The truth I'm referring to is that the 'progressive' takeover of Labour's leadership which the Labour membership enabled has ultimately failed the British working class in this country.

The fact that this would happen has been obvious to most for a very long time and yet the 'progressive' membership of the Labour party still re-elected Corbyn.

Hence supporters of Corbyn, like yourself, deserve criticism for ultimately not providing the country with what they can point to as a viable alternative. Apparently it is always someone else's fault. Not to my eyes it isn't.

The truth is that the 'progressive' takeover of Labour has been the biggest waste of time and energy since I can remember. It's so short sighted...The UK is an aging nation of home owners, where the older vote far more often...'Progressive' leadership is never going to work...You would have been far better off with keeping the 'progressive' element more low key. All you have achieved is a cementing in of a Conservative leadership.

I consider myself a red Tory so for me that is a mixed bag.

Well, based on political and social history. NHS, minimum wage, workers' rights, etc. All very much achieved from a left of centre perspective.

Blair started it all with his Tory-lite New Labour for sure and they haven't shaken off those shackles. But we have to remember that before him the right-wing media and others others had patronised, conspired and lied to 'the working classes' in order to keep more traditional Labourites like Neil Kinnock from No.10.

It was no myth that Murdoch and The Sun could sway the election either way back then.

New Labour worked to win an election and they were alright for a few years but then came 'spin' and image and the bollocks that goes with that - and The Tories do do it so much better - so you are not wrong in what you have said.

Corbyn is old Labour but I would have very little optimism in any front-bench team he put together. The same as May and her little gang. Pretty pathetic insipid bunch of politicians on both sides of the House. Worst than I can remember.

Manifesto comparisons of commitments on workers' rights, minimum wages, investment in public services, reversing cuts in working tax credits, provision of universal social care (no dementia tax).

At least if labour get in there will be a decent minimum wage and a lot less zero hours contracts.

No he is not. He is very much new left. Old Labour, going back to the likes of Attlee and Bevin, then on to a few of their heirs, basically wanted to better the lives and opportunities of ordinary British (Attlee was a great patriot) people. The new left wants to pander to various racial and social minorities and pursue dogmatic economic ideas that have been shown repeatedly to fail.

Edited by hedgehog50 (25 May 2017 10.25am)

I'm not that fond of May.....But she's a million miles better than Cameron. The blue rinse voted 'pretty boy' in not me.

I was a Davis supporter.....that's someone with talent who finally has a position befitting his talent. He will get the best deal possible for this country. The 'supplicant' positions pushed by the left in regards to the EU in this country are nothing short of a joke. They are all codeword positions for rejecting the result and looking to stay in by a sort of admitted defeat....weak as feck and negotiators would make mince meat of them.

That could mean they are better off now, but not in 4-8 years time. Labour have targeted the Young and non-voters as they do every year. This year is different I feel, as the manifesto is targeting specific age groups.

Free tuition now, but when you do find work your tax rate could increase.

Taxes only going to increase on top 5% of earners not new entrants into the labour market.

Tried and tested economics suggests their policies will provide a stronger and more stable economy so in 4-8 many (not the few) will be better off. Cuts isn't what we need.