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  georgenorman  18 Mar 23 3.43pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The history you perceive is not the history others do. It's not simply a matter of reinterpretation. It's that people experience things differently and pass those experiences on. There are countless examples of this, running since time began. That the books are written by the victors doesn't mean that the losers see things the same way. Just look at Brexit as an example. Our views are very different. "Whoever controls the image and information of the past determines what and how future generations will think; whoever controls the information and images of the present determines how those same people will view the past." [Orwell] "And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed — if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' " [Orwell - 1984] Edited by georgenorman (18 Mar 2023 3.47pm)
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Teddy Eagle  18 Mar 23 3.47pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The history you perceive is not the history others do. It's not simply a matter of reinterpretation. It's that people experience things differently and pass those experiences on. There are countless examples of this, running since time began. That the books are written by the victors doesn't mean that the losers see things the same way. Just look at Brexit as an example. Our views are very different. Of course history isn't set in stone because new evidence is discovered which changes the story but this is more than that - to use a very minor example there was a TV film which cast a black Ann Boleyn. In and of itself that's pretty unimportant but what are the chances of there being a White Mary Seacole?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 4.36pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
For anyone with an ounce of foresight, this stuff would be seen for what it really is. It is an early symptom of the replacement of a culture, genetic heritage and written history of an entire people. We will be out bred, subjugated and ultimately erased from the record. All that will remain is a few random genes and a whole lot of false history and fiction written by our replacements. Opponents of reality and proponents of woke will call this a far right wing conspiracy. Well they would, wouldn't they. This is complete bs. It's nothing of the sort. Your comment is just you repeating your usual theory. That you have a particular view of history doesn't mean that everyone shares it, or that it's true. It's just yours, born from a particular set of experiences and attitudes. You are as entitled to that view as everyone else is to theirs, but you cannot deny them theirs, whether yours is that it is woke, or theirs is that yours is right wing.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 4.42pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Of course history isn't set in stone because new evidence is discovered which changes the story but this is more than that - to use a very minor example there was a TV film which cast a black Ann Boleyn. In and of itself that's pretty unimportant but what are the chances of there being a White Mary Seacole? No idea. It would depend on the Director and the point he was trying to make. Casting actors according to their ability, and without regard to their skin colour, seems an important statement to make in the context of the general debate about the way we regard people. If it causes debate and makes people think that's all fine in my book. That's what drama is supposed to do.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 4.45pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
"Whoever controls the image and information of the past determines what and how future generations will think; whoever controls the information and images of the present determines how those same people will view the past." [Orwell] "And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed — if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' " [Orwell - 1984] Edited by georgenorman (18 Mar 2023 3.47pm) I suggest that you need to consider very carefully the implications of those quotes.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 18 Mar 23 4.49pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No idea. It would depend on the Director and the point he was trying to make. Casting actors according to their ability, and without regard to their skin colour, seems an important statement to make in the context of the general debate about the way we regard people. If it causes debate and makes people think that's all fine in my book. That's what drama is supposed to do. I look forward to seeing Laurence Fox playing Nelson Mandela in some film about what an unmitigated success South Africa has been since 1994.
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| georgenorman 18 Mar 23 4.53pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I suggest that you need to consider very carefully the implications of those quotes. "The most effective way to destroy a people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." [Orwell]
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| Teddy Eagle 18 Mar 23 5.03pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No idea. It would depend on the Director and the point he was trying to make. Casting actors according to their ability, and without regard to their skin colour, seems an important statement to make in the context of the general debate about the way we regard people. If it causes debate and makes people think that's all fine in my book. That's what drama is supposed to do.
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cryrst  The garden of England 18 Mar 23 5.15pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Is that a blind Rudolph ?
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| Teddy Eagle 18 Mar 23 6.33pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Is that a blind Rudolph ? Yep. Popular on Red Nose Day. And stag nights.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Mar 23 7.10pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This is complete bs. It's nothing of the sort. Your comment is just you repeating your usual theory. That you have a particular view of history doesn't mean that everyone shares it, or that it's true. It's just yours, born from a particular set of experiences and attitudes. You are as entitled to that view as everyone else is to theirs, but you cannot deny them theirs, whether yours is that it is woke, or theirs is that yours is right wing. History is written by the victors, and the victors of the current trend will not be Northern Europeans. You either don't care or you are too blind to see what is happening in Western Europe. I'm only concerned with the future for my descendants. They will be unaware of what we have lost, but they will have to live with the consequences.
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| Spiderman Horsham 18 Mar 23 7.33pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No idea. It would depend on the Director and the point he was trying to make. Casting actors according to their ability, and without regard to their skin colour, seems an important statement to make in the context of the general debate about the way we regard people. If it causes debate and makes people think that's all fine in my book. That's what drama is supposed to do. How wrong you are. My son obtained a degree in musical theatre. He auditioned for a role in Miss Saigon, he was told “no way” as they could not make him up to appear to be Asian. But you can have a black Ann Boleyn. Nothing to do with ability, just wokeness
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Mar 23 7.51pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
How wrong you are. My son obtained a degree in musical theatre. He auditioned for a role in Miss Saigon, he was told “no way” as they could not make him up to appear to be Asian. But you can have a black Ann Boleyn. Nothing to do with ability, just wokeness Precisely. All this nonsense only works in one direction. Those who ignore that are complicit in the big lie.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 8.27pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
"The most effective way to destroy a people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." [Orwell] Tell me, do you get your Orwell "quotes" directly from his works, or via other "sources" on the internet? You might be well advised to read this, and check their authenticity, before posting any more:- The internet is full of misinformation. "The most effective way to destroy a people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their literature." [Wisbech Eagle}
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 8.40pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
How wrong you are. My son obtained a degree in musical theatre. He auditioned for a role in Miss Saigon, he was told “no way” as they could not make him up to appear to be Asian. But you can have a black Ann Boleyn. Nothing to do with ability, just wokeness No it isn't. It's only to do with the way that particular Director wanted to work. In truth, he could potentially have been in trouble for breaking anti-discrimination laws, but hopefully common sense prevailed. Another Director may have wanted to set the story in the Middle East and cast the whole production with people from Africa. Stranger things have happened. After all what is West Side Story other than a retelling of Romeo and Juliet? Do you think the casting of that ought to have avoided New Yorkers?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 18 Mar 23 8.43pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
History is written by the victors, and the victors of the current trend will not be Northern Europeans. You either don't care or you are too blind to see what is happening in Western Europe. I'm only concerned with the future for my descendants. They will be unaware of what we have lost, but they will have to live with the consequences. There we go again. The "Great Replacement Theory" rears its ugly head and stated as a fact. I won't bother debunking it again. It's been done too often to be necessary.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 18 Mar 23 9.01pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No it isn't. It's only to do with the way that particular Director wanted to work. In truth, he could potentially have been in trouble for breaking anti-discrimination laws, but hopefully common sense prevailed. Another Director may have wanted to set the story in the Middle East and cast the whole production with people from Africa. Stranger things have happened. After all what is West Side Story other than a retelling of Romeo and Juliet? Do you think the casting of that ought to have avoided New Yorkers? It isn't only to do with the director. There is also funding and convincing a production company.
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| georgenorman 18 Mar 23 9.14pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Tell me, do you get your Orwell "quotes" directly from his works, or via other "sources" on the internet? You might be well advised to read this, and check their authenticity, before posting any more:- The internet is full of misinformation. "The most effective way to destroy a people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their literature." [Wisbech Eagle} It was certainly his take on modern history. In an essay he wrote in 1942 concerning his experiences in the Spanish Civil War, he says: "I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, 'History stopped in 1936', at which he nodded in immediate understanding ... I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various 'party lines'."
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Mar 23 10.08pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
There we go again. The "Great Replacement Theory" rears its ugly head and stated as a fact. I won't bother debunking it again. It's been done too often to be necessary. It's not great and it's not a theory. It only takes a look at trends and an understanding of the effect of birth and mortality rates to see that. I think you actually know this.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 18 Mar 23 10.12pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It was certainly his take on modern history. In an essay he wrote in 1942 concerning his experiences in the Spanish Civil War, he says: "I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, 'History stopped in 1936', at which he nodded in immediate understanding ... I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various 'party lines'." Wisbech knows all this. He deliberately misrepresents everything, either for his own amusement or because he has become so blinkered by his ideals that he can no longer see much of anything. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Mar 2023 10.13pm)
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