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General Election 2017


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Hansy Flag 23 May 17 11.25am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


Their manifesto covers laws that would be converted from EU law into UK law i.e. ones that parliament deem to be most worthy, principally those that protect workers' rights and the environment, which the Tories would scrap.

I see no evidence that, if Labour win, their MPs won't back such legislation. They only don't like Corbyn as they don't think he can win. If he does win I would imagine many would be keen to get down to the job of governing.

Yeah, he has got a good chance now yet most still don't campaign with him. Polls are hard to go by though, as we saw with Ed Miliband winning in Polls only to lose out to a shock majority for DC.

If Labour wins, and they cannot gain single market access/free movement with the EU. There will need to be immigration laws, and trade laws also. I wish we had David Miliband back :/

Edited by Hansy (23 May 2017 11.26am)

 

serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 23 May 17 11.52am

Since election rules have kicked in for the media, Corbyn's net positivity rating among the public has climbed 41 points.

Labour have made massive gains in Wales last week, and even in England they're sitting on around 38% of the vote.

Every time May gets on to a podium with the words 'strong and stable' smeared across it, most of the country will be laughing at her. This is an astonishing time in British politics, and anyone who thinks the Tories aren't bricking it clearly hasn't seen their recent media performances.

I reckon the next set of polls will show the lead down to less than 5 points. Once it's in the margin of error, it's anyone's game. Can the Tories hold together and find enough mud to sling to stop Corbyn's current momentum? Probably, but I seriously doubt they'll now get the majority May was looking for.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 11.58am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

A flat tax is unfair as it would mean people on lower incomes pay a higher percentage of their income in tax than rich people do. That's grossly unfair.

Thankfully none of the parties contesting this election are advocating such an appalling policy.

VAT is a flat Tax and that is what we are talking about. I would rather increase that than income tax because you have a choice to spend or not.

Using the term 'unfair' is entirely subjective in this case. I suppose you think it's 'unfair' that some people are wealthier than others.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 11.59am

Originally posted by serial thriller

Since election rules have kicked in for the media, Corbyn's net positivity rating among the public has climbed 41 points.

Labour have made massive gains in Wales last week, and even in England they're sitting on around 38% of the vote.

Every time May gets on to a podium with the words 'strong and stable' smeared across it, most of the country will be laughing at her. This is an astonishing time in British politics, and anyone who thinks the Tories aren't bricking it clearly hasn't seen their recent media performances.

I reckon the next set of polls will show the lead down to less than 5 points. Once it's in the margin of error, it's anyone's game. Can the Tories hold together and find enough mud to sling to stop Corbyn's current momentum? Probably, but I seriously doubt they'll now get the majority May was looking for.

The man who wants to 'negotiate' with ISIS.

Don't vote for this idiot.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 23 May 17 12.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

VAT is a flat Tax and that is what we are talking about. I would rather increase that than income tax because you have a choice to spend or not.

Using the term 'unfair' is entirely subjective in this case. I suppose you think it's 'unfair' that some people are wealthier than others.

Necessities you need to live are not a choice. And it's not a flat tax. It's known the world over as a regressive tax because, as we've explained, the percentage of your income paid in tax lowers as you earn more.

You also save more which means less tax revenue and probably raising the tax rate.

 


COYP

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 12.26pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Necessities you need to live are not a choice. And it's not a flat tax. It's known the world over as a regressive tax because, as we've explained, the percentage of your income paid in tax lowers as you earn more.

You also save more which means less tax revenue and probably raising the tax rate.

Please don't condescend. You aren't that clever.

Your view is heavily prejudiced by your politics. Necessities are not taxed and of course you pay a lower percentage of income in VAT if you are better off. It's called being better off.
What you are suggesting is that we should all be equalised. I would rather have a choice to spend or not spend rather than pay income tax.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 May 2017 12.27pm)

 

Hansy Flag 23 May 17 12.30pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Since election rules have kicked in for the media, Corbyn's net positivity rating among the public has climbed 41 points.

Labour have made massive gains in Wales last week, and even in England they're sitting on around 38% of the vote.

Every time May gets on to a podium with the words 'strong and stable' smeared across it, most of the country will be laughing at her. This is an astonishing time in British politics, and anyone who thinks the Tories aren't bricking it clearly hasn't seen their recent media performances.

I reckon the next set of polls will show the lead down to less than 5 points. Once it's in the margin of error, it's anyone's game. Can the Tories hold together and find enough mud to sling to stop Corbyn's current momentum? Probably, but I seriously doubt they'll now get the majority May was looking for.

I wouldn't read too much into Polls.

- Ed Miliband was neck and neck with DC in 2015. Yet DC won by majority.
- Had Corbyn like 20 points down? Now into single figures.
- It is targeted, and is a popular vote.

Anything can happen.

Edited by Hansy (23 May 2017 12.30pm)

 

Stirlingsays Flag 23 May 17 12.33pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

Since election rules have kicked in for the media, Corbyn's net positivity rating among the public has climbed 41 points.

Labour have made massive gains in Wales last week, and even in England they're sitting on around 38% of the vote.

Every time May gets on to a podium with the words 'strong and stable' smeared across it, most of the country will be laughing at her. This is an astonishing time in British politics, and anyone who thinks the Tories aren't bricking it clearly hasn't seen their recent media performances.

I reckon the next set of polls will show the lead down to less than 5 points. Once it's in the margin of error, it's anyone's game. Can the Tories hold together and find enough mud to sling to stop Corbyn's current momentum? Probably, but I seriously doubt they'll now get the majority May was looking for.

You are amusing if nothing else.... on a day like this at least that's something.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 May 2017 12.34pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 23 May 17 12.38pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

It is already here with 20% VAT [VAT of course being something that membership of the EEC (EU) insisted upon]

VAT is a regressive tax. The debate is on replacing income tax with what I assume would have to be a higher sales tax.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 23 May 17 12.41pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Please don't condescend. You aren't that clever.

Your view is heavily prejudiced by your politics. Necessities are not taxed and of course you pay a lower percentage of income in VAT if you are better off. It's called being better off.
What you are suggesting is that we should all be equalised. I would rather have a choice to spend or not spend rather than pay income tax.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 May 2017 12.27pm)

You're not being very clever mate.

Value added tax being regressive is an economic belief/theory/proven effect and term given to such a tax system/idea yet you're in favour of it. If it was such a good idea it would've been a tax system in the western world by now or at least for a time and the tea party would be visiting Saudi Arabia right now.

Oh and I wasn't being condescending. You're being a bit stubborn don't ya think?

Oh and the better off would save more and the worker off would be even worse off, getting into debt, gap widening etc etc.

 


COYP

Mr_Gristle Flag In the land of Whelk Eaters 23 May 17 12.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The man who wants to 'negotiate' with ISIS.

Don't vote for this idiot.

As opposed to voting for the idiots that fall over themselves to back the regimes that actively promote the spread of extreme wahhabi islam ?

Quality advice.

 


Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 23 May 17 12.47pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

VAT is a regressive tax. The debate is on replacing income tax with what I assume would have to be a higher sales tax.

I agree with you for once, Income Tax is much fairer than VAT.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Stirlingsays Flag 23 May 17 12.50pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

As opposed to voting for the idiots that fall over themselves to back the regimes that actively promote the spread of extreme wahhabi islam ?

Quality advice.

ISIS themselves attack the house of Saud and have been doing it for quite a while. Extremist Wahhabi groups before them did.

I don't think you quite get it yourself.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 23 May 17 12.51pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

VAT is a regressive tax. The debate is on replacing income tax with what I assume would have to be a higher sales tax.

I agree with you for once, Income Tax is much fairer than VAT.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 12.55pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You're not being very clever mate.

Value added tax being regressive is an economic belief/theory/proven effect and term given to such a tax system/idea yet you're in favour of it. If it was such a good idea it would've been a tax system in the western world by now or at least for a time and the tea party would be visiting Saudi Arabia right now.

Oh and I wasn't being condescending. You're being a bit stubborn don't ya think?

Oh and the better off would save more and the worker off would be even worse off, getting into debt, gap widening etc etc.

We have VAT and income tax right now.
I see no problem with that system but I do see a problem with putting an even higher burden of tax on those who already pay 40% and 45%. There is an argument for a higher rate for the super rich but they only represent a tiny amount. You might not like VAT but it allows for choice to spend or not. That is it's advantage whether you like it or not. The better off still pay more income tax which is reasonable all the time it does not become pointless to be ambitious. Your ideology risks that outcome.

 

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 23 May 17 12.56pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Please don't condescend. You aren't that clever.

Your view is heavily prejudiced by your politics. Necessities are not taxed and of course you pay a lower percentage of income in VAT if you are better off. It's called being better off.
What you are suggesting is that we should all be equalised. I would rather have a choice to spend or not spend rather than pay income tax.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 May 2017 12.27pm)

Income tax accounts for 27% of the total tax take. VAT for 18%, some of which is paid for by exempt businesses such as charities, certain cultural and sporting organisations, private residential property rental businesses and insurance companies. So not only would VAT have to increase (by quite a lot) to cover your proposed cuts in income tax, prices of things like insurance and rent would also rise to cover the increased input costs for those businesses, which again would most adversely impact the poorest.

The only stuff that's zero rated is books and basic food stuffs. Utilities have VAT on them, tampons have VAT on, white goods have VAT. Plenty of stuff you don't have much of choice but to buy have VAT on them. Are you suggesting poor people should keep their food on the doorstep to keep cool rather than buy a fridge?

I've not seen anyone say we should be equalised, but the tax system should be progressive. Income is too unequal as it is without making matters worse.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (23 May 2017 1.00pm)

 

nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 23 May 17 12.59pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The man who wants to 'negotiate' with ISIS.

Don't vote for this idiot.

1. What did Corbyn actually say to lead you to this conclusion?

2. Hypocrite. You had a pop at me yesterday for being party political.

 

CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 23 May 17 1.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We have VAT and income tax right now.
I see no problem with that system but I do see a problem with putting an even higher burden of tax on those who already pay 40% and 45%. There is an argument for a higher rate for the super rich but they only represent a tiny amount. You might not like VAT but it allows for choice to spend or not. That is it's advantage whether you like it or not. The better off still pay more income tax which is reasonable all the time it does not become pointless to be ambitious. Your ideology risks that outcome.

An additional 5% tax on the top 5% of earners hardly seems too much. It would be broadly in line with Germany (50.5% for top earners) and lower than many other OECD countries.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 1.01pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I agree with you for once, Income Tax is much fairer than VAT.

We could scrap VAT entirely and increase income tax. I don't have a problem with that as long as middle income people don't get hammered. That is what is likely to happen. Paying 40% tax is a lot of tax already.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 May 17 1.08pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

An additional 5% tax on the top 5% of earners hardly seems too much. It would be broadly in line with Germany (50.5% for top earners) and lower than many other OECD countries.

Tax is a balancing act. I don't know what you earn but remaining disposable income is not a vast amount for the majority of people even when the earn 50 to 100k a year.
We need to be careful not to make pursuing a good career worthless.

 

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