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cpfc_chap koh samui 08 Sep 19 11.27pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal? No deals going to be good enough for the current sent of mps!! I expect if all deals are rejected and no deals off the table they'll be expecting article 50 to be revoked! The only way to sort this is to have GE.

cpfc_chap

koh samui 08 Sep 19 11.27pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal?

No deals going to be good enough for the current sent of mps!! I expect if all deals are rejected and no deals off the table they'll be expecting article 50 to be revoked!

The only way to sort this is to have GE.

cryrst The garden of England 08 Sep 19 11.30pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What part of the "Referendum result" not being to quit the EU without a deal and causing avoidable damage don't YOU understand? What part of that we live in a Parliamentary and not a direct democracy don't YOU understand? I won't join in the personal insults, but if the cap fits............... There is no evidence at all to back up your 'damage' line. Stop thinking every mp who bats for your side knows more than the ones who dont. All ifs and buts and might and might not.

cryrst

The garden of England 08 Sep 19 11.30pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What part of the "Referendum result" not being to quit the EU without a deal and causing avoidable damage don't YOU understand?

What part of that we live in a Parliamentary and not a direct democracy don't YOU understand?

I won't join in the personal insults, but if the cap fits...............

There is no evidence at all to back up your 'damage' line.
Stop thinking every mp who bats for your side knows more than the ones who dont.
All ifs and buts and might and might not.

tome Inner Tantalus Time. 09 Sep 19 12.14am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal? A big part of the problem. The referendum largely said keep things the way they are, or change by leaving. But there are lots of different ways of doing that. Hence why there is a case for another referendum to decide whether any of these ways are actually what people want. Should have included that in the process from the start, and trigger Article 50 once these options and there implications were clearer. A one and a two...

tome

Inner Tantalus Time. 09 Sep 19 12.14am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal?

A big part of the problem. The referendum largely said keep things the way they are, or change by leaving. But there are lots of different ways of doing that.

Hence why there is a case for another referendum to decide whether any of these ways are actually what people want. Should have included that in the process from the start, and trigger Article 50 once these options and there implications were clearer.

A one and a two...

ex hibitionist Hastings 09 Sep 19 12.30am
Originally posted by cpfc_chap So if Labour came into power again should we not let them because they generally mess up the economy one way or another? labour didn't do black Wednesday or austerity, as long as we have separation between public and private again, not these quasi autonomous govt funded unaccountable gravy trains full of unaccountable lazy management screwing the ordinary worker: southern rail, nhs, carillion, academies, private probation and many more … it aint foreigners or benefit cheats who are bleeding the country's wealth, it's a new class of unaccountable management - where once we needed thatcher to tame the unions now we need John McDonnell to take a machete to management

ex hibitionist

Hastings 09 Sep 19 12.30am

Originally posted by cpfc_chap

So if Labour came into power again should we not let them because they generally mess up the economy one way or another?

labour didn't do black Wednesday or austerity, as long as we have separation between public and private again, not these quasi autonomous govt funded unaccountable gravy trains full of unaccountable lazy management screwing the ordinary worker: southern rail, nhs, carillion, academies, private probation and many more … it aint foreigners or benefit cheats who are bleeding the country's wealth, it's a new class of unaccountable management - where once we needed thatcher to tame the unions now we need John McDonnell to take a machete to management

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Sep 19 1.41am
[Link] Ladies & Gentlemen from a couple of years ago, but these are the sort of f***wits stopping us from leaving the EU. Purge,Unelect them, Get rid. Also some posters (you know who?) risible suggestion 'That they know better' well & truly put to bed. Most of these morons are incapable of functioning outside the Westminster bubble. Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Sep 19 1.41am

[Link]

Ladies & Gentlemen from a couple of years ago, but these are the sort of f***wits stopping us from leaving the EU. Purge,Unelect them, Get rid. Also some posters (you know who?) risible suggestion 'That they know better' well & truly put to bed. Most of these morons are incapable of functioning outside the Westminster bubble.

Pro USA & Israel

davenotamonkey 09 Sep 19 1.54am
Good old Lolney. Wasn't she done for expenses fraud? Then deselected? Turns out the Limp Dems don't really ned to bother campaigning. They just gain 4.5% of the vote in any given constituency, then get some unprincipled piece of s*** lying traitor to stick two fingers up at the party that funded them, the manifesto they were elected on, and the 40%+ of voters that elected them, in order to defect to a party amazingly containing two oxymorons in their party name. Time we changed the law to evict these squatters. Mandatory by-election upon defection / resignation.

davenotamonkey

09 Sep 19 1.54am

Good old Lolney. Wasn't she done for expenses fraud? Then deselected?

Turns out the Limp Dems don't really ned to bother campaigning. They just gain 4.5% of the vote in any given constituency, then get some unprincipled piece of s*** lying traitor to stick two fingers up at the party that funded them, the manifesto they were elected on, and the 40%+ of voters that elected them, in order to defect to a party amazingly containing two oxymorons in their party name.

Time we changed the law to evict these squatters. Mandatory by-election upon defection / resignation.

Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 6.03am
Originally posted by silvertop This is a thread about Brexit. How many boat people came from the EU? Probably all of them

Midlands Eagle

09 Sep 19 6.03am

Originally posted by silvertop

This is a thread about Brexit. How many boat people came from the EU?

Probably all of them

Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 6.05am
Originally posted by davenotamonkey <snip< Time we changed the law to evict these squatters. Mandatory by-election upon defection / resignation. Wisbech will go bright red with apoplexy when he reads that. MPs aren't delegates you know PS. I agree with you

Midlands Eagle

09 Sep 19 6.05am

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

<snip<

Time we changed the law to evict these squatters. Mandatory by-election upon defection / resignation.

Wisbech will go bright red with apoplexy when he reads that. MPs aren't delegates you know

PS. I agree with you

Spiderman Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.07am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Another one bites the dust over Boris Johnson, the career buffoon and liar, and Dominic Cummings, terminal c*, and their disastrous strategy or lack thereof. Anyone who thinks the conservative party is better off without seasoned, intelligent, reasonable, moderate thinkers like Ken Clarke,** is a tit. [Tweet Link] I am sure over the years you have hated people like Ken Clarke, the party is better off without the dinosaur. Having worked for him, he is very much not reasonable or moderate

Spiderman

Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.07am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Another one bites the dust over Boris Johnson, the career buffoon and liar, and Dominic Cummings, terminal c***, and their disastrous strategy or lack thereof.

Anyone who thinks the conservative party is better off without seasoned, intelligent, reasonable, moderate thinkers like Ken Clarke, is a tit.

[Tweet Link]

I am sure over the years you have hated people like Ken Clarke, the party is better off without the dinosaur. Having worked for him, he is very much not reasonable or moderate

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 7.09am
Originally posted by silvertop Very amusing. Glad you think so, youre paying for them!!

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 7.09am

Originally posted by silvertop

Very amusing.

Glad you think so, youre paying for them!!

Spiderman Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.09am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Scripted "put downs" tested in focus groups for effectiveness are no way to run a democracy! We are seeing a government run by personal advisers whose sole role is to find ways to get around the democratic will of Parliament. No wonder that one cabinet member has already quit in disgust. How long before others follow and, if things start going obviously pear shaped, they throw Johnson under the bus, install Gove as interim PM, accept the instruction to extend, and call a GE. There are already mutterings being leaked! Like Alistair Campbell did you mean

Spiderman

Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.09am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Scripted "put downs" tested in focus groups for effectiveness are no way to run a democracy!

We are seeing a government run by personal advisers whose sole role is to find ways to get around the democratic will of Parliament.

No wonder that one cabinet member has already quit in disgust. How long before others follow and, if things start going obviously pear shaped, they throw Johnson under the bus, install Gove as interim PM, accept the instruction to extend, and call a GE. There are already mutterings being leaked!

Like Alistair Campbell did you mean

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 7.11am
Originally posted by ex hibitionist labour didn't do black Wednesday or austerity, as long as we have separation between public and private again, not these quasi autonomous govt funded unaccountable gravy trains full of unaccountable lazy management screwing the ordinary worker: southern rail, nhs, carillion, academies, private probation and many more … it aint foreigners or benefit cheats who are bleeding the country's wealth, it's a new class of unaccountable management - where once we needed thatcher to tame the unions now we need John McDonnell to take a machete to management We dont need Commie Corbyn or Commie McDonnell for anything they will screw the country up even more than it is now

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 09 Sep 19 7.11am

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

We dont need Commie Corbyn or Commie McDonnell for anything they will screw the country up even more than it is now

Spiderman Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.15am
Originally posted by silvertop This is a thread about Brexit. How many boat people came from the EU? Technically all of them, as they were in France before crossing the Channel. If they were genuine refugeesthey would have sought sanctuary in the first safe country they arrived at however these are economic migrants. Those arriving by boat are the tip of the iceberg, similar undocumented migrants arrive at airports everyday

Spiderman

Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.15am

Originally posted by silvertop

This is a thread about Brexit. How many boat people came from the EU?

Technically all of them, as they were in France before crossing the Channel.
If they were genuine refugeesthey would have sought sanctuary in the first safe country they arrived at however these are economic migrants. Those arriving by boat are the tip of the iceberg, similar undocumented migrants arrive at airports everyday

Spiderman Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.20am
Originally posted by ex hibitionist labour didn't do black Wednesday or austerity, as long as we have separation between public and private again, not these quasi autonomous govt funded unaccountable gravy trains full of unaccountable lazy management screwing the ordinary worker: southern rail, nhs, carillion, academies, private probation and many more … it aint foreigners or benefit cheats who are bleeding the country's wealth, it's a new class of unaccountable management - where once we needed thatcher to tame the unions now we need John McDonnell to take a machete to management Wasn't it Labour in 2010 who said "sorry there is no money left"?

Spiderman

Horsham 09 Sep 19 7.20am

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

Wasn't it Labour in 2010 who said "sorry there is no money left"?

Badger11 Beckenham 09 Sep 19 8.04am
Amber Rudd said it was wrong to sack 21 "loyal" Tory MP's and that Boris is turning the Tories into an extreme right wing party. However it's not loyal to vote against your party's main policy and with the opposition. What would be loyal is for those rebels to support the government whilst trying to change party policy on Brexit. They would have had the perfect opportunity to do this in the next few weeks at the Tory party conference where policy is decided. However if you are not prepared to abide by the majority within your own party then I am afraid you need to look for a different party. It's not too late if the rebels would agree to support Brexit until we have left I am sure the Boris and the party would be fine with them campaigning to re-join the EU afterwards. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 09 Sep 19 8.04am

Amber Rudd said it was wrong to sack 21 "loyal" Tory MP's and that Boris is turning the Tories into an extreme right wing party.

However it's not loyal to vote against your party's main policy and with the opposition.

What would be loyal is for those rebels to support the government whilst trying to change party policy on Brexit.

They would have had the perfect opportunity to do this in the next few weeks at the Tory party conference where policy is decided.

However if you are not prepared to abide by the majority within your own party then I am afraid you need to look for a different party.

It's not too late if the rebels would agree to support Brexit until we have left I am sure the Boris and the party would be fine with them campaigning to re-join the EU afterwards.

One more point

chris123 hove actually 09 Sep 19 8.13am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle What part of the "Referendum result" not being to quit the EU without a deal and causing avoidable damage don't YOU understand? What part of that we live in a Parliamentary and not a direct democracy don't YOU understand? I won't join in the personal insults, but if the cap fits............... Surely the EU have made it clear that the deal can't be changed and Parliament has voted it down three times anyway. There is no other deal. As far as damage is concerned, many of us want the Government to crack on negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world and no deal is far from damaging, it's enabling.

chris123

hove actually 09 Sep 19 8.13am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What part of the "Referendum result" not being to quit the EU without a deal and causing avoidable damage don't YOU understand?

What part of that we live in a Parliamentary and not a direct democracy don't YOU understand?

I won't join in the personal insults, but if the cap fits...............

Surely the EU have made it clear that the deal can't be changed and Parliament has voted it down three times anyway. There is no other deal. As far as damage is concerned, many of us want the Government to crack on negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world and no deal is far from damaging, it's enabling.

Badger11 Beckenham 09 Sep 19 8.59am
If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen. It may actually be easier to do a deal post Brexit. The EU has put down a red line over the Irish border and doesn't want to be seen backing down. The EU also does not want to be seen rewarding us. Once we leave without a deal the EU will be forced to deal with that Irish issue one way or another. At the moment the issues are theoretical and diputed post Brexit they will be reality. Whatever solution they come up with that will be the basis for any negotiation. Like most I would prefer a deal but if we leave without one I still think that at some point in the not too distant future we will end up with one that the EU and Parliament can live with. Politics is getting in the way of business. Post Brexit the EU politicians can claim they stood firm and didn't let the UK get away with it. The issues from both sides will known and I think common sense will prevail. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 09 Sep 19 8.59am

If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen.

It may actually be easier to do a deal post Brexit. The EU has put down a red line over the Irish border and doesn't want to be seen backing down. The EU also does not want to be seen rewarding us.

Once we leave without a deal the EU will be forced to deal with that Irish issue one way or another. At the moment the issues are theoretical and diputed post Brexit they will be reality.

Whatever solution they come up with that will be the basis for any negotiation.

Like most I would prefer a deal but if we leave without one I still think that at some point in the not too distant future we will end up with one that the EU and Parliament can live with.

Politics is getting in the way of business. Post Brexit the EU politicians can claim they stood firm and didn't let the UK get away with it. The issues from both sides will known and I think common sense will prevail.

One more point

Midlands Eagle 09 Sep 19 9.55am
Originally posted by Badger11 If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen. The prima donnas running the EU might not want to negotiate after Brexit but the German motor manufacturers, French farmers and Spanish tourist industry will put pressure on the EU to come up with a trade deal as they won't want to lose their lucrative markets

Midlands Eagle

09 Sep 19 9.55am

Originally posted by Badger11

If we leave without a deal it doesn't mean that we stop negotiating if the EU is willing to listen.

The prima donnas running the EU might not want to negotiate after Brexit but the German motor manufacturers, French farmers and Spanish tourist industry will put pressure on the EU to come up with a trade deal as they won't want to lose their lucrative markets

Mapletree Croydon 09 Sep 19 9.57am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle The prima donnas running the EU might not want to negotiate after Brexit but the German motor manufacturers, French farmers and Spanish tourist industry will put pressure on the EU to come up with a trade deal as they won't want to lose their lucrative markets Perhaps so. But of course the EU won't want to lose the EU.

Mapletree

Croydon 09 Sep 19 9.57am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Perhaps so.

But of course the EU won't want to lose the EU.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.09am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal? All it asked was a binary question, to remain or to leave. How we remained was obvious. How we left wasn't specified but as an expectation that we would do so after first negotiating a new arrangement,, acceptable to both parties had been commonly understood during the campaign it is reasonable for Parliament to demand that this be established. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Sep 19 10.09am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And what part of the ballot paper included leaving with or without a deal?

All it asked was a binary question, to remain or to leave.

How we remained was obvious.

How we left wasn't specified but as an expectation that we would do so after first negotiating a new arrangement,, acceptable to both parties had been commonly understood during the campaign it is reasonable for Parliament to demand that this be established.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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