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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Sep 19 6.06pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle PM's are not in office to play to their audience. They are there to lead the government and serve the nation. Only pleasing their base is what Trump does. Let's pray Johnson is not turning into a mini clone of him! Gladstone died well over a century ago. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Sep 19 6.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

PM's are not in office to play to their audience. They are there to lead the government and serve the nation. Only pleasing their base is what Trump does. Let's pray Johnson is not turning into a mini clone of him!

Gladstone died well over a century ago.

Red and Blue Army!

nhp61 Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 26 Sep 19 6.11pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle That's shocking. Time for a vote of no confidence Or an election...

nhp61

Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 26 Sep 19 6.11pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

That's shocking. Time for a vote of no confidence

Or an election...

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.12pm
Originally posted by Willo With respect we really are on opposite sides of the house on this matter.A divided nation and a divided HOL ! It is Parliament who have caused divisions by their failure to deliver Brexit and their repeated attempts to frustrate us from leaving the EU.Some, the Lib Dems, have unashamedly taken the stance which in effect means they don't want to respect the result of the referendum.I certainly don't condone the threats made to MPs but I cannot help concluding that they have been the architects of the bile aimed at them. Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 1.04pm) It is not Parliament that has caused the divisions. It's the holding of a referendum on a flawed basis without the then Tory government either understanding or preparing for the consequences. In seeking to quieten the Eurosceptics and see off the threat of UKIP they have plunged our country into crisis. The responsibility for the division lies squarely and solely at the door of the Tory party. The LibDems, as did the other opposition parties, accepted the calling of the referendum because they would have been outvoted if they opposed it and they too did not anticipate the mess we now have. The LibDems have though never made a secret of their desire to remain but accepted the principle of a deal being done, provided the people confirmed it was still their choice. As the first was so obviously flawed and now out of date anyway I can see their argument, even though I don't myself want that to happen. No-one designs a situation in which they get daily death threats. Those female MPs are victims and you really need to start to show some compassion towards their predicament. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.12pm

Originally posted by Willo

With respect we really are on opposite sides of the house on this matter.A divided nation and a divided HOL !

It is Parliament who have caused divisions by their failure to deliver Brexit and their repeated attempts to frustrate us from leaving the EU.Some, the Lib Dems, have unashamedly taken the stance which in effect means they don't want to respect the result of the referendum.I certainly don't condone the threats made to MPs but I cannot help concluding that they have been the architects of the bile aimed at them.

Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 1.04pm)

It is not Parliament that has caused the divisions. It's the holding of a referendum on a flawed basis without the then Tory government either understanding or preparing for the consequences. In seeking to quieten the Eurosceptics and see off the threat of UKIP they have plunged our country into crisis.

The responsibility for the division lies squarely and solely at the door of the Tory party.

The LibDems, as did the other opposition parties, accepted the calling of the referendum because they would have been outvoted if they opposed it and they too did not anticipate the mess we now have. The LibDems have though never made a secret of their desire to remain but accepted the principle of a deal being done, provided the people confirmed it was still their choice. As the first was so obviously flawed and now out of date anyway I can see their argument, even though I don't myself want that to happen.

No-one designs a situation in which they get daily death threats. Those female MPs are victims and you really need to start to show some compassion towards their predicament.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Kermit8 Hevon 26 Sep 19 6.15pm
You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆 Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄 I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ? Ah well - blind leading the blind Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 26 Sep 19 6.15pm

You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆

Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄

I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ?

Ah well - blind leading the blind

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

Stirlingsays 26 Sep 19 6.19pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆 Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄 I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ? Ah well - blind leading the blind Oh look it's the Scottish nationalist who voted for independence back to moan about people asking for independence. Still, I guess it's his thread. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2019 6.21pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

26 Sep 19 6.19pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆

Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄

I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ?

Ah well - blind leading the blind

Oh look it's the Scottish nationalist who voted for independence back to moan about people asking for independence.

Still, I guess it's his thread.

Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Sep 2019 6.21pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.20pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I think so too, but I think it will be rejected. When people actually sit down and read Mays deal, they recoil in horror. Anyone can see staying in the EU is the far better option, remember 'vassal state' ? If Johnson is still there he will offer what the EU will agree to which will be quite definitely be no good for the UK. Cancelling could restore the UKs battered reputation, its veto and its self-respect. You are almost certainly correct but persuading the voters of that would be a momentous task. People are tired of something they barely understand even the rudimentary details of. People on here are generally better informed than those I encounter in daily life but even here the level of knowledge isn't great. I feel sure we will end up with some kind of a deal and that the choice will be between no deal at all and a rehashed version of the May deal. Which is better? The jury's out. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.20pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think so too, but I think it will be rejected.

When people actually sit down and read Mays deal, they recoil in horror.

Anyone can see staying in the EU is the far better option, remember 'vassal state' ?

If Johnson is still there he will offer what the EU will agree to which will be quite definitely be no good for the UK.

Cancelling could restore the UKs battered reputation, its veto and its self-respect.

You are almost certainly correct but persuading the voters of that would be a momentous task. People are tired of something they barely understand even the rudimentary details of. People on here are generally better informed than those I encounter in daily life but even here the level of knowledge isn't great.

I feel sure we will end up with some kind of a deal and that the choice will be between no deal at all and a rehashed version of the May deal. Which is better? The jury's out.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

chris123 hove actually 26 Sep 19 6.21pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆 Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄 I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ? Ah well - blind leading the blind Who started it?

chris123

hove actually 26 Sep 19 6.21pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

You hard right pseudo-patriots still at it ? 😆

Yes of course Brexit led by a bunch of entitled buffoons taking the piss of you is still a good idea for the UK 😄

I see migration from African and Asian countries is up. Just what you’d hoped for, what ?

Ah well - blind leading the blind

Who started it?

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.22pm
Originally posted by cryrst Literally you just said it would be May's deal. Now it's a tweaked May's deal. It will have to be dressed in new clothes if Johnson is to claim ownership. If Parliament decide to take control then they could reintroduce the May deal without any changes. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.22pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Literally you just said it would be May's deal.
Now it's a tweaked May's deal.

It will have to be dressed in new clothes if Johnson is to claim ownership.

If Parliament decide to take control then they could reintroduce the May deal without any changes.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 26 Sep 19 6.23pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle PM's are not in office to play to their audience. They are there to lead the government and serve the nation. Only pleasing their base is what Trump does. Let's pray Johnson is not turning into a mini clone of him! It’s the world in which we live. Despite the evidence on this thread more people watch the X Factor than Question Time. Ciceronian rhetoric means less than Boris hanging from a zip line and he knows it.

Teddy Eagle

26 Sep 19 6.23pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It’s the world in which we live. Despite the evidence on this thread more people watch the X Factor than Question Time. Ciceronian rhetoric means less than Boris hanging from a zip line and he knows it.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Sep 19 6.23pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It is not Parliament that has caused the divisions. It's the holding of a referendum on a flawed basis without the then Tory government either understanding or preparing for the consequences. In seeking to quieten the Eurosceptics and see off the threat of UKIP they have plunged our country into crisis. The responsibility for the division lies squarely and solely at the door of the Tory party. The LibDems, as did the other opposition parties, accepted the calling of the referendum because they would have been outvoted if they opposed it and they too did not anticipate the mess we now have. The LibDems have though never made a secret of their desire to remain but accepted the principle of a deal being done, provided the people confirmed it was still their choice. As the first was so obviously flawed and now out of date anyway I can see their argument, even though I don't myself want that to happen. No-one designs a situation in which they get daily death threats. Those female MPs are victims and you really need to start to show some compassion towards their predicament. With respect I totally disagree with the general sentiments. In particular, where have I shown NO compassion for those who have received death threats ? Indeed I categorically stated that I do NOT condone such behaviour at all.It is abhorrent and totally unacceptable. The divisions, both in Parliament and the country at large are solely down to the failure of Parliamentarians to honour the result of the referendum and to deliver Brexit.The electorate are sick to the back teeth with MPs who have frustrated Brexit and unfortunately the result is often behaviour which is totally unacceptable.One cannot blame the referendum for the current outpouring of bile.I can appreciate remainers taking issue with the referendum as they lost ! We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 6.28pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Sep 19 6.23pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The responsibility for the division lies squarely and solely at the door of the Tory party.

No-one designs a situation in which they get daily death threats. Those female MPs are victims and you really need to start to show some compassion towards their predicament.

With respect I totally disagree with the general sentiments.

In particular, where have I shown NO compassion for those who have received death threats ? Indeed I categorically stated that I do NOT condone such behaviour at all.It is abhorrent and totally unacceptable.

The divisions, both in Parliament and the country at large are solely down to the failure of Parliamentarians to honour the result of the referendum and to deliver Brexit.The electorate are sick to the back teeth with MPs who have frustrated Brexit and unfortunately the result is often behaviour which is totally unacceptable.One cannot blame the referendum for the current outpouring of bile.I can appreciate remainers taking issue with the referendum as they lost !

We will have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 6.28pm)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.29pm
Originally posted by Lyons550 Do you not also feel that they're being wound up by MP's not supporting the vote of their constituencies? ....and yes you can save me the boring lecture of an MP's role If they choose to ignore their electorate then they shouldnt be shocked when people start getting irate with them. Separate issue. No MP should suffer death threats and all MPs, especially those in the government, should be mindful that nothing they say or do could be construed by anyone as an encouragement to regard those who take a different line to them as traitors, surrender monkeys, unpatriotic etc etc. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.29pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

Do you not also feel that they're being wound up by MP's not supporting the vote of their constituencies?

....and yes you can save me the boring lecture of an MP's role

If they choose to ignore their electorate then they shouldnt be shocked when people start getting irate with them.

Separate issue. No MP should suffer death threats and all MPs, especially those in the government, should be mindful that nothing they say or do could be construed by anyone as an encouragement to regard those who take a different line to them as traitors, surrender monkeys, unpatriotic etc etc.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.35pm
Originally posted by W12 Populism = what people want That's why it's popular Edited by W12 (26 Sep 2019 2.55pm) The job of any Parliament is NOT to give people what they want, but what they need. The job of the electorate is to choose that Parliament and to change it if what they are given is not, upon reflection, seen to have been the best choice. Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.35pm

Originally posted by W12

Populism = what people want

That's why it's popular

Edited by W12 (26 Sep 2019 2.55pm)

The job of any Parliament is NOT to give people what they want, but what they need. The job of the electorate is to choose that Parliament and to change it if what they are given is not, upon reflection, seen to have been the best choice.

Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.38pm
Originally posted by silvertop Good evidence to support please otherwise we are drifting into remain conspiracy nutterville. Johnson's own sister said as much today on Radio 4 as one of the possible motives for him acting as he is.She might just be closer to understanding him than others here! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.38pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Good evidence to support please otherwise we are drifting into remain conspiracy nutterville.

Johnson's own sister said as much today on Radio 4 as one of the possible motives for him acting as he is.She might just be closer to understanding him than others here!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Sep 19 6.53pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The job of any Parliament is NOT to give people what they want, but what they need. The job of the electorate is to choose that Parliament and to change it if what they are given is not, upon reflection, seen to have been the best choice. Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples. It's the economy stupid. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Sep 19 6.53pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples.

It's the economy stupid.

Red and Blue Army!

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.53pm
Originally posted by Willo With respect I totally disagree with the general sentiments. In particular, where have I shown NO compassion for those who have received death threats ? Indeed I categorically stated that I do NOT condone such behaviour at all.It is abhorrent and totally unacceptable. The divisions, both in Parliament and the country at large are solely down to the failure of Parliamentarians to honour the result of the referendum and to deliver Brexit.The electorate are sick to the back teeth with MPs who have frustrated Brexit and unfortunately the result is often behaviour which is totally unacceptable.One cannot blame the referendum for the current outpouring of bile.I can appreciate remainers taking issue with the referendum as they lost ! We will have to agree to disagree on this matter. Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 6.28pm) Not condoning whilst still criticising their motivations is not showing any compassion at all. You seem to be another who fails to recognise that the individual MPs are honour bound to use their best judgement to deliver what they believe is in their constituents and the country's best interests. Most have decided, whatever their personal views might be, that this means delivering Brexit. They have also decided that they won't do so unless and until a suitable arrangement has been made. Collectively they have decided to take "no deal" off the table. You can disagree but you aren't an elected MP. They are not frustrating Brexit at all, despite it being very frustrating. It's not the "remainers" being difficult either. It's just a mess. Which was started by Cameron. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 19 6.53pm

Originally posted by Willo

With respect I totally disagree with the general sentiments.

We will have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 6.28pm)

Not condoning whilst still criticising their motivations is not showing any compassion at all.

You seem to be another who fails to recognise that the individual MPs are honour bound to use their best judgement to deliver what they believe is in their constituents and the country's best interests. Most have decided, whatever their personal views might be, that this means delivering Brexit. They have also decided that they won't do so unless and until a suitable arrangement has been made. Collectively they have decided to take "no deal" off the table. You can disagree but you aren't an elected MP.

They are not frustrating Brexit at all, despite it being very frustrating. It's not the "remainers" being difficult either. It's just a mess. Which was started by Cameron.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Sep 19 7.13pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Not condoning whilst still criticising their motivations is not showing any compassion at all. You seem to be another who fails to recognise that the individual MPs are honour bound to use their best judgement to deliver what they believe is in their constituents and the country's best interests. Most have decided, whatever their personal views might be, that this means delivering Brexit. They have also decided that they won't do so unless and until a suitable arrangement has been made. Collectively they have decided to take "no deal" off the table. You can disagree but you aren't an elected MP. They are not frustrating Brexit at all, despite it being very frustrating. It's not the "remainers" being difficult either. It's just a mess. Which was started by Cameron. With respect, I am reminded of a word used by Johnson yesterday - "Humbug". I certainly do not accept your line of argument in relation to "Condoning" and "Compassion". Apropos the MPs judgement, Labour would have opposed ANY deal that May had agreed with the EU for their own party political ends.Accordingly one could argue that they are using their "best judgement" to deliver what they believe is in their own and their party's best interests.This is my view which differs from yours but as ever I respect your view and don't feel it necessary to use words like "Fails to recognise" in order to strengthen my case. I would be delighted to continue this debate tonight but I have arranged a tipple with a local Conservative councillor ! Have a good evening. Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 7.18pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 26 Sep 19 7.13pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not condoning whilst still criticising their motivations is not showing any compassion at all.

They are not frustrating Brexit at all, despite it being very frustrating. It's not the "remainers" being difficult either. It's just a mess. Which was started by Cameron.

With respect, I am reminded of a word used by Johnson yesterday - "Humbug".

I certainly do not accept your line of argument in relation to "Condoning" and "Compassion".

Apropos the MPs judgement, Labour would have opposed ANY deal that May had agreed with the EU for their own party political ends.Accordingly one could argue that they are using their "best judgement" to deliver what they believe is in their own and their party's best interests.This is my view which differs from yours but as ever I respect your view and don't feel it necessary to use words like "Fails to recognise" in order to strengthen my case.

I would be delighted to continue this debate tonight but I have arranged a tipple with a local Conservative councillor ! Have a good evening.

Edited by Willo (26 Sep 2019 7.18pm)

Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 19 7.14pm
The gall of the Labour party for criticising Boris for his language. Corby has reached a new low by using Jo Cox in his pathetic strategy. The only people causing division and anger in this country are Remainers by delaying Brexit.

Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 19 7.14pm

The gall of the Labour party for criticising Boris for his language.
Corby has reached a new low by using Jo Cox in his pathetic strategy. The only people causing division and anger in this country are Remainers by delaying Brexit.

cryrst The garden of England 26 Sep 19 7.14pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The job of any Parliament is NOT to give people what they want, but what they need. The job of the electorate is to choose that Parliament and to change it if what they are given is not, upon reflection, seen to have been the best choice. Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples. And how do you split that. MPs are so far up the food chain they could never know what the public want. They can guess but never be a typical member of the public. As for your remarks about no one knew what brexit meant; what does remain mean, exactly, as even remaining has changes going forwards. What are these changes and new laws as there will be some for sure. I voted remain but the more I see avoidance of what the public 'wanted'as a majority the more I know I voted the wrong way. For what it would have been worth!

cryrst

The garden of England 26 Sep 19 7.14pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Populism appeals to the worst instincts of society. Greed and selfishness being primary examples.

And how do you split that.
MPs are so far up the food chain they could never know what the public want.
They can guess but never be a typical member of the public.
As for your remarks about no one knew what brexit meant; what does remain mean, exactly,
as even remaining has changes going forwards.
What are these changes and new laws as there will be some for sure.
I voted remain but the more I see avoidance of what the public 'wanted'as a majority the more I know I voted the wrong way.
For what it would have been worth!

cryrst The garden of England 26 Sep 19 7.18pm
Originally posted by Willo With respect, I am reminded of a word used by Johnson yesterday - "Humbug". I certainly do not accept your line of argument in relation to "Condoning" and "Compassion". Apropos the MPs judgement, Labour would have opposed ANY deal that May had agreed with the EU for their own party political ends.Accordingly one could argue that they are using their "best judgement" to deliver what they believe is in their own and their party's best interests.This is my view which differs from yours but as ever I respect your view and don't feel it necessary to use words like "Fails to recognise" in order to strengthen my case. I would be delighted to continue this debate tonight but I have arranged a tipple with a local conservative councillor ! Have a good evening. Well at least you dont have to walk the dog willo. Tell your MP "power to the people". The majority! Have a drop for all the brothers and sisters and LGBTYDEHNJFVJGCBB people.

cryrst

The garden of England 26 Sep 19 7.18pm

Originally posted by Willo

With respect, I am reminded of a word used by Johnson yesterday - "Humbug".

I certainly do not accept your line of argument in relation to "Condoning" and "Compassion".

I would be delighted to continue this debate tonight but I have arranged a tipple with a local conservative councillor ! Have a good evening.

Well at least you dont have to walk the dog willo.
Tell your MP "power to the people".
The majority!
Have a drop for all the brothers and sisters and LGBTYDEHNJFVJGCBB people.

Midlands Eagle 26 Sep 19 7.21pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Leaders of the opposition are not in office to play to their audience. They are there to oppose the government and serve the nation. Only pleasing their base is what Trump does. Let's pray Corbyn is not turning into a mini clone of him! EFA

Midlands Eagle

26 Sep 19 7.21pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Leaders of the opposition are not in office to play to their audience. They are there to oppose the government and serve the nation. Only pleasing their base is what Trump does. Let's pray Corbyn is not turning into a mini clone of him!

EFA

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