Firstly, I'm not a socialist. Secondly, wage slaves are the reality of globalisation, which in my view is an inevitability and feel free to fight against it but you'll lose. Ergo the need for low paid jobs to be filled by immigrants is nothing new, and will continue to be the standard until automation takes over.

You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy

Re. the horses – I agree, but facts are facts. Not everyone in the EU has employment issues. Quite the opposite. So don't pass it off as though every country is affected. If the point had been worded differently the reply would not have been necessary – eg unemployment is high in the eastern bloc countries which is causing problems in more affluent western ones etc. etc.

You make paying our 'own people' a better wage seem as simple as flicking a light switch. Firstly, who are our 'own people'. Lets for simplicity say people who were born here. Then just stop and think about the complexity of that. If we kicked out all non-brits tomorrow, and raised the pay to a level that would be acceptable to resident labour, how much debt would that accrue? How much money would need to be set aside to subsidise said wages to ensure our businesses remained competitive? and so on and so on. Don't make out these things are easy.

Osborne said the jobs would go the day after the vote, NOT when Brexit happened....HE LIED whether you like it or not HE LIED!!

and yes I do believe the MPs are all in it for themselves, no other reason, except for one MP!

Edited by the silurian (12 Sep 2019 3.46pm)

What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it.

Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen.

The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that.

So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong.

Read this report at the time:-

[Link]

What you say is a popular Leave myth. Osborne published a Treasury analysis and did not state his own opinion. No doubt the current Chancellor has a similar analysis but chooses not to publicise it.

Forecasts can be wrong, because they are just forecasts. This forecast has been mitigated by the uncertainty that has surrounded the actual outcome with so many still uncertain of what will actually happen.

The basic message remains as true today as it did in 2016, even if people like you try to deny it. There are bales of straws in the wind which indicate that.

So Osborne didn't "lie". He gave oxygen to an official report which supported his political stance. Forecasts cannot either lie or be truthful. They can just be proven right, or wrong.

Read this report at the time:-

[Link]

Ok you believe he didnt lie, he forcasted badly......I and many others think he lied
Osborne and Cameron didnt 'lose their jobs',they both ran away like the cowards they are when it didnt go their way.
Have 600,000 people lost their jobs as a result of the referendum result, as I just saw on TV that employment is at a record high?

Twaddle.

A second referendum is invalid.

Do you seriously think that those idiot Remainers would accept a second leave win any more than the first anyway?

Are there really people that genuinely can't see that Remainers are determined to block Brexit under any circumstances?

All the political posturing is just misdirection.

I say this hand on heart that it’s a shame there has been no control of immigration from the EU or any member states when all EU migrants I’ve met have been good to meet.

But that isn’t the full story.

Yeah kind of Ironic that the EU believe that all fish caught in British waters belong to the EU, but anyone caught floundering in a rubber dinghy is the UKs problem. We should be shipping them straight back & dumping them onto French & Belgian beaches.

The naivety is all with those who believe that playing bluff with our future is a credible, let alone responsible, way for a government to behave.

This isn't poker when you are risking your own money. You are risking our children's future.

If you seriously think those who oppose this strategy, including Corbyn, don't understand it then you are really naive. Of course they do, but they can see just how foolish it is.

It might look like a good tactic to the loud mouth down the pub but it really isn't because it can so easily go completely wrong. You just don't take that kind of risk in the hope it will put on enough pressure to get what you want. The EU will not blink in those circumstances because they have far too much to lose by doing so. They would swallow hard and accept the pain of a no deal.