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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 11 Sep 19 1.07pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You would take your wife to a hurricane devastated country would you? Not pause for a moment and maybe change your plans?

Your analogy doesn't work though does it?

While it's in no-one's interest for the UK to leave without a deal no-one wants it to drag on any longer either. So by forcing it off the table it puts the pressure onto the EU to try hard to find something that will enable our Parliament to accept. It also puts pressure on Johnson to try too as unless he does he won't be PM for much longer.

So a better analogy would be that your car salesman faces the sack unless he manages to find a deal on a car that you can accept. So you are both motivated.



show me where I said Id take her to a hurricane devastated country, give you a clue I didnt..
Why do the EU care if we have a deal or not....according to you they dont need us so deal or no deal, they couldnt care less...according to the likes of you we are the ones going to suffer, not them, so they can just let us 'crash out' with no deal, why do they care?

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 11 Sep 19 2.03pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I'm unable to fully talk about my work in an open context. I work with supposed refugees on a daily basis. In private, you learn a lot. In public these people are all victims.
For example, speaking to one I was dealing with recently he told me he was South African and was here for a better life. In his asylum case he is from the Congo fleeing civil war - I'm not supposed to know that but I have a friend. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I see it every day. I reported it to my boss and they shrugged their shoulders. There is a conflict of interests when we are paid by numbers - quantity means funding.
I have been incredibly tempted to report the whole thing to immigration but people will lose their jobs and I doubt I will be thanked.
Do some research on whistleblowers in Ireland and you will see what I mean.
I will admit this outright on here - I'm not sure anyone on here works with asylum seekers. I have been for a few years now and I am increasingly anti-immigration to the point of disliking even the individuals. Yet tomorrow I will meet a new batch. I would say straight off the boat but many fly with airlines I couldn't afford.
There was an interesting Dublin incident recently that illustrates this. A taxi driver sexually assaulted a passenger - turned out his entire identity was fake. When the authorities investigated they found that over 80 percent of foreign taxi drivers in Dublin had fake papers and were not genuine asylum seekers at all. They had been paying for fake papers and having them stamped by a corrupt Gard (policeman). I believe the charge was 300 euro. The Gard has not been charged yet.

Here is some independent proof on this:

[Link]

Worryingly there have been no investigations in the rest of the country.

Here is a general piece on asylum seekers but it is not the mail or the express or anything like that.

[Link]

And here is an EU political journal that talks about what the US customs thinks of the EU - along with some interesting stats on Syrian passports.

[Link]

On a personal note, I interviewed three Algerians last year. All were posing as Syrians. I finished the interview with 'why are you seeking asylum from Algeria?'.
'Life is very hard there.'
We kept them on our programme. Funding for three refugees - genuine or not, not our problem.
I guess people will do anything for a better life and I find it hard to blame them. So when you meet your next Syrian asylum seeker just have a little think. And yes, I meet genuine ones every day too

Having worked for Border Force for 28 years I can concur with everything in your post

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 11 Sep 19 2.09pm

Originally posted by becky

If they are looking at conscripting all 18-35 year olds, this will mean all those young people will get even more chance to live and work in the EU - whether they want to or not!

Hope Maple'skids enjoy it

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 11 Sep 19 2.16pm

Originally posted by becky

If they are looking at conscripting all 18-35 year olds, this will mean all those young people will get even more chance to live and work in the EU - whether they want to or not!

Never going to happen....ask Wissie

 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 3.18pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Hope Maple'skids enjoy it

Oh for heaven's sake. Look up in the sky, someone has written 'credulous'. Really.

Flippin false news really gets my goat. It's so laughable I can't believe people post it. I also wonder from where it originates, in whose interest may it be to cut European military cooperation off at the knees, hmmm.

But, to put you out of your misery:

Recently a claim about supposed plans for an EU army has been going viral again on Facebook.

The post claims that Britain will be forced to join an EU army unless the UK leaves the EU. It includes a screenshot of a 2016 article in the Express reporting then-armed forces minister Penny Mordaunt saying this during the EU referendum campaign.

The text accompanying the image suggests this EU army will use some form of conscription. Both claims are incorrect.

The UK could not be “forced” to participate in EU military policies even if we stay in the EU.

Whether or not EU nations wish to create an “EU army”, and regardless of what that might actually entail, the European Commission can’t propose laws about security or defence. On issues like this, member countries effectively have a veto, so the UK would only take part if it chose to.

There are no formal plans in place for an EU army, and so there are no “EU regulations” on drafting people into it.

The EU does have various policies for defensive and security cooperation. For example, under the Common Security and Defence Policy, EU countries can pool military funding and resources. The UK participates in military operations through this policy.

The EU has also established Permanent Structured Cooperation (PESCO) a strategy which aims to “jointly develop defence capabilities and make them available for EU military operations” which the UK has chosen not to participate in.

 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 3.21pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Haha. Hope all those Tories who voted for this tosser are loving the epic fail that is his premiership.

Every single vote has gone against him, now this.

Comedy.

If only there was some way that the Tory voters could have worked out that Mr Johnson is capable of maintaining a poker face whilst telling enormous lies. Maybe some previous history for example - I always make sure I take references when hiring. I am sure that then they would not have got themselves into this mess.

 

Invalid user 2019 Flag 11 Sep 19 3.44pm

Poll of NI voters:

Leave the UK and join ROI 51% Remaining in the UK 49% (Lord Ashcroft, 30/8-2/9)

 

becky Flag over the moon 11 Sep 19 3.52pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Scottish judges rule Boris Johnson's prorogation unlawful - bong!!!!

Can they reconvene?

Anyone's guess - is there anything Johnson can do right?


But that would only be unlawful in Scotland - and Parliament is in England - so maybe just the Scottish constituency MP's have to reconvene to comply with the law?

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

Invalid user 2019 Flag 11 Sep 19 3.56pm

Originally posted by becky


But that would only be unlawful in Scotland - and Parliament is in England - so maybe just the Scottish constituency MP's have to reconvene to comply with the law?

It's winging its way to the Supreme Court I believe. Never a dull moment.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Sep 19 4.33pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

If only there was some way that the Tory voters could have worked out that Mr Johnson is capable of maintaining a poker face whilst telling enormous lies. Maybe some previous history for example - I always make sure I take references when hiring. I am sure that then they would not have got themselves into this mess.

What a purposefully childlike take you have on reality.

Politics is about lying. That is what politicians do and Remainers are taking lies to a new level with their disgusting tactics.
They need to be knocked back and then some or this country will implode.

A Scottish Remainer brings a case to court in Scotland purely for political reasons where unelected judges make a ruling, and you think that should overrule an elected government?
And once again all designed to overturn a democratic referendum vote.
The reason Parliament is suspended is to allow Brexit to happen on time and avoid these undemocratic Remainer pricks from delaying it again.

Shame shame shame.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Sep 2019 4.33pm)

 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 5.35pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a purposefully childlike take you have on reality.

Politics is about lying. That is what politicians do and Remainers are taking lies to a new level with their disgusting tactics.
They need to be knocked back and then some or this country will implode.

A Scottish Remainer brings a case to court in Scotland purely for political reasons where unelected judges make a ruling, and you think that should overrule an elected government?
And once again all designed to overturn a democratic referendum vote.
The reason Parliament is suspended is to allow Brexit to happen on time and avoid these undemocratic Remainer pricks from delaying it again.

Shame shame shame.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Sep 2019 4.33pm)

I think you will find my grip on reality is cello thank you. My spaghetti is well oiled.

I just love the way you accept that those who represent you should not have the basic morality that you yourself espouse. It's diffrent cos they is important innit. Or, perhaps, this is all a lie and you are really a hairdresser from Redhill called Sonia.

Johnson lied and got caught out, get over it. It's not the first time. Still, the ends justify the means eh?

Edited by Mapletree (11 Sep 2019 5.36pm)

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 11 Sep 19 5.45pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

If only there was some way that the Tory voters could have worked out that Mr Johnson is capable of maintaining a poker face whilst telling enormous lies. Maybe some previous history for example - I always make sure I take references when hiring. I am sure that then they would not have got themselves into this mess.

Blimey you've got a job agency as well.
Jiminez, he has a music shop full of stringed instruments.

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 11 Sep 19 5.47pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Scottish judges rule Boris Johnson's prorogation unlawful - bong!!!!

Can they reconvene?

Anyone's guess - is there anything Johnson can do right?

He can be your prime minister.
Oh hang on he is.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Sep 19 5.49pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I think you will find my grip on reality is cello thank you. My spaghetti is well oiled.

I just love the way you accept that those who represent you should not have the basic morality that you yourself espouse. It's diffrent cos they is important innit. Or, perhaps, this is all a lie and you are really a hairdresser from Redhill called Sonia.

Johnson lied and got caught out, get over it. It's not the first time. Still, the ends justify the means eh?


Edited by Mapletree (11 Sep 2019 5.36pm)

In this case.

When you are up against conniving, undemocratic, self serving arseholes then you have to fight fire with fire.

Johnson is doing his best to deliver Brexit as voted for by the majority.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 5.52pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I think you will find my grip on reality is cello thank you. My spaghetti is well oiled.

I just love the way you accept that those who represent you should not have the basic morality that you yourself espouse. It's diffrent cos they is important innit. Or, perhaps, this is all a lie and you are really a hairdresser from Redhill called Sonia.

Johnson lied and got caught out, get over it. It's not the first time. Still, the ends justify the means eh?

Edited by Mapletree (11 Sep 2019 5.36pm)

Those Judges clearly believed Johnson had lied to parliament and misled the Queen.

Even if the supreme court overturn it, it is still enormously damaging.

How do the EU etc. deal with such a flawed person.

Even if some classic euro fudge was found and a deal concocted, Johnson simply does not have the numbers to get it through.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Sep 19 5.58pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Those Judges clearly believed Johnson had lied to parliament and misled the Queen.

Even if the supreme court overturns it, it is still enormously damaging.

How do the EU etc. deal with such a flawed person.

Even if some classic euro fudge was found and a deal concocted, Johnson simply does not have the numbers to get it through.

So you are saying that no deal should be illegal and that a deal should be rejected.

So basically you are blocking Brexit despite the people voting for it and regardless of the details of any deal?

And what if there was a totally unjustified second referendum and Leave won again. Presumably, Remainers would try to overturn that one too.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Sep 2019 5.59pm)

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Sep 19 6.03pm

Originally posted by the silurian


show me where I said Id take her to a hurricane devastated country, give you a clue I didnt..
Why do the EU care if we have a deal or not....according to you they dont need us so deal or no deal, they couldnt care less...according to the likes of you we are the ones going to suffer, not them, so they can just let us 'crash out' with no deal, why do they care?

It was me who used the analogy so that you could face the reality of circumstances having sufficiently changed that you needed to change your mind. You either dodged the question or failed to understand it.

Of course the EU care whether we finally leave with a deal or not, because the latter would hurt them too. If our economy declines then their sales to us suffer as well. If we start to buy elsewhere then their sales to us also decline.

Like everyone else though they have other things to be considered and weighed so it isn't a deal at any price for them, just as it isn't for us. It just requires balancing. It seems to me that as we are almost there it would be daft to throw it all away on the altar of the Irish border problem. I don't under estimate either the importance of which, or the difficulties involved in overcoming them but if it takes longer to find the answers then wait we must.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 6.09pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Blimey you've got a job agency as well.
Jiminez, he has a music shop full of stringed instruments.

Used to run one in Croydon many moons ago. Did it when I left teaching at Ashburton as it happens.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 11 Sep 19 6.16pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Those Judges clearly believed Johnson had lied to parliament and misled the Queen.

Even if the supreme court overturn it, it is still enormously damaging.

How do the EU etc. deal with such a flawed person.

Even if some classic euro fudge was found and a deal concocted, Johnson simply does not have the numbers to get it through.

I see this as a big problem too, and one that hasn't yet been really examined.

If Johnson does manage to agree a deal, which for me would have to be "May's" deal in new clothes with the backstop renamed as the fallback, with Johnson claiming it could be thrown out by the UK Parliament if ever implemented, then would Corbyn agree to pass it?

I suspect not as his chances of an election then go up in smoke.

Johnson would "reluctantly" request the extension, we do get an election which Johnson would likely win by a landslide campaigning on "his" deal.

So I am beginning to think we will end up with something being put before the House in October.

I think Johnson's change of tone is very significant as is the rejection of Farage's overtures.

Was all this a cunning plan, or just a fortunate fall of the cards? We might never know, but that won't stop people claiming the credit.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 11 Sep 19 6.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I see this as a big problem too, and one that hasn't yet been really examined.

If Johnson does manage to agree a deal, which for me would have to be "May's" deal in new clothes with the backstop renamed as the fallback, with Johnson claiming it could be thrown out by the UK Parliament if ever implemented, then would Corbyn agree to pass it?

I suspect not as his chances of an election then go up in smoke.

Johnson would "reluctantly" request the extension, we do get an election which Johnson would likely win by a landslide campaigning on "his" deal.

So I am beginning to think we will end up with something being put before the House in October.

I think Johnson's change of tone is very significant as is the rejection of Farage's overtures.

Was all this a cunning plan, or just a fortunate fall of the cards? We might never know, but that won't stop people claiming the credit.

We should also consider that the EU has really had enough of us and thinks that divorce means that.

 

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