:

The no no-deal bill will pass.
A general election will be held.
It will be a hung parliament.
Nothing will be able to be done.
All the MP's will continue to claim expenses, wages, cheap food and booze and the electorate, as always, will moan (me included).

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

Bexley Eagle Bexley Kent 04 Sep 19 2.50pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 I think the following will happen: The no no-deal bill will pass. A general election will be held. It will be a hung parliament. Nothing will be able to be done. All the MP's will continue to claim expenses, wages, cheap food and booze and the electorate, as always, will moan (me included). That sounds about right. You can bet your bottom dollar that whatever happens it won't be the MP's left with empty pockets.

Bexley Eagle

Bexley Kent 04 Sep 19 2.50pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

I think the following will happen:

That sounds about right. You can bet your bottom dollar that whatever happens it won't be the MP's left with empty pockets.

Lyons550 Shirley 04 Sep 19 3.53pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 I think the following will happen: The no no-deal bill will pass. A general election will be held. It will be a hung parliament. Nothing will be able to be done. All the MP's will continue to claim expenses, wages, cheap food and booze and the electorate, as always, will moan (me included). So so true... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

Lyons550

Shirley 04 Sep 19 3.53pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

I think the following will happen:

So so true...

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 04 Sep 19 3.55pm
Originally posted by Matov Not so sure. They would have known Remainers would pull this stunt and would know that it would work due to the treacherous scum masquerading as Conservatives. No surprise there. Johnson knows that he did not have a working majority and would have to fight an election sooner rather than later. So they forced this all now, knowing it will lead to an election. They get to clear out the dead-wood from their own back-benches and when the election campaign starts, everybody singing from the same song-sheet. As opposed to Labour with one eye on the Lib-Dems attracting their Remain membership whilst their tribal northern voters no longer fall into line like they have done for decades. And getting ripped to pieces over changing their stance from Leave to Remain. Nah. This has all been gamed. Why on earth would the Tories have not anticipated events of the last couple of days? I think you're giving the blonde buffoon too much credit. Especially after his atrocious debating performances over the last 48 hours. Certainly didn't look like a man for whom everything is going to plan. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 04 Sep 19 3.55pm

Originally posted by Matov

So they forced this all now, knowing it will lead to an election.

And getting ripped to pieces over changing their stance from Leave to Remain.

Nah. This has all been gamed. Why on earth would the Tories have not anticipated events of the last couple of days?

I think you're giving the blonde buffoon too much credit. Especially after his atrocious debating performances over the last 48 hours. Certainly didn't look like a man for whom everything is going to plan.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Stirlingsays 04 Sep 19 4.05pm
How does that famous saying go?....'first they laugh at you'. Johnson's a lefty heart-breaker and while he's far too milk toast for me it's still fun to watch. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

04 Sep 19 4.05pm

How does that famous saying go?....'first they laugh at you'.

Johnson's a lefty heart-breaker and while he's far too milk toast for me it's still fun to watch.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DANGERCLOSE London 04 Sep 19 4.05pm
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 04 Sep 19 4.05pm

[Tweet Link]

Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.21pm
Originally posted by Matov WTF? Leave or Remain. A simple question. No preconditions attached to either position. And numerous promises the result would be honoured. What is not to understand? If you want the votes of 17 million plus people ignored then have the courage to admit that. Don't hide behind this 'oh poor Leavers did not understand what the word 'leave' meant.'. We did. Yes, it was well understood in respect of the information available at the time. That included an unequivocal statement that leaving would come with a deal. How many times does this have to be stated for goodness sake. Perhaps some people didn't care whether there was going to be a deal but that is what was promised and what was voted upon. There may well have been a significant group that would not have voted for a no-deal Brexit, that cannot be known as it was never tested.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.21pm

Originally posted by Matov

WTF?

Leave or Remain. A simple question. No preconditions attached to either position. And numerous promises the result would be honoured. What is not to understand?

If you want the votes of 17 million plus people ignored then have the courage to admit that. Don't hide behind this 'oh poor Leavers did not understand what the word 'leave' meant.'. We did.

Yes, it was well understood in respect of the information available at the time. That included an unequivocal statement that leaving would come with a deal. How many times does this have to be stated for goodness sake. Perhaps some people didn't care whether there was going to be a deal but that is what was promised and what was voted upon. There may well have been a significant group that would not have voted for a no-deal Brexit, that cannot be known as it was never tested.

Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.24pm
Originally posted by Spiderman You are really getting pretty tiresome Then simply accept the veracity of his point.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.24pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

You are really getting pretty tiresome

Then simply accept the veracity of his point.

Stirlingsays 04 Sep 19 4.26pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Yes, it was well understood in respect of the information available at the time. That included an unequivocal statement that leaving would come with a deal. How many times does this have to be stated for goodness sake. Perhaps some people didn't care whether there was going to be a deal but that is what was promised and what was voted upon. There may well have been a significant group that would not have voted for a no-deal Brexit, that cannot be known as it was never tested. Buy a fresh packet Maple, those sour grapes obviously don't taste very nice. Time for you to enjoy your own 's***e sandwich'. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 4.28pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

04 Sep 19 4.26pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Buy a fresh packet Maple, those sour grapes obviously don't taste very nice.

Time for you to enjoy your own 's***e sandwich'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 4.28pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.33pm
The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit. The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend.

steeleye20

Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.33pm

The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit.

The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend.

Spiderman Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.34pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Yes, it was well understood in respect of the information available at the time. That included an unequivocal statement that leaving would come with a deal. How many times does this have to be stated for goodness sake. Perhaps some people didn't care whether there was going to be a deal but that is what was promised and what was voted upon. There may well have been a significant group that would not have voted for a no-deal Brexit, that cannot be known as it was never tested. Or may not. Hyperthetical as even you Mystic do not know the answer

Spiderman

Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.34pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Or may not. Hyperthetical as even you Mystic do not know the answer

Spiderman Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.35pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link]

Spiderman

Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.35pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.38pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Powell was not Prime Minister.....should have been but unfortunately the best minds rarely attain the top. Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973 Here is a direct quote to the nation: 'There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified' [Link] I note that you didn't have the full transcript of that quote. May I suggest you broaden your reading a tad, 'Campaign for an Independent Britain' may not be entirely objective. Heath was very clear in 1971, as your link does indeed show. Here are some more quotes: ''I see no reason why the enlarged Community should not work out a common West European policy, and decide together upon the means for carrying that policy into effect. It seems to me inevitable that progress towards a common foreign policy will be accompanied by increasing cooperation on defence. And again, on other areas of integration; As a member of the enlarged Community, we in Britain will welcome progress towards economic and monetary union, which will enable Europe to speak with a single, independent and powerful voice in international counsels on these matters. Let us even dare to hope that a united Europe may be the means of bringing about that still wider unity among mankind which must be our ultimate goal.'' So what people knew upon entry to the EEC and at the time of the first referendum was that the intention was closer integration, potentially including e.g. EU armed forces. They agreed to this and then confirmed that agreement in a referendum. So in what way exactly were we lied to? How has the ground shifted? The truth is that people who lived through wars knew something needed to be done and made it happen. Then their children decided the grass was greener on the other side - well it ain't. The people that set this in motion knew what they were doing and aimed to get it locked in. We are now going against the heroes of two World Wars, shame on us.

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.38pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Powell was not Prime Minister.....should have been but unfortunately the best minds rarely attain the top.

Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973

Here is a direct quote to the nation:

'There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified'

[Link]

I note that you didn't have the full transcript of that quote. May I suggest you broaden your reading a tad, 'Campaign for an Independent Britain' may not be entirely objective.

Heath was very clear in 1971, as your link does indeed show. Here are some more quotes:

''I see no reason why the enlarged Community should not work out a common West European policy, and decide together upon the means for carrying that policy into effect.

It seems to me inevitable that progress towards a common foreign policy will be accompanied by increasing cooperation on defence. And again, on other areas of integration; As a member of the enlarged Community, we in Britain will welcome progress towards economic and monetary union, which will enable Europe to speak with a single, independent and powerful voice in international counsels on these matters. Let us even dare to hope that a united Europe may be the means of bringing about that still wider unity among mankind which must be our ultimate goal.''

So what people knew upon entry to the EEC and at the time of the first referendum was that the intention was closer integration, potentially including e.g. EU armed forces. They agreed to this and then confirmed that agreement in a referendum. So in what way exactly were we lied to? How has the ground shifted?

The truth is that people who lived through wars knew something needed to be done and made it happen. Then their children decided the grass was greener on the other side - well it ain't. The people that set this in motion knew what they were doing and aimed to get it locked in. We are now going against the heroes of two World Wars, shame on us.

Stirlingsays 04 Sep 19 4.38pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit. The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend. Yeah, corporations are so completely unbiased on the whole Brexit issue aren't they. I can see whole areas of the country starving to near death....forced to eat the fast depleting Haribo sweet packets and long life nobbles until the EU send emergency veg. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 4.38pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

04 Sep 19 4.38pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit.

The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend.

Yeah, corporations are so completely unbiased on the whole Brexit issue aren't they.

I can see whole areas of the country starving to near death....forced to eat the fast depleting Haribo sweet packets and long life nobbles until the EU send emergency veg.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2019 4.38pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.39pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Or may not. Hyperthetical as even you Mystic do not know the answer Yes, it is hypothetical and I don't know the answer. I would love to find out though

Mapletree

Croydon 04 Sep 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Or may not. Hyperthetical as even you Mystic do not know the answer

Yes, it is hypothetical and I don't know the answer. I would love to find out though

Spiderman Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.42pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit. The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend. Project Fear. Any excuse to put prices up and more moey in the pockets of shareholders. Why would there be a shortage? Chap in charge of Port of [Link] (yes a Frenchie) has stated there would not be any undue delay in goods leaving and arriving at his port [Link] [Link]

Spiderman

Horsham 04 Sep 19 4.42pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The British Retail Consortium (basically the supermarkets) Retailers have warned that there will be shortages of fresh food coupled with potential price rises if there is a no-deal Brexit.

The body representing supermarkets and other chains told MPs that they could not understand why Michael Gove had claimed otherwise in a BBC interview over the weekend.

Project Fear. Any excuse to put prices up and more moey in the pockets of shareholders. Why would there be a shortage? Chap in charge of Port of [Link] (yes a Frenchie) has stated there would not be any undue delay in goods leaving and arriving at his port

[Link]

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