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silvertop Portishead 11 Sep 19 8.03pm
Originally posted by Mapletree [quote=silvertop; That and the fact that he is an out and out marxist. You say that as if it’s a bad thing. I do. It's a system that has proved itself to fail every time.

silvertop

Portishead 11 Sep 19 8.03pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

[quote=silvertop;

That and the fact that he is an out and out marxist.

You say that as if it’s a bad thing.

I do. It's a system that has proved itself to fail every time.

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 8.08pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The most productive time is a reproductive time. Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later.

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 8.08pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The most productive time is a reproductive time.

Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later.

Stirlingsays 11 Sep 19 8.19pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later. What about caving? Surely caving would kind of fit in more with the national positioning? I will admit to being quite pleased with this one. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

11 Sep 19 8.19pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later.

What about caving? Surely caving would kind of fit in more with the national positioning?

I will admit to being quite pleased with this one.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

silvertop Portishead 11 Sep 19 8.36pm
Originally posted by eritheagle That democracy no longer exists cos remain should no longer be an option! That .makes no sense. Also if leavers get in a strop and withdraw their vote then remainers will dominate politics for a generation.

silvertop

Portishead 11 Sep 19 8.36pm

Originally posted by eritheagle

That democracy no longer exists cos remain should no longer be an option!

That .makes no sense.

Also if leavers get in a strop and withdraw their vote then remainers will dominate politics for a generation.

cryrst The garden of England 11 Sep 19 8.54pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later. Ha ha

cryrst

The garden of England 11 Sep 19 8.54pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Yes, I didn’t take up parachuting until a couple of years later.

Ha ha

Hrolf The Ganger 11 Sep 19 9.02pm
Originally posted by silvertop Perhaps it's the gritted teeth that made you misread my post but I made it clear I did accept the referendum after the vote. My new referendum is the only thing I can think of to solve a problem that is a consequence of so many combining factors. No deal wins out we go. Remain wins status quo. As I said putting a deal not strong enough to convince parliament would never get on the ballot paper. You're wasting your thoughts on that one. Twaddle. A second referendum is invalid. Do you seriously think that those idiot Remainers would accept a second leave win any more than the first anyway? Are there really people that genuinely can't see that Remainers are determined to block Brexit under any circumstances? All the political posturing is just misdirection.

Hrolf The Ganger

11 Sep 19 9.02pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Perhaps it's the gritted teeth that made you misread my post but I made it clear I did accept the referendum after the vote. My new referendum is the only thing I can think of to solve a problem that is a consequence of so many combining factors.

No deal wins out we go.

Remain wins status quo.

As I said putting a deal not strong enough to convince parliament would never get on the ballot paper. You're wasting your thoughts on that one.

Twaddle.

A second referendum is invalid.

Do you seriously think that those idiot Remainers would accept a second leave win any more than the first anyway?

Are there really people that genuinely can't see that Remainers are determined to block Brexit under any circumstances?

All the political posturing is just misdirection.

Stirlingsays 11 Sep 19 9.18pm
480 MPs voted Remain and 159 voted Leave.....that's 75 percent for remain with only 25 percent for leave. Yet 51.9 percent voted leave in the referendum. We need an election to better reflect the will of the people. The people are sovereign not paid for elites....all of whose wages as MPs are are paid for by taxpayers. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Sep 2019 9.19pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

11 Sep 19 9.18pm

480 MPs voted Remain and 159 voted Leave.....that's 75 percent for remain with only 25 percent for leave.

Yet 51.9 percent voted leave in the referendum.

We need an election to better reflect the will of the people.

The people are sovereign not paid for elites....all of whose wages as MPs are are paid for by taxpayers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Sep 2019 9.19pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.20pm
Originally posted by cryrst Ha ha You may scoff my good man, but 'tis true

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.20pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Ha ha

You may scoff my good man, but 'tis true

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.22pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays What about caving? Surely caving would kind of fit in more with the national positioning? I will admit to being quite pleased with this one. Maybe go kart racing would be more apposite. Round and round and round in a very small circuit. Yup, I was in the speleology society at University.

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.22pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What about caving? Surely caving would kind of fit in more with the national positioning?

I will admit to being quite pleased with this one.

Maybe go kart racing would be more apposite. Round and round and round in a very small circuit.

Yup, I was in the speleology society at University.

Stirlingsays 11 Sep 19 9.24pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Maybe go kart racing would be more apposite. Round and round and round in a very small circuit. Yup, I was in the speleology society at University. Any hairy moments? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

11 Sep 19 9.24pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Maybe go kart racing would be more apposite. Round and round and round in a very small circuit.

Yup, I was in the speleology society at University.

Any hairy moments?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Any hairy moments? In parachuting I nearly got wiped out by Lewis Collins from The Professionals when he did a low hook turn where he didn't a ought a. In caving scared myself stupid getting stuck in a corkscrew.

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 9.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Any hairy moments?

In parachuting I nearly got wiped out by Lewis Collins from The Professionals when he did a low hook turn where he didn't a ought a.

In caving scared myself stupid getting stuck in a corkscrew.

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 11 Sep 19 9.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It was me who used the analogy so that you could face the reality of circumstances having sufficiently changed that you needed to change your mind. You either dodged the question or failed to understand it. Of course the EU care whether we finally leave with a deal or not, because the latter would hurt them too. If our economy declines then their sales to us suffer as well. If we start to buy elsewhere then their sales to us also decline. Like everyone else though they have other things to be considered and weighed so it isn't a deal at any price for them, just as it isn't for us. It just requires balancing. It seems to me that as we are almost there it would be daft to throw it all away on the altar of the Irish border problem. I don't under estimate either the importance of which, or the difficulties involved in overcoming them but if it takes longer to find the answers then wait we must. Oh I understood your post, you just think youre so clever dont you, seems like you are in a minority though, most people think youre just an argumentative old fool. What are the massive changes in circumstances? We voted OUT and most MPs are doing their utmost to renege on that deal....'we will honour the result of the referendum'...yeah right! Self serving bunch they are!! If, as you say the EU dont want a no deal, they are certainly going about it in a strange way....if they had only given Cameron a little bit when he went to them, none of this s*** would be happening....they really just want to punish us for leaving and to stop anyone else wanting to leave...Frexit? Spanexit? Certainly lots of people here in France would love to get out Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm)

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 11 Sep 19 9.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It was me who used the analogy so that you could face the reality of circumstances having sufficiently changed that you needed to change your mind. You either dodged the question or failed to understand it.

Of course the EU care whether we finally leave with a deal or not, because the latter would hurt them too. If our economy declines then their sales to us suffer as well. If we start to buy elsewhere then their sales to us also decline.

Like everyone else though they have other things to be considered and weighed so it isn't a deal at any price for them, just as it isn't for us. It just requires balancing. It seems to me that as we are almost there it would be daft to throw it all away on the altar of the Irish border problem. I don't under estimate either the importance of which, or the difficulties involved in overcoming them but if it takes longer to find the answers then wait we must.

Oh I understood your post, you just think youre so clever dont you, seems like you are in a minority though, most people think youre just an argumentative old fool. What are the massive changes in circumstances? We voted OUT and most MPs are doing their utmost to renege on that deal....'we will honour the result of the referendum'...yeah right! Self serving bunch they are!!
If, as you say the EU dont want a no deal, they are certainly going about it in a strange way....if they had only given Cameron a little bit when he went to them, none of this s*** would be happening....they really just want to punish us for leaving and to stop anyone else wanting to leave...Frexit? Spanexit? Certainly lots of people here in France would love to get out

Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm)

Stirlingsays 11 Sep 19 9.45pm
Originally posted by the silurian Oh I understood your post, you just think youre so clever dont you, seems like you are in a minority though, most people think youre just an argumentative old fool. What are the massive changes in circumstances? We voted OUT and most MPs are doing their utmost to renege on that deal....'we will honour the result of the referendum'...yeah right! Self serving bunch they are!! If, as you say the EU dont want a no deal, they are certainly going about it in a strange way....if they had only given Cameron a little bit when he went to them, none of this s*** would be happening....they really just want to punish us for leaving and to stop anyone else wanting to leave...Frexit? Spanexit? Certainly lots of people here in France would love to get out Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm) Yep, if Merkel had given something to Cameron on immigration and EU laws that would have been enough to get Johnson and Gove on board for remain and it's very unlikely they would have lost. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

11 Sep 19 9.45pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm)

Yep, if Merkel had given something to Cameron on immigration and EU laws that would have been enough to get Johnson and Gove on board for remain and it's very unlikely they would have lost.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.05pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yep, if Merkel had given something to Cameron on immigration and EU laws that would have been enough to get Johnson and Gove on board for remain and it's very unlikely they would have lost. Now that is true. The EU screwed up as much as the UK.

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.05pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep, if Merkel had given something to Cameron on immigration and EU laws that would have been enough to get Johnson and Gove on board for remain and it's very unlikely they would have lost.

Now that is true. The EU screwed up as much as the UK.

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Sep 19 10.05pm
Originally posted by the silurian Oh I understood your post, you just think youre so clever dont you, seems like you are in a minority though, most people think youre just an argumentative old fool. What are the massive changes in circumstances? We voted OUT and most MPs are doing their utmost to renege on that deal....'we will honour the result of the referendum'...yeah right! Self serving bunch they are!! If, as you say the EU dont want a no deal, they are certainly going about it in a strange way....if they had only given Cameron a little bit when he went to them, none of this s* would be happening....they really just want to punish us for leaving and to stop anyone else wanting to leave...Frexit? Spanexit? Certainly lots of people here in France would love to get out Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm) Correct of course. Don't believe everything the UK media tell you. I have met (& know loads of European ex pats living here) & to a man probably 95% say that they all wish to leave the EU (or get the f* out as most of them put it). The Poles I know top that list probably the Italians next & a surprising amount of French as well. Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Sep 19 10.05pm

Originally posted by the silurian

Edited by the silurian (11 Sep 2019 9.40pm)

Correct of course. Don't believe everything the UK media tell you. I have met (& know loads of European ex pats living here) & to a man probably 95% say that they all wish to leave the EU (or get the f*** out as most of them put it). The Poles I know top that list probably the Italians next & a surprising amount of French as well.

Pro USA & Israel

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.08pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Correct of course. Don't believe everything the UK media tell you. I have met (& know loads of European ex pats living here) & to a man probably 95% say that they all wish to leave the EU (or get the f*** out as most of them put it). The Poles I know top that list probably the Italians next & a surprising amount of French as well. You should get out more. I think ex pats living in the US may not be genuinely representative eh?

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.08pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

You should get out more. I think ex pats living in the US may not be genuinely representative eh?

Matov 11 Sep 19 10.42pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger All the political posturing is just misdirection. Absolutely. With notable exceptions such as the Lib-Dems. They make no bones about just revoking A50 and whilst I naturally disagree vehemently with them at least there is an honesty to their stance. Plus it would be far more legally binding. The referendum was advisory. No getting around that. And politicians lie all the time. Of course, that would not be the end but at least our ire is aimed at Westminster rather than our fellow Brits. The only credible options are Leave or else A50 is revoked. A second referendum with a Remain option on it is the most damaging of any options available because it offers nothing beyond cementing the divide. And it has zero credibility. Nobody will take the result seriously and Brexit carries on infecting every aspect of British life with the danger that millions of people lose their faith in ever voting again. What would be the point? Pure window dressing for Remainers to maintain their narcissistic self-image as the good guys. Peak virtue signalling all whilst ensuring they get the result they want. There simply would be no credible Leave option on offer. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

11 Sep 19 10.42pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

All the political posturing is just misdirection.

Absolutely. With notable exceptions such as the Lib-Dems. They make no bones about just revoking A50 and whilst I naturally disagree vehemently with them at least there is an honesty to their stance. Plus it would be far more legally binding. The referendum was advisory. No getting around that. And politicians lie all the time. Of course, that would not be the end but at least our ire is aimed at Westminster rather than our fellow Brits.

The only credible options are Leave or else A50 is revoked. A second referendum with a Remain option on it is the most damaging of any options available because it offers nothing beyond cementing the divide. And it has zero credibility. Nobody will take the result seriously and Brexit carries on infecting every aspect of British life with the danger that millions of people lose their faith in ever voting again. What would be the point?

Pure window dressing for Remainers to maintain their narcissistic self-image as the good guys. Peak virtue signalling all whilst ensuring they get the result they want. There simply would be no credible Leave option on offer.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Sep 19 10.42pm
Originally posted by Mapletree You should get out more. I think ex pats living in the US may not be genuinely representative eh? Just like Europeans living in London may not necessarily be representative eh? I'd tell you to get out more, but today alone you've probably cured Leukemia & sailed the Barrier Reef (& all before Lunch)!! Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Sep 19 10.42pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

You should get out more. I think ex pats living in the US may not be genuinely representative eh?

Just like Europeans living in London may not necessarily be representative eh? I'd tell you to get out more, but today alone you've probably cured Leukemia & sailed the Barrier Reef (& all before Lunch)!!

Pro USA & Israel

.TUX. 11 Sep 19 10.46pm
Originally posted by silvertop That .makes no sense. Also if leavers get in a strop and withdraw their vote then remainers will dominate politics for a generation. How many more generations do you wish to screw? Buy Litecoin.

.TUX.

11 Sep 19 10.46pm

Originally posted by silvertop

That .makes no sense.

Also if leavers get in a strop and withdraw their vote then remainers will dominate politics for a generation.

How many more generations do you wish to screw?

Buy Litecoin.

Mapletree Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.51pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Just like Europeans living in London may not necessarily be representative eh? I'd tell you to get out more, but today alone you've probably cured Leukemia & sailed the Barrier Reef (& all before Lunch)!! Not that it affects any of my points. But we talk with and message people in other EU countries most days. Their views are not even close to those you describe.

Mapletree

Croydon 11 Sep 19 10.51pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Not that it affects any of my points. But we talk with and message people in other EU countries most days. Their views are not even close to those you describe.

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