Jeremy Corbyn

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 29 Jul 16 4.25pm
[Link] the dignified don't even enter in the game

Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 29 Jul 16 4.25pm

[Link]

the dignified don't even enter in the game

davidpercival Croydon 29 Jul 16 5.06pm
If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them? It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd. Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter. Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger If you weren't so naive you might just realise that it has been nuclear weapons that have prevented that very thing from happening. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. And I had no idea that Crispin's mum was at Greenham Common. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Jul 2016 8.13am)

davidpercival

Croydon 29 Jul 16 5.06pm

If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them?
It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd.

Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter.

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If you weren't so naive you might just realise that it has been nuclear weapons that have prevented that very thing from happening.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

And I had no idea that Crispin's mum was at Greenham Common.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Jul 2016 8.13am)

daven Hailsham 29 Jul 16 5.09pm
I wanted to send my mother in law on a cruise,but they wouldn't let us through the gates at greenham common.

daven

Hailsham 29 Jul 16 5.09pm

I wanted to send my mother in law on a cruise,but they wouldn't let us through the gates at greenham common.

Stuk Top half 29 Jul 16 5.22pm
Originally posted by davidpercival If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them? It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd. Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter. They have got some as part of NATO, among others. And they are covered under the nuclear umbrella. If you don't think Britain is a significant player, you're a complete moron. Edited by Stuk (29 Jul 2016 5.26pm) Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 29 Jul 16 5.22pm

Originally posted by davidpercival

If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them?
It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd.

Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter.

They have got some as part of NATO, among others.

And they are covered under the nuclear umbrella.

If you don't think Britain is a significant player, you're a complete moron.

Edited by Stuk (29 Jul 2016 5.26pm)

Optimistic as ever

davidpercival Croydon 29 Jul 16 7.32pm
Originally posted by Stuk your abuse hardly adds to you case but I would point out that Britain is in Nato as well so we don't need to spend billions which could be better used constructively. They have got some as part of NATO, among others. And they are covered under the nuclear umbrella. If you don't think Britain is a significant player, you're a complete moron. Edited by Stuk (29 Jul 2016 5.26pm)

davidpercival

Croydon 29 Jul 16 7.32pm

Originally posted by Stuk
your abuse hardly adds to you case but I would point out that Britain is in Nato as well so we don't need to spend billions which could be better used constructively.

They have got some as part of NATO, among others.

And they are covered under the nuclear umbrella.

If you don't think Britain is a significant player, you're a complete moron.

Edited by Stuk (29 Jul 2016 5.26pm)

steeleye20 Croydon 29 Jul 16 8.15pm
We are a significant player because of the potential of a nuclear accident caused by us. It is only a week since the HMS Astute collision (nuclear submarine but not Trident) was damaged in the med near Gibraltar. A brief headline but nothing more except the Captain was on holiday? What is going on.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Jul 16 8.15pm

We are a significant player because of the potential of a nuclear accident caused by us.

It is only a week since the HMS Astute collision (nuclear submarine but not Trident) was damaged in the med near Gibraltar.

A brief headline but nothing more except the Captain was on holiday? What is going on.

leifandersonshair Newport 29 Jul 16 9.17pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger If you weren't so naive you might just realise that it has been nuclear weapons that have prevented that very thing from happening. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. And I had no idea that Crispin's mum was at Greenham Common. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Jul 2016 8.13am) I think the nuclear deterrent idea is a bit of a fallacy. Anyone crazy enough to use a nuke is going to use it regardless of whether they are going to get nuked in return. Unfortunately, Putin is exactly that crazy. Trump will be too, if he gets in. I think everyone knows that nuclear weapons are a Bad Thing. In a perfect, logical world we'd dismantle the bloody things quick as we could. But we aren't. I respect Corbyn's views on nuclear disarmament. I wish more people were like him. Unfortunately, they aren't, and in this issue, he is out of tune with public opinion.

leifandersonshair

Newport 29 Jul 16 9.17pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

If you weren't so naive you might just realise that it has been nuclear weapons that have prevented that very thing from happening.
You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

And I had no idea that Crispin's mum was at Greenham Common.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Jul 2016 8.13am)

I think the nuclear deterrent idea is a bit of a fallacy. Anyone crazy enough to use a nuke is going to use it regardless of whether they are going to get nuked in return.

Unfortunately, Putin is exactly that crazy. Trump will be too, if he gets in.

I think everyone knows that nuclear weapons are a Bad Thing. In a perfect, logical world we'd dismantle the bloody things quick as we could. But we aren't.

I respect Corbyn's views on nuclear disarmament. I wish more people were like him. Unfortunately, they aren't, and in this issue, he is out of tune with public opinion.

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jul 16 9.21pm
Originally posted by davidpercival If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them? It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd. Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter. They would do if thy ever thought about attacking us.

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jul 16 9.21pm

Originally posted by davidpercival

If Trident is so good and necessary, why don't countries like Germany, Japan, Brazil, Canada, Austalia, South Korea, Italy, Spain etc etc get them?
It is nonsensical to think that our nuclear weapons are anything but a pretence that Britain is a significant player. Do you think Russia, China or North Korea ever give a toss about it? And the argument that it is meant to frighten terrorist is even more absurd.

Even if you are right that nuclear weapons stopped world war (which is debatable), it certainly wasn't our pea shooter.

They would do if thy ever thought about attacking us.

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Jul 16 9.25pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair I think the nuclear deterrent idea is a bit of a fallacy. Anyone crazy enough to use a nuke is going to use it regardless of whether they are going to get nuked in return. Unfortunately, Putin is exactly that crazy. Trump will be too, if he gets in. I think everyone knows that nuclear weapons are a Bad Thing. In a perfect, logical world we'd dismantle the bloody things quick as we could. But we aren't. I respect Corbyn's views on nuclear disarmament. I wish more people were like him. Unfortunately, they aren't, and in this issue, he is out of tune with public opinion. You can think want you like, but remember that the only time nuclear weapons have been dropped in anger was when only one country had them. JAT.

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Jul 16 9.25pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

I think the nuclear deterrent idea is a bit of a fallacy. Anyone crazy enough to use a nuke is going to use it regardless of whether they are going to get nuked in return.

Unfortunately, Putin is exactly that crazy. Trump will be too, if he gets in.

I think everyone knows that nuclear weapons are a Bad Thing. In a perfect, logical world we'd dismantle the bloody things quick as we could. But we aren't.

I respect Corbyn's views on nuclear disarmament. I wish more people were like him. Unfortunately, they aren't, and in this issue, he is out of tune with public opinion.

You can think want you like, but remember that the only time nuclear weapons have been dropped in anger was when only one country had them. JAT.

davidpercival Croydon 30 Jul 16 3.58pm
well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools? Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger They would do if thy ever thought about attacking us.

davidpercival

Croydon 30 Jul 16 3.58pm

well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools?

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They would do if thy ever thought about attacking us.

leifandersonshair Newport 30 Jul 16 4.11pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You can think want you like, but remember that the only time nuclear weapons have been dropped in anger was when only one country had them. JAT. So you really think the prospect of being nuked in return is the only thing stopping Putin, Kim Jong Un or any other nutjob leader you care to name? And if we disarmed, they'd suddenly shout, "Ha! Gotcha!" and wipe us all out? You can think that if you like too.

leifandersonshair

Newport 30 Jul 16 4.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You can think want you like, but remember that the only time nuclear weapons have been dropped in anger was when only one country had them. JAT.

So you really think the prospect of being nuked in return is the only thing stopping Putin, Kim Jong Un or any other nutjob leader you care to name? And if we disarmed, they'd suddenly shout, "Ha! Gotcha!" and wipe us all out? You can think that if you like too.

palace_in_frogland In a broken dream 30 Jul 16 4.23pm
Originally posted by davidpercival well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools? Not fools, but long term signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. [Link]

palace_in_frogland

In a broken dream 30 Jul 16 4.23pm

Originally posted by davidpercival

well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools?

Not fools, but long term signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

[Link]

davidpercival Croydon 30 Jul 16 4.29pm
Originally posted by palace_in_frogland Why did they sign it if nuclear weapons are such a good idea to have then? Not fools, but long term signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. [Link]

davidpercival

Croydon 30 Jul 16 4.29pm

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland
Why did they sign it if nuclear weapons are such a good idea to have then?

Not fools, but long term signatories to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jul 16 5.30pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair So you really think the prospect of being nuked in return is the only thing stopping Putin, Kim Jong Un or any other nutjob leader you care to name? And if we disarmed, they'd suddenly shout, "Ha! Gotcha!" and wipe us all out? You can think that if you like too. What I know is that had Russia or Germany invented the bomb we would probably not be here now discussing this. The threat of mutually assured destruction has prevented a major conflict between the super powers since WW2.Any other interpretation is naive revisionist claptrap. In an end game of any conventional war between Russia, China or any other future enemy and allied forces, the losing side would have the option of launching a nuclear strike. So it is unlikely that a nuclear or conventional war would start in the first place. That is why the conflicts between East and West have been restricted to proxy wars. Take away that balance and all bets are off.

Hrolf The Ganger

30 Jul 16 5.30pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

What I know is that had Russia or Germany invented the bomb we would probably not be here now discussing this.

The threat of mutually assured destruction has prevented a major conflict between the super powers since WW2.Any other interpretation is naive revisionist claptrap.
In an end game of any conventional war between Russia, China or any other future enemy and allied forces, the losing side would have the option of launching a nuclear strike. So it is unlikely that a nuclear or conventional war would start in the first place. That is why the conflicts between East and West have been restricted to proxy wars. Take away that balance and all bets are off.

Hrolf The Ganger 30 Jul 16 5.32pm
Originally posted by davidpercival well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools? Well they lost the war, if that is anything to go by.

Hrolf The Ganger

30 Jul 16 5.32pm

Originally posted by davidpercival

Well they lost the war, if that is anything to go by.

chris123 hove actually 30 Jul 16 6.35pm
Originally posted by davidpercival well they haven't thought of attacking all the other countries I mentioned, so why would they attack us. Do you think we should be advising all these other countries to get nuclear weapons if they are such a good thing/ I haven't heard that their populations are demanding their governments immediately start spending billions of such a project. Do you think the germans, Italians, Spanish et all are all fools? The US have nuclear weapons in Germany and Italy.

chris123

hove actually 30 Jul 16 6.35pm

Originally posted by davidpercival

The US have nuclear weapons in Germany and Italy.

steeleye20 Croydon 30 Jul 16 7.14pm
They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy? US public would never stand for it The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now.

steeleye20

Croydon 30 Jul 16 7.14pm

They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy?

US public would never stand for it

The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now.

chris123 hove actually 30 Jul 16 7.42pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy? US public would never stand for it The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now. It's part of NATO deal whereby non-nuclear states host 3rd party nuclear weapons.

chris123

hove actually 30 Jul 16 7.42pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy?

US public would never stand for it

The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now.

It's part of NATO deal whereby non-nuclear states host 3rd party nuclear weapons.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 30 Jul 16 9.14pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy? US public would never stand for it The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now. What utter sht. The UK is and will continue to be a pivotal member of NATO, as will the US. The essence of the NATO treaty is that an attack on one member is deemed to be an attack on all, and that includes nuclear attack. So a nuclear attack on a non-nuclear member will provoke a nuclear response. Your comment about how other countries see the UK treaty-wise is such infantile, risible bollocks as to not even merit a response. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham*

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 30 Jul 16 9.14pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

They would fire them in defence of Germany or Italy?

US public would never stand for it

The UK view of treaties seems to be that you just walk away from them if they no longer suit you thats how other countries see us now.

What utter sh*t.

The UK is and will continue to be a pivotal member of NATO, as will the US. The essence of the NATO treaty is that an attack on one member is deemed to be an attack on all, and that includes nuclear attack. So a nuclear attack on a non-nuclear member will provoke a nuclear response.

Your comment about how other countries see the UK treaty-wise is such infantile, risible bollocks as to not even merit a response.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

glazedallover Allier 30 Jul 16 9.28pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt What utter sh*t. Your comment about how other countries see the UK treaty-wise is such infantile, risible bollocks as to not even merit a response. 'Risible' eh cucking.? Trolleyism's and willoism's not withstanding...

glazedallover

Allier 30 Jul 16 9.28pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

What utter sh*t.

Your comment about how other countries see the UK treaty-wise is such infantile, risible bollocks as to not even merit a response.

'Risible' eh cucking.? Trolleyism's and willoism's not withstanding...

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