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US election


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We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 11 Nov 16 1.28pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

So you would presumably also agree that Scotland would be entitled to review that decision if they wanted to given the UK vote.


Erm. No. Not even slightly.

It really isn't that difficult. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

The referendum question was...

Should the United Kingdom remain part of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Nothing about Scotland. London voted to remain, do you think the people of London deserve a vote on independence from the rest of the UK? Of course not.

The SNP need shut the f*ck up and start actually governing/campaigning, instead of bitching and moaning which is all they seem to f*cking do. Salmond was irritating enough, Sturgeon is just a complete and utter c*nt.

Edited by We are goin up! (11 Nov 2016 1.29pm)

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.29pm

Originally posted by Stuk

They still can't stay. They're not a member.

They would have to apply and then change currency, amongst a whole host of other things, before even being considered.

Edited by Stuk (11 Nov 2016 1.24pm)

With the UK leaving I don't think they will have the slightest difficulty in joining, although the situation would have been different as long as the UK was still a member. The EU will be falling over themselves to accommodate the Scots.

 
Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 1.30pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Scotland seems to forget that it's not an EU member, the UK is.

Exactly. I'm no expert so someone is bound to shoot me down in flames, but the three paths for Nichola Sturgeon are surely:

1) Have a second independence referendum for Scotland and if they vote out then they'll have to find their feet again and I believe re-apply to join the EU.

2) Have a second in independence referendum for Scotland and if they vote in they'll have to play ball with the rest of the UK.

3) Try to do everything they can to block Brexit.

I can see why her preference is for option 3 as I don't see the first two working well for her.

Edited by Part Time James (11 Nov 2016 1.44pm)

 
Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 1.33pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

With the UK leaving I don't think they will have the slightest difficulty in joining, although the situation would have been different as long as the UK was still a member. The EU will be falling over themselves to accommodate the Scots.

The only reason I can see the EU "falling over themselves" to accommodate Scotland is if they thought it'd be two fingers to the rest of the UK.

 
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.33pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!


Erm. No. Not even slightly.

It really isn't that difficult. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

The referendum question was...

Should the United Kingdom remain part of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Nothing about Scotland. London voted to remain, do you think the people of London deserve a vote on independence from the rest of the UK? Of course not.

The SNP need shut the f*ck up and start actually governing/campaigning, instead of bitching and moaning which is all they seem to f*cking do. Salmond was irritating enough, Sturgeon is just a complete and utter c*nt.

Edited by We are goin up! (11 Nov 2016 1.29pm)


Calm down a moment. The EU referendum result is binding on Scotland but it is up to Scotland to decide whether it is more important to them to remain in the UK or the EU.


Now that "really isn't that difficult"

 
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.34pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

The only reason I can see the EU "falling over themselves" to accommodate Scotland is if they thought it'd be two fingers to the rest of the UK.

....and?

 
Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 11 Nov 16 1.35pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

With the UK leaving I don't think they will have the slightest difficulty in joining, although the situation would have been different as long as the UK was still a member. The EU will be falling over themselves to accommodate the Scots.

Whilst they may want to, it's not that easy, the criteria is quite strict and very time consuming

There are five recognised candidates for future membership of the European Union: Turkey (applied in 1987), Macedonia (applied in 2004), Montenegro (applied in 200, Albania (applied in 2009) and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations.

 

the dignified don't even enter in the game

We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 11 Nov 16 1.39pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe


Calm down a moment. The EU referendum result is binding on Scotland but it is up to Scotland to decide whether it is more important to them to remain in the UK or the EU.


Now that "really isn't that difficult"


Wrong. It was up to the UK to decide whether it was best in or out of the EU. It decided out.

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 1.39pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

....and?

Oh ok, I just wanted to ascertain if you thought there was more to it than that. On that basis you could well be right!

 
Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 1.40pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

With the UK leaving I don't think they will have the slightest difficulty in joining, although the situation would have been different as long as the UK was still a member. The EU will be falling over themselves to accommodate the Scots.

The last thing the EU want is:

A) members, or former members, to split into regions
and
B) new members that are going to require money from the EU rather than be able to contribute to it.

They were told this when they assumed their EU membership would carry on had they voted to leave the UK. It wouldn't have.

 

Optimistic as ever
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.41pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Whilst they may want to, it's not that easy, the criteria is quite strict and very time consuming

There are five recognised candidates for future membership of the European Union: Turkey (applied in 1987), Macedonia (applied in 2004), Montenegro (applied in 200, Albania (applied in 2009) and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations.


There wont be the slightest difficulty in Scotland joining.

For some it might be an Up Yours to rUK and secondly you need to remember they are already in the EU and comparisons with Albania and Turkey are just absurd. Serbia had membership withheld because they were harbouring mass murderers. As much as people on this Forum seem to have trouble with strong women I don't think anyone is suggesting Sturgeon is a war criminal

 
Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 1.42pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Exactly. I'm no expert so someone is bound to shoot me down in flames, but the three paths for Nichola Sturgeon are surely:

1) Have a second independence referendum for Scotland and if they vote out then they'll have to find their feet again and I believe re-apply to join the EU.

2) Have a second in independence referendum for Scotland and if they vote in they'll have to play ball with the rest of the EU.

3) Try to do everything they can to block Brexit.

I can see why her preference is for option 3 as I don't see the first two working well for her.

Exactly. The sum amount of what they can do is stamp their feet and say it's not fair.

 

Optimistic as ever
Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 1.44pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Exactly. The sum amount of what they can do is stamp their feet and say it's not fair.

Not exactly, I made a typo. I meant to say "play ball with the rest of the UK". But you probably guessed what I meant!

 
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.45pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Oh ok, I just wanted to ascertain if you thought there was more to it than that. On that basis you could well be right!

For some I think they would love the opportunity to say Up Yours but there is also the rather more important point that they are already members and they want to stay members. Why would the EU stop them?

 
Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 1.47pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Not exactly, I made a typo. I meant to say "play ball with the rest of the UK". But you probably guessed what I meant!

I didn't even guess it, it was one of those ones where the brain read it how I knew you meant it, if you know what I mean.

 

Optimistic as ever
Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 1.49pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

For some I think they would love the opportunity to say Up Yours but there is also the rather more important point that they are already members and they want to stay members. Why would the EU stop them?

As Stuk said, they might want to assess what Scotland can put into the EU in isolation if it was no longer part of the UK. If they derive that Scotland can put in as much (or more) than it takes from the EU, then sure. I have my doubts, but they are based on gut instinct. I'm no economist obviously.

 
Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 1.50pm

Originally posted by Sedlescombe

For some I think they would love the opportunity to say Up Yours but there is also the rather more important point that they are already members and they want to stay members. Why would the EU stop them?

The legislation for joining the EU doesn't have a special clause they can enact, simply to try and piss off former members.

Scotland is not an EU member and the EU told them repeatedly they will not simply have membership transferred.

 

Optimistic as ever
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.51pm

Originally posted by Stuk

The last thing the EU want is:

A) members, or former members, to split into regions
and
B) new members that are going to require money from the EU rather than be able to contribute to it.

They were told this when they assumed their EU membership would carry on had they voted to leave the UK. It wouldn't have.

I think that is a fair point to make and were the UK intending to remain in the EU I could imagine a situation where Spain for example did everything they could to frustrate Scotland in order to send a message to the Catalans.

I think the UK leaving changes that calculation. The EU will take a view that there is a population that wants to be members of the EU and is being forced to leave against its will and Scotland will be quickly waived in. They might even position it such that Scotland takes the place of the UK in the EU.

There are lots of very interesting things to be debated on this subject but Scotland getting very quick access to the EU if they voted for Independence is in my view a nailed on certainty.

 
We are goin up! Flag Coulsdon 11 Nov 16 1.54pm

Imagine Scotland's economy without the Barnett formula and with the Euro. Hilarious.

 

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 1.54pm

Originally posted by Stuk

The legislation for joining the EU doesn't have a special clause they can enact, simply to try and piss off former members.

Scotland is not an EU member and the EU told them repeatedly they will not simply have membership transferred.

They could decide that Scotland takes the UK place.

 
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