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steeleye20 Croydon 19 Sep 19 6.22pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I can't see Johnson being defeated here but it is unjust. They are judging by the law, all written down, not our bonkers unwritten constitution. It seems that 'what did we do last time' seems to be the constitution, but who knows. Presumably a PM can just suspend a parliament whenever he feels like it. Imagine how much all this circus is costing, no such justice would be available to you or I, you have to be stinking rich like the government with taxpayer funding, or Soros. It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all. What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned. Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson.

steeleye20

Croydon 19 Sep 19 6.22pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I can't see Johnson being defeated here but it is unjust.

They are judging by the law, all written down, not our bonkers unwritten constitution.

It seems that 'what did we do last time' seems to be the constitution, but who knows.

Presumably a PM can just suspend a parliament whenever he feels like it.

Imagine how much all this circus is costing, no such justice would be available to you or I, you have to be stinking rich like the government with taxpayer funding, or Soros.

It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all.

What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned.

Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.25pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle A YouGov survey shows that there is a majority of the population that shows that they aren't happy with MPs doing their own thing and would prefer a more direct democracy [Link] Then all that is needed is for a Parliament to be elected that will change the system. Until then we have what we have. Good luck with it. I suspect that once the full implications of such a change are identified, and the potential consequences explained that many, if not most, would quickly change their minds. Right now there is an understandable tiredness with the whole situation and a need to apportion blame onto someone or something. Our system is an easy target and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Actually it isn't. Lurking behind the bushes are those who would like to become quasi dictators. As these could as easily come from the left as from the right we ought always to be careful what we wish for. Simon Jordan wasn't always a prat! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.25pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

A YouGov survey shows that there is a majority of the population that shows that they aren't happy with MPs doing their own thing and would prefer a more direct democracy

[Link]

Then all that is needed is for a Parliament to be elected that will change the system. Until then we have what we have.

Good luck with it. I suspect that once the full implications of such a change are identified, and the potential consequences explained that many, if not most, would quickly change their minds.

Right now there is an understandable tiredness with the whole situation and a need to apportion blame onto someone or something. Our system is an easy target and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Actually it isn't. Lurking behind the bushes are those who would like to become quasi dictators. As these could as easily come from the left as from the right we ought always to be careful what we wish for. Simon Jordan wasn't always a prat!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.29pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Are you saying they previously “got away” with the things which now get them suspended? If so that doesn’t speak well of the calibre of those entrusted to decide what’s best for the rest of us. From the little I have seen of some of the things that MPs used to get away with without anyone either knowing or being challenged I think that's right. The newspapers used to treat them with much more respect in the past and only attack those they saw as enemies and without TV or social media how would we know? For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.29pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Are you saying they previously “got away” with the things which now get them suspended? If so that doesn’t speak well of the calibre of those entrusted to decide what’s best for the rest of us.

From the little I have seen of some of the things that MPs used to get away with without anyone either knowing or being challenged I think that's right. The newspapers used to treat them with much more respect in the past and only attack those they saw as enemies and without TV or social media how would we know?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst The garden of England 19 Sep 19 6.31pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all. What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned. Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson. I suppose it's a big deal to lefties. Not really is it. All it means is that if the government of any colour make a decision going forwards that they can be taken to court if someone doesnt like it. I think mayor khant should be first in the box with decisions hes made.

cryrst

The garden of England 19 Sep 19 6.31pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It seems that Johnson may well lose this after all.

What that actually means is unsure, but the principle that the PM can suspend parliamentary scrutiny by prorogation could well be practically over-turned.

Just a 'rigmarole' according to Johnson.

I suppose it's a big deal to lefties.
Not really is it.
All it means is that if the government of any colour make a decision going forwards that they can be taken to court if someone doesnt like it.
I think mayor khant should be first in the box with decisions hes made.

Teddy Eagle 19 Sep 19 6.37pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle From the little I have seen of some of the things that MPs used to get away with without anyone either knowing or being challenged I think that's right. The newspapers used to treat them with much more respect in the past and only attack those they saw as enemies and without TV or social media how would we know? In that case people here are right to question their decency and public spiritedness. It shouldn’t take risk of exposure to ensure correct behaviour.

Teddy Eagle

19 Sep 19 6.37pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

In that case people here are right to question their decency and public spiritedness. It shouldn’t take risk of exposure to ensure correct behaviour.

jeeagles 19 Sep 19 6.39pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Your cynicism is unworthy. Most MPs do a thoroughly decent and public spirited job. I have a great deal of time for my own local MP, Sarah Newton who has helped me on occasions with problems. I also think Ben Bradshaw in Exeter is a sound guy but there are many more. Ben Bradshaw is a nice guy. Although my old uni housemate wrote him a letter once calling him a hypocrite for being homosexual and a godfather. He was a fat, racist from norfolk who never got a round in and failed his degree. He voted for UKIP and leave. People like him make me wish remain won.

jeeagles

19 Sep 19 6.39pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Your cynicism is unworthy. Most MPs do a thoroughly decent and public spirited job.

I have a great deal of time for my own local MP, Sarah Newton who has helped me on occasions with problems. I also think Ben Bradshaw in Exeter is a sound guy but there are many more.

Ben Bradshaw is a nice guy.

Although my old uni housemate wrote him a letter once calling him a hypocrite for being homosexual and a godfather.

He was a fat, racist from norfolk who never got a round in and failed his degree.

He voted for UKIP and leave.

People like him make me wish remain won.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.45pm
Of course the people are ultimately sovereign. No-one can argue with that fact. It's how that sovereignty works in a Parliamentary democratic system which is so often misunderstood. We exercise our sovereignty every time we go to vote in a general election. During that process we transfer it to those we elect to represent us and take decisions on our behalf. We could change that if we wanted, but that's what we have now. The Parliament that is formed by the 650 representatives can decide to directly consult the people on important issues if they so choose but they cannot, even if they wanted to, avoid their responsibility of taking the final decision. That's just the way it is. When we have such a divided nation and an equally divided Parliament problems are inevitable. Which is why I don't want any more referendums. They mislead people and build expectations that cannot be delivered. I only want GEs and then Parliament to take decisions, hopefully on constitutional issues solely on a free vote, secret ballot basis. MPs should be free of pressure and use only their consciences when making such critical judgements. In my opinion, of course. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 6.45pm

Of course the people are ultimately sovereign. No-one can argue with that fact.

It's how that sovereignty works in a Parliamentary democratic system which is so often misunderstood.

We exercise our sovereignty every time we go to vote in a general election. During that process we transfer it to those we elect to represent us and take decisions on our behalf. We could change that if we wanted, but that's what we have now.

The Parliament that is formed by the 650 representatives can decide to directly consult the people on important issues if they so choose but they cannot, even if they wanted to, avoid their responsibility of taking the final decision. That's just the way it is. When we have such a divided nation and an equally divided Parliament problems are inevitable. Which is why I don't want any more referendums. They mislead people and build expectations that cannot be delivered. I only want GEs and then Parliament to take decisions, hopefully on constitutional issues solely on a free vote, secret ballot basis. MPs should be free of pressure and use only their consciences when making such critical judgements. In my opinion, of course.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Stirlingsays 19 Sep 19 6.54pm
Well, come 31st of October an expectation, that respects the referendum result in some way, will be delivered. If it isn't, I expect things to get spicy. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Sep 2019 6.56pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Sep 19 6.54pm

Well, come 31st of October an expectation, that respects the referendum result in some way, will be delivered.

If it isn't, I expect things to get spicy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Sep 2019 6.56pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

becky over the moon 19 Sep 19 7.02pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Are you saying they previously “got away” with the things which now get them suspended? If so that doesn’t speak well of the calibre of those entrusted to decide what’s best for the rest of us. When you have an MP being allowed to Vote in the Commons wearing a tag, and outside of the usual hours of curfew that are attached to the wearing of one, then you can be certain that the calibre is not what it used to be! A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

becky

over the moon 19 Sep 19 7.02pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

When you have an MP being allowed to Vote in the Commons wearing a tag, and outside of the usual hours of curfew that are attached to the wearing of one, then you can be certain that the calibre is not what it used to be!

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 7.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Spouting on? Continuous posting of repetitive text? I always post in the context of the post I am responding to and rarely to never in an original comment. There have been far more than 50 times in this thread when the basic understanding of how our democratic system actually works is in error. Do you seriously want such mistakes to stand? This is not just an opinion by the way. It's a cold hard fact. If the point was taken and accepted then there would be no need for constant reminder. All I am doing is stating fact in the face of repeated denial of fact. So when the repeated denial of facts ceases so will the need to state the facts. Falsehoods ought never be allowed to stand unchallenged. That's how fake news spreads and conspiracy theories flourish. If things aren't true then they need to be shown not to be true and that applies just as much to me as to anyone else. So if our system isn't a Parliamentary democracy and we actually elect delegates and not representatives let someone explain why that is. No-one has yet tried to, but just go on posting the same mistaken claims. If you want any verification then listen to the lawyers presenting their case to the Supreme Court. They could hardly have been clearer on this subject and they repeated it many times to the Justices. Maybe you will believe them if you don't believe me. This matters, because unless and until folk understand that their approaches are based on a fundamental error of understanding there is no chance that this country can begin to heal. zzzzzzzzzzzzz!! Here you go again, pretending that you are so superior!!

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 19 Sep 19 7.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Spouting on? Continuous posting of repetitive text? I always post in the context of the post I am responding to and rarely to never in an original comment. There have been far more than 50 times in this thread when the basic understanding of how our democratic system actually works is in error. Do you seriously want such mistakes to stand? This is not just an opinion by the way. It's a cold hard fact.

If the point was taken and accepted then there would be no need for constant reminder. All I am doing is stating fact in the face of repeated denial of fact.

So when the repeated denial of facts ceases so will the need to state the facts.

Falsehoods ought never be allowed to stand unchallenged. That's how fake news spreads and conspiracy theories flourish. If things aren't true then they need to be shown not to be true and that applies just as much to me as to anyone else.

So if our system isn't a Parliamentary democracy and we actually elect delegates and not representatives let someone explain why that is. No-one has yet tried to, but just go on posting the same mistaken claims.

If you want any verification then listen to the lawyers presenting their case to the Supreme Court. They could hardly have been clearer on this subject and they repeated it many times to the Justices. Maybe you will believe them if you don't believe me.

This matters, because unless and until folk understand that their approaches are based on a fundamental error of understanding there is no chance that this country can begin to heal.

zzzzzzzzzzzzz!! Here you go again, pretending that you are so superior!!

Midlands Eagle 19 Sep 19 7.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Still waiting for this ignore button. You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017

Midlands Eagle

19 Sep 19 7.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Still waiting for this ignore button.

You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Sep 19 7.21pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The remark my friend was directed at your responses. Your "answer" on Mrs Miller's funding was to repeat the statement I had politely and carefully shown was false. If you can show any actual evidence that she has received anything at all from Soros, or even from the independent foundations he funds, since she left the Best for Britain group (where she did not receive anything directly but only as a group member) then feel free to provide it. Your hole must be so deep by now your toes must be burning! Time to stop? Are you totally stupid??? I said that she did receive money from the group Soros paid into and then went to getting money from the public as she is now. Please do not twist things around. I have come to the conclusion that you must sit in front of you computer thinking "Who can I upset now". You are such a know it all I can see why you have so many people telling you to button it. All I can say you must be very lonely person living down in the depths of Cornwall and have nothing better to do. Go and find your self a job and grow up. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 19 Sep 19 7.21pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The remark my friend was directed at your responses.

Your "answer" on Mrs Miller's funding was to repeat the statement I had politely and carefully shown was false. If you can show any actual evidence that she has received anything at all from Soros, or even from the independent foundations he funds, since she left the Best for Britain group (where she did not receive anything directly but only as a group member) then feel free to provide it.

Your hole must be so deep by now your toes must be burning! Time to stop?

Are you totally stupid??? I said that she did receive money from the group Soros paid into and then went to getting money from the public as she is now. Please do not twist things around.
I have come to the conclusion that you must sit in front of you computer thinking "Who can I upset now". You are such a know it all I can see why you have so many people telling you to button it.
All I can say you must be very lonely person living down in the depths of Cornwall and have nothing better to do. Go and find your self a job and grow up.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Stirlingsays 19 Sep 19 7.28pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017 The software upgrade is perhaps the Hol's 'Brexit'. Hopefully we get there. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

19 Sep 19 7.28pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017

The software upgrade is perhaps the Hol's 'Brexit'.

Hopefully we get there.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Sep 19 7.40pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Your cynicism is unworthy. Most MPs do a thoroughly decent and public spirited job. I have a great deal of time for my own local MP, Sarah Newton who has helped me on occasions with problems. I also think Ben Bradshaw in Exeter is a sound guy but there are many more. RSI Repetitive Strain Injury and obsessions with parliamentary procedure? COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 19 Sep 19 7.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Your cynicism is unworthy. Most MPs do a thoroughly decent and public spirited job.

I have a great deal of time for my own local MP, Sarah Newton who has helped me on occasions with problems. I also think Ben Bradshaw in Exeter is a sound guy but there are many more.

RSI Repetitive Strain Injury and obsessions with parliamentary procedure?

COYP

sickboy Deal or Croydon 19 Sep 19 7.46pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The software upgrade is perhaps the Hol's 'Brexit'. Hopefully we get there. Please. I dont know how much more i can take.

sickboy

Deal or Croydon 19 Sep 19 7.46pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The software upgrade is perhaps the Hol's 'Brexit'.

Hopefully we get there.

Please. I dont know how much more i can take.

W12 19 Sep 19 8.16pm
What’s going on in Blair’s “supreme” court would appear to be an elaborate stitch up. The bill of rights clearly states that this should never have been in court, yet that’s not even been mentioned in defence submissions. Get’s darker by the day.

W12 19 Sep 19 8.16pm

What’s going on in Blair’s “supreme” court would appear to be an elaborate stitch up. The bill of rights clearly states that this should never have been in court, yet that’s not even been mentioned in defence submissions. Get’s darker by the day.

chris123 hove actually 19 Sep 19 8.42pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017 Is that a fact or an opinion?

chris123

hove actually 19 Sep 19 8.42pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You ain't going to get one until the software is upgraded which I am told will be done by summer 2017

Is that a fact or an opinion?

W12 19 Sep 19 8.42pm
What we have now is a situation where a small number of unelected judges will be deciding what the elected government can and cannot do. Not a single talking head suggesting this is dangerous and undemocratic.

W12 19 Sep 19 8.42pm

What we have now is a situation where a small number of unelected judges will be deciding what the elected government can and cannot do.

Not a single talking head suggesting this is dangerous and undemocratic.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 9.09pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle In that case people here are right to question their decency and public spiritedness. It shouldn’t take risk of exposure to ensure correct behaviour. Of course, but it's also unfair to taint them all with the same brush as some do. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 9.09pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

In that case people here are right to question their decency and public spiritedness. It shouldn’t take risk of exposure to ensure correct behaviour.

Of course, but it's also unfair to taint them all with the same brush as some do.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 9.12pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Ben Bradshaw is a nice guy. Although my old uni housemate wrote him a letter once calling him a hypocrite for being homosexual and a godfather. He was a fat, racist from norfolk who never got a round in and failed his degree. He voted for UKIP and leave. People like him make me wish remain won. Is your housemate a member of the Hol by any chance? He sounds a little familiar. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 19 Sep 19 9.12pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

Ben Bradshaw is a nice guy.

Although my old uni housemate wrote him a letter once calling him a hypocrite for being homosexual and a godfather.

He was a fat, racist from norfolk who never got a round in and failed his degree.

He voted for UKIP and leave.

People like him make me wish remain won.

Is your housemate a member of the Hol by any chance? He sounds a little familiar.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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