The PR debate has been had and it's been rejected.

From what I can see that's like pretty much like anything this guy believes in when the public get to directly vote. It's probably why he wants elites to push through his agenda for him.

He's a contrarian who gets his kicks from arguing with opposing viewpoints. He takes advantage of the right's higher tolerance for free speech to essentially infect its debating spaces with deliberately obtuse points, continually repeating the same points no matter how often they get rinsed.

Bud is right, we should ignore this troll....Well, at least while he behaves like this.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Jan 2020 11.30am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I hope you aren't a football manager. It's never over until it's over and when it is there is always the next game. If you lose them all and get relegated then you rebuild and win promotion back again.

I didn't want the first vote so I definitely don't want a second. I want us to elect a Parliament which will take us back in. There are several steps needed to achieve that so you being bored suits just fine. Take your eyes off the ball and become complacent just because you scored the last goal.

We'll be back. Very few teams actually go out of existence and ones this strong always get there in the end. It just takes time.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

There are several models for PR. I suggest you research them as they answer your question.

The PR debate has moved on and recent events have shown how much we need it. Both major parties fought against last time but I suspect that's about to change.

I don't believe in the public ever getting to directly vote on single issues. We have MPs to do that and they are NOT elites!

Any higher tolerance of free speech is fine, provided it follows the law. It cannot ever be absolute on the public square or the peace could be under threat.

Only private spaces are restricted to those with specific views. The HOL is not one of them. If anyone feels uncomfortable, and wants to restrict MY freedom of speech, then I suggest they find a closed forum exclusively for like minded people. There are hundreds of them available.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Well the vote that took us into the EU was in the early seventies and a procession of politicians after that refused the public a say on EU membership.

Once we got the chance we rejected the overall package more than we accepted it.

So it's only fair that remainers get to wait the same amount of time they made leavers wait for a vote.

I'd be ok with another vote in the 2060s.....it's only fair.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

But I do care about my country its just that soft brained idiots like you do nothing to change anything as you have one agenda and that is it. Have you counted how many people on this website have asked you to give it a break and see we all have our own opinions and ideas. It seems that we are banging our heads against the wall trying to make you see this.
You have some really way out ideas as do the other people on your new love in web site....

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Be careful not to get too deep in that insult mire. You know from past experience it can quickly overwhelm you.

My agenda has many strands to it, as any rational one must have. We face a complicated future with competing and contradictory demands which have to be achieved in a world which works together or disaster could await us all.

The reaction of the majority on this site just speaks volumes about the political views of the majority on this site. It has been described to me as a place full of racist bone heads and knuckle draggers, but I wouldn't dream of being so rude. I think there are people here with intelligence who just come to different conclusions to me, but nonetheless this is as untypical an open forum as I think it's possible to get. If anyone doesn't enjoy reading my alternative viewpoint then no-one compels them to. The answer is in their hands and not mine.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Of course it is. Almost anything is possible but many things are really unlikely.

I might win the lottery this weekend but I am not planning my future on any expectation that I will.

Do you accept that I might be more right than wrong?

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Being called knuckle draggers by degenerates is quite something.

When it comes to insults I'm comfortable with the reality.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Whoever they are they could learn a bit about winning hearts and minds. Insults are probably not going to do the job.

If you recheck my initial comment you will read my own "feelings". My friend is only "invisible" to the others here. He is a fellow Palace fan and uses the HOL from time to time, especially during transfer windows, although he doesn't post and I am not sure is even a member.

The will of the people at the last election was to return a Tory government under a fptp system. Why they did that is a matter of some conjecture. Brexit undoubtedly played a significant part, the primary driving force though being, in my opinion, a weariness with the situation and a belief that any resolution was better than none.

The Tories, as has been clearly shown several times, did NOT win overwhelmingly at all. It was only the fptp system which delivered a large majority.

The 2016 referendum was a single issue vote, which was split almost straight down the middle, with just a 4% difference. All recent polls on the same single issue indicate that if that question was asked today the result would again be split down the middle but with the balance the other way. As we now know much more in 2020 than we did 4 years ago on that subject it follows that our current opinion ought to matter more than the original one.

It also follows that if the 2016 referendum result was measured by counting votes from across the whole country, and not via a fptp system in constituencies, that to make a comparison with the 2019 election we also need to look at the total number of votes cast.

When we do that we can see that more people voted against the Tories than for them, and that was in spite of a disastrous performance by the Labour party.

So the country is NOT being "ripped apart" by people like me at all. When more people are now in favour of remaining in the EU yet our system, together with Cameron's initial mistake, is delivering what they don't want, this is government by a minority.

I recognise realities and that we cannot change the system instantly, so some kind of Brexit is going to happen. No-one though is going to convince me it is either wise or what the people, by a small majority, now actually want.

These divisions have existed, in one form or another, for decades and they aren't going to subside any time soon. In the past it was the Eurosceptics making all the noise and latterly all the running. That has now changed. If Farage had lost he wouldn't have stopped campaigning and nor now will Euro enthusiasts like me. You really cannot expect anything different. The boot is just now on the other foot and is starting to kick.

This situation, where the country is split down the middle, strengthens my belief that these types of decisions must be taken in our Parliament and not thrown to the winds of chance in a referendum. Alongside that I want our Parliament to more accurately represent all shades of opinion and we can only achieve that with PR.

There is lots to do.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.