General Election 2017

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Stirlingsays 22 May 17 6.14pm
Originally posted by matt_himself There is an issue here. Fallon is appearing, rightly or wrongly, to be incapable of defending his beliefs. That demonstrates a lack of leadership. Yep totally agree. I respect both the anti and pro choice positions. Always was pro choice without really giving it much thought before my two boys. Once the children started appearing I realised that abolition wasn't something I could ever agree to....Not saying that it would or should have been my choice...though surely I have a say if not the decision..... but anyway just that my personal attitude towards it changed once I had to face the human realities of it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 May 17 6.14pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

There is an issue here. Fallon is appearing, rightly or wrongly, to be incapable of defending his beliefs.

That demonstrates a lack of leadership.

Yep totally agree.

I respect both the anti and pro choice positions. Always was pro choice without really giving it much thought before my two boys. Once the children started appearing I realised that abolition wasn't something I could ever agree to....Not saying that it would or should have been my choice...though surely I have a say if not the decision..... but anyway just that my personal attitude towards it changed once I had to face the human realities of it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 May 17 6.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'd agree with your first sentence. Personally the areas where I'd agree with the idea of 'murdering' someone are practically at nil....For example, if we reverse the situation where the two British soldiers were murdered at that IRA funeral...I would have released those guys to go home to their families. So I'd agree that your loyalties shouldn't mean that your ethics are compromised. The behaviour of criminals using the troubles to gain status and influence was definitely a situation that existed on both sides. But I completely and utterly reject any equivalency at all between a British soldier's life and an IRA member's. Not one of our soldier's lives was or is worth their entire membership. The IRA were responsible for around about sixty percent of the death during the conflict....loyalists thirty percent and the British state ten. The loss of any innocent is a crime. The loss of a British soldier a disaster. The loss of an active IRA member....Well, that's goodbye to human rubbish. Are you being sponsored to use the word equivalency?

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 May 17 6.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'd agree with your first sentence.

Personally the areas where I'd agree with the idea of 'murdering' someone are practically at nil....For example, if we reverse the situation where the two British soldiers were murdered at that IRA funeral...I would have released those guys to go home to their families. So I'd agree that your loyalties shouldn't mean that your ethics are compromised.

The behaviour of criminals using the troubles to gain status and influence was definitely a situation that existed on both sides.

But I completely and utterly reject any equivalency at all between a British soldier's life and an IRA member's. Not one of our soldier's lives was or is worth their entire membership.

The IRA were responsible for around about sixty percent of the death during the conflict....loyalists thirty percent and the British state ten.

The loss of any innocent is a crime. The loss of a British soldier a disaster. The loss of an active IRA member....Well, that's goodbye to human rubbish.

Are you being sponsored to use the word equivalency?

Stirlingsays 22 May 17 6.18pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Are you being sponsored to use the word equivalency? I will admit to having developed a sudden fondness. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 May 17 6.18pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Are you being sponsored to use the word equivalency?

I will admit to having developed a sudden fondness.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 6.32pm
This u turn is embarassing, im seriously worried about our future being led by this lot, must have gone to same school as dianne !

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 6.32pm

This u turn is embarassing, im seriously worried about our future being led by this lot, must have gone to same school as dianne !

Bert the Head Epsom 22 May 17 6.32pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You are responsible for most of it. The real hypocrisy is that the right wing press peddle the idea that Corbyn is a terrorist because he openly spoke to the IRA because he knew that they would have to be spoken to if every there was to be a peace deal. It was quite a visionary thing to do when you look back at what happened to bring about peace - a dialogue was opened with IRA and this lead to peace. I don't see this as an act of terrorism. Meanwhile Thatcher was undertaking a real act of terrorism by sending British soldiers to train and arm Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge with the aim of trying put them back into power after the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia (Kampuchea as it was at the time). This was after it was known that Pol Pot was responsible for the death of thousands of people. Thatcher made it worse by blocking aid to those that had escape from Pol Pot so they starved to death or died of sickness. That is what a real terrorist does. There was no noble aim of a peaceful solution about it. Thatcher never apologized for that. She just trusted her friends at the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph to cover it up; which they did. Fortunately other more decent publications and proper journalists didn't.

Bert the Head

Epsom 22 May 17 6.32pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You are responsible for most of it.

The real hypocrisy is that the right wing press peddle the idea that Corbyn is a terrorist because he openly spoke to the IRA because he knew that they would have to be spoken to if every there was to be a peace deal. It was quite a visionary thing to do when you look back at what happened to bring about peace - a dialogue was opened with IRA and this lead to peace. I don't see this as an act of terrorism.

Meanwhile Thatcher was undertaking a real act of terrorism by sending British soldiers to train and arm Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge with the aim of trying put them back into power after the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia (Kampuchea as it was at the time).
This was after it was known that Pol Pot was responsible for the death of thousands of people. Thatcher made it worse by blocking aid to those that had escape from Pol Pot so they starved to death or died of sickness. That is what a real terrorist does. There was no noble aim of a peaceful solution about it.

Thatcher never apologized for that. She just trusted her friends at the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph to cover it up; which they did. Fortunately other more decent publications and proper journalists didn't.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 6.54pm
Originally posted by Bert the Head The real hypocrisy is that the right wing press peddle the idea that Corbyn is a terrorist because he openly spoke to the IRA because he knew that they would have to be spoken to if every there was to be a peace deal. It was quite a visionary thing to do when you look back at what happened to bring about peace - a dialogue was opened with IRA and this lead to peace. I don't see this as an act of terrorism. Meanwhile Thatcher was undertaking a real act of terrorism by sending British soldiers to train and arm Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge with the aim of trying put them back into power after the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia (Kampuchea as it was at the time). This was after it was known that Pol Pot was responsible for the death of thousands of people. Thatcher made it worse by blocking aid to those that had escape from Pol Pot so they starved to death or died of sickness. That is what a real terrorist does. There was no noble aim of a peaceful solution about it. Thatcher never apologized for that. She just trusted her friends at the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph to cover it up; which they did. Fortunately other more decent publications and proper journalists didn't. well said that man !

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 6.54pm

Originally posted by Bert the Head

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 7.08pm
So jeremy corbyn is rewriting the manifesto ! Andrew neil to Theresa, priceless,,,,,,,,,

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 7.08pm

So jeremy corbyn is rewriting the manifesto ! Andrew neil to Theresa, priceless,,,,,,,,,

Mstrobez 22 May 17 7.24pm
This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question. We're the Arthur over ere!

Mstrobez

22 May 17 7.24pm

This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question.

We're the Arthur over ere!

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 7.26pm
Originally posted by Mstrobez This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question. Yes, i dont dislike her as a person, but if this is the best we can do its a tad worrying!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 7.26pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question.

Yes, i dont dislike her as a person, but if this is the best we can do its a tad worrying!

pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 22 May 17 7.27pm
Originally posted by Mstrobez This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question. BREXIT BREXIT STRONG AND STEADY. Out of her depth. totally out of her depth. A Tory f***ed over by Andrew Neil. easy questions but no answers, no costings. The milk snatcher was a far better politician. Edited by pefwin (22 May 2017 7.30pm) "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 22 May 17 7.27pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

This interview with Andrew Neil is an absolute car crash. No wonder she won't debate, hasn't answered 1 single question.

BREXIT BREXIT STRONG AND STEADY.

Out of her depth. totally out of her depth.

A Tory f***ed over by Andrew Neil. easy questions but no answers, no costings.

The milk snatcher was a far better politician.

Edited by pefwin (22 May 2017 7.30pm)

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

Mstrobez 22 May 17 7.29pm
I have my reservations about Corbyn and labour policies as a whole but I couldn't look myself in the mirror voting for her. If voting labour is the only chance of change then so be it. The women is just full of s*** We're the Arthur over ere!

Mstrobez

22 May 17 7.29pm

I have my reservations about Corbyn and labour policies as a whole but I couldn't look myself in the mirror voting for her. If voting labour is the only chance of change then so be it. The women is just full of s***

We're the Arthur over ere!

Mstrobez 22 May 17 7.30pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Yes, i dont dislike her as a person, but if this is the best we can do its a tad worrying! I don't even think she believes she's good enough to be PM. Never thought I'd miss Dave but I took him a lot more seriously than this! We're the Arthur over ere!

Mstrobez

22 May 17 7.30pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Yes, i dont dislike her as a person, but if this is the best we can do its a tad worrying!

I don't even think she believes she's good enough to be PM. Never thought I'd miss Dave but I took him a lot more seriously than this!

We're the Arthur over ere!

Kermit8 Hevon 22 May 17 7.43pm
Originally posted by matt_himself No, deffo yours. What do you think? Or are you going to dodge the answer again? You'll have to remind me what the question was again but I do remember first time around it was nonsensical trolling so if you could expand on it a little so that i could engage that would be tickety-boo. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 22 May 17 7.43pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

No, deffo yours.

What do you think? Or are you going to dodge the answer again?

You'll have to remind me what the question was again but I do remember first time around it was nonsensical trolling so if you could expand on it a little so that i could engage that would be tickety-boo.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Kermit8 Hevon 22 May 17 7.55pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch The argument being that the breakfast was of more benefit to people who work and have to drop kids off. So they don't lose free meals, they still get one, just not lunch. Also, I was under the impression that low income families and those on benefit will still get free lunches it just wont be a blanket provision. I could be wrong though Just don't see how it could work going by my daughter's primary. Kids aren't allowed to be on school premises before 8.35 and any that are are in 'The Breakfast Club' which has to be paid for and is not cheap. Lunch is much better, inclusive, bigger and more fun for the kids than a piece of toast and cornflakes at 8:15a.m Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 22 May 17 7.55pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

The argument being that the breakfast was of more benefit to people who work and have to drop kids off.

So they don't lose free meals, they still get one, just not lunch.

Also, I was under the impression that low income families and those on benefit will still get free lunches it just wont be a blanket provision. I could be wrong though

Just don't see how it could work going by my daughter's primary. Kids aren't allowed to be on school premises before 8.35 and any that are are in 'The Breakfast Club' which has to be paid for and is not cheap.

Lunch is much better, inclusive, bigger and more fun for the kids than a piece of toast and cornflakes at 8:15a.m

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 22 May 17 8.00pm
Originally posted by pefwin BREXIT BREXIT STRONG AND STEADY. Out of her depth. totally out of her depth. A Tory f*ed over by Andrew Neil. easy questions but no answers, no costings. The milk snatcher was a far better politician. Edited by pefwin (22 May 2017 7.30pm) I would agree that all of the major parties' campaigns have been a cluster f*. In their defence, I suppose there is a lot more media to spread themselves around and therefore a lot less time to prepare.

Hrolf The Ganger

22 May 17 8.00pm

Originally posted by pefwin

BREXIT BREXIT STRONG AND STEADY.

Out of her depth. totally out of her depth.

A Tory f***ed over by Andrew Neil. easy questions but no answers, no costings.

The milk snatcher was a far better politician.

Edited by pefwin (22 May 2017 7.30pm)

I would agree that all of the major parties' campaigns have been a cluster f***. In their defence, I suppose there is a lot more media to spread themselves around and therefore a lot less time to prepare.

Hrolf The Ganger 22 May 17 8.02pm
Originally posted by Bert the Head The real hypocrisy is that the right wing press peddle the idea that Corbyn is a terrorist because he openly spoke to the IRA because he knew that they would have to be spoken to if every there was to be a peace deal. It was quite a visionary thing to do when you look back at what happened to bring about peace - a dialogue was opened with IRA and this lead to peace. I don't see this as an act of terrorism. Meanwhile Thatcher was undertaking a real act of terrorism by sending British soldiers to train and arm Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge with the aim of trying put them back into power after the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia (Kampuchea as it was at the time). This was after it was known that Pol Pot was responsible for the death of thousands of people. Thatcher made it worse by blocking aid to those that had escape from Pol Pot so they starved to death or died of sickness. That is what a real terrorist does. There was no noble aim of a peaceful solution about it. Thatcher never apologized for that. She just trusted her friends at the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph to cover it up; which they did. Fortunately other more decent publications and proper journalists didn't. A totally different subject but don't let me stop you with your diversion.

Hrolf The Ganger

22 May 17 8.02pm

Originally posted by Bert the Head

Meanwhile Thatcher was undertaking a real act of terrorism by sending British soldiers to train and arm Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge with the aim of trying put them back into power after the Vietnamese had kicked them out of Cambodia (Kampuchea as it was at the time).
This was after it was known that Pol Pot was responsible for the death of thousands of people. Thatcher made it worse by blocking aid to those that had escape from Pol Pot so they starved to death or died of sickness. That is what a real terrorist does. There was no noble aim of a peaceful solution about it.

A totally different subject but don't let me stop you with your diversion.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 8.03pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Just don't see how it could work going by my daughter's primary. Kids aren't allowed to be on school premises before 8.35 and any that are are in 'The Breakfast Club' which has to be paid for and is not cheap. Lunch is much better, inclusive, bigger and more fun for the kids than a piece of toast and cornflakes at 8:15a.m This lot are now charging kids £1.50 or £2 just to eat their sandwiches in the dinner hall , its the free market economy, why ever not!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 May 17 8.03pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Lunch is much better, inclusive, bigger and more fun for the kids than a piece of toast and cornflakes at 8:15a.m

This lot are now charging kids £1.50 or £2 just to eat their sandwiches in the dinner hall , its the free market economy, why ever not!

Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 May 17 8.12pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch I would normally agree but this is happening too often. Also, generally speaking, just because the public doesn't like an issue doesn't automatically make it wrong Yes I'm doing my own u-turn. I did think it was good they listen to reaction and adjust or scrap policies but now I'm starting to think that if you think something should be done and is what you believe in, why not do it? And if it shouldn't have been in there, why was it? It's like someone apologising for something they didn't mean. Edited by Rudi Hedman (22 May 2017 8.21pm) COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 22 May 17 8.12pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

I would normally agree but this is happening too often.

Also, generally speaking, just because the public doesn't like an issue doesn't automatically make it wrong

Yes I'm doing my own u-turn.

I did think it was good they listen to reaction and adjust or scrap policies but now I'm starting to think that if you think something should be done and is what you believe in, why not do it? And if it shouldn't have been in there, why was it?

It's like someone apologising for something they didn't mean.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (22 May 2017 8.21pm)

COYP

hedgehog50 Croydon 22 May 17 8.21pm
Did anyone hear the Greens launch their manifesto today. If you didn't know it was for real you would have thought it was a comedy show taking the mick. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 22 May 17 8.21pm

Did anyone hear the Greens launch their manifesto today. If you didn't know it was for real you would have thought it was a comedy show taking the mick.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Bert the Head Epsom 22 May 17 8.57pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Yes I'm doing my own u-turn. I did think it was good they listen to reaction and adjust or scrap policies but now I'm starting to think that if you think something should be done and is what you believe in, why not do it? And if it shouldn't have been in there, why was it? It's like someone apologising for something they didn't mean. Edited by Rudi Hedman (22 May 2017 8.21pm) May has form on making u-turns. The idea that she Strong and Stable is a joke. Hinkley Point Nuclear Plant May initially said the Chinese would be blocked from building it and then agreed they could build it BREXIT May campaigned for Remain during the EU referendum, arguing that Brexit would risk "Britain’s future. Our influence around the world. Our security. And our prosperity". You wouldn't know that today – Ms May is now the face of Brexit. National Insurance for self-employed workers. In Theresa May's first full Budget as Prime Minister, the Chancellor announced a rise in National Insurance for self-employed workers. The policy was panned as a White Van Tax by the press and it was pointed out that it broke a Tory manifesto pledge to never raise taxes. Days later, the policy was scrapped. Workers on boards to give them a say in decision- making. During her campaign to be leader Theresa May said she would speak for workers and work for a fairer Britain. She only outlined one policy to this effect: companies would be forced to put workers on boards to give them a say in decision-making. Shortly after she became Prime Minister it was reported that the policy had been dropped, following lobbying from businesses. Hey-presto, the Tory manifesto effectively says putting workers on boards will be optional. Holding an Election The Prime Minister and Downing Street repeatedly said she wouldn't hold an election, arguing that it would risk the stability of the country that was needed to deliver Brexit. Then, one day after MPs returned to Westminster after Easter recess, she called an emergency press conference and said she would be holding an election.

Bert the Head

Epsom 22 May 17 8.57pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Yes I'm doing my own u-turn.

It's like someone apologising for something they didn't mean.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (22 May 2017 8.21pm)

May has form on making u-turns. The idea that she Strong and Stable is a joke.

Hinkley Point Nuclear Plant
May initially said the Chinese would be blocked from building it and then agreed they could build it

BREXIT
May campaigned for Remain during the EU referendum, arguing that Brexit would risk "Britain’s future. Our influence around the world. Our security. And our prosperity". You wouldn't know that today – Ms May is now the face of Brexit.

National Insurance for self-employed workers.
In Theresa May's first full Budget as Prime Minister, the Chancellor announced a rise in National Insurance for self-employed workers. The policy was panned as a White Van Tax by the press and it was pointed out that it broke a Tory manifesto pledge to never raise taxes. Days later, the policy was scrapped.

Workers on boards to give them a say in decision-
making.
During her campaign to be leader Theresa May said she would speak for workers and work for a fairer Britain. She only outlined one policy to this effect: companies would be forced to put workers on boards to give them a say in decision-making. Shortly after she became Prime Minister it was reported that the policy had been dropped, following lobbying from businesses. Hey-presto, the Tory manifesto effectively says putting workers on boards will be optional.

Holding an Election
The Prime Minister and Downing Street repeatedly said she wouldn't hold an election, arguing that it would risk the stability of the country that was needed to deliver Brexit. Then, one day after MPs returned to Westminster after Easter recess, she called an emergency press conference and said she would be holding an election.

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