The will of the people at the last election was to return a Tory government under a fptp system.

The Tories, as has been clearly shown several times, did NOT win overwhelmingly at all. It was only the fptp system which delivered a large majority.

it's time for a change so we can improve things.

If you recheck my initial comment you will read my own "feelings". My friend is only "invisible" to the others here. He is a fellow Palace fan and uses the HOL from time to time, especially during transfer windows, although he doesn't post and I am not sure is even a member.

The will of the people at the last election was to return a Tory government under a fptp system. Why they did that is a matter of some conjecture. Brexit undoubtedly played a significant part, the primary driving force though being, in my opinion, a weariness with the situation and a belief that any resolution was better than none.

The Tories, as has been clearly shown several times, did NOT win overwhelmingly at all. It was only the fptp system which delivered a large majority.

The 2016 referendum was a single issue vote, which was split almost straight down the middle, with just a 4% difference. All recent polls on the same single issue indicate that if that question was asked today the result would again be split down the middle but with the balance the other way. As we now know much more in 2020 than we did 4 years ago on that subject it follows that our current opinion ought to matter more than the original one.

It also follows that if the 2016 referendum result was measured by counting votes from across the whole country, and not via a fptp system in constituencies, that to make a comparison with the 2019 election we also need to look at the total number of votes cast.

When we do that we can see that more people voted against the Tories than for them, and that was in spite of a disastrous performance by the Labour party.

So the country is NOT being "ripped apart" by people like me at all. When more people are now in favour of remaining in the EU yet our system, together with Cameron's initial mistake, is delivering what they don't want, this is government by a minority.

I recognise realities and that we cannot change the system instantly, so some kind of Brexit is going to happen. No-one though is going to convince me it is either wise or what the people, by a small majority, now actually want.

These divisions have existed, in one form or another, for decades and they aren't going to subside any time soon. In the past it was the Eurosceptics making all the noise and latterly all the running. That has now changed. If Farage had lost he wouldn't have stopped campaigning and nor now will Euro enthusiasts like me. You really cannot expect anything different. The boot is just now on the other foot and is starting to kick.

This situation, where the country is split down the middle, strengthens my belief that these types of decisions must be taken in our Parliament and not thrown to the winds of chance in a referendum. Alongside that I want our Parliament to more accurately represent all shades of opinion and we can only achieve that with PR.

There is lots to do.

How exactly do you KNOW that more people want to remain in the EU than want to leave....surely if that was the case, MORE people would have voted for anyone other than the Tories? LibDems wanted to remain so why didnt everyone who wanted to remain vote for them?? A majority voted to leave and a majority voted for Tories, whats so difficult for you to understand?? If you are using 'the polls suggest' arguement, the polls have been wrong plenty of times, why not now?? YOU LOST< GET OVER IT!!

Edited by the silurian (16 Jan 2020 2.56pm)

I don't "know" anymore than you don't. However, all the polls suggest that is the case and although they can, of course, be wrong they are the best guide we have right now. It's just applying basic logic.

The LibDems would have fared much better if Farage had not pulled his stunt or under a PR system.

The election result is not any kind of reliable guide to the people's current attitude to leaving the EU, despite all the bs to the contrary. We voted in a Tory government with a huge majority but by a minority of the votes cast. How we would respond to an "in or out" question, or even a "which type" question remains unknown.

This "you lost" argument is the most nonsensical and silly response I can imagine. It's resonant of the playground. I can only imagine how Farage might respond to such claims if the 2016 referendum had split the other way by the same margin.

so just your opinion then??? Polls can and often are wrong!

As I said. On this scale though it is pretty unlikely.

OK we getit you want PR, however this isnt the place to fight for that, find somewhere where you are amongst like minded fools..

I will decide whether and where I will fight, unless and until I am chucked off the site. As this is not just a place for any particular world view I feel that right now a few of you need to hear alternatives. My feeling. My decision.

If there is a vote, the side with themost votes WINS....so the other LOSES...why dont you understand simple maths...52% beats 48% every day!! and you still have to get an insult or two in, dont you??

No-one wins when the decision is taken this way and the result is so close. Everyone stays dissatisfied, even those who were on the side that gained a tiny majority on one particular day 4 years ago. "Like minded fools is not an insult I suppose?"

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Jan 2020 8.13pm)

yeah whatever, you dont like the result you bitch about it ad infinitum (look it up) You are so boring I think Ill just ignore your inane ramblings until you get as bored as the rest of us and just fade away... Fed up with your continuos belittling of anyone who do9esnt agree with your warped views....goodbye old man, enough is enough!!

as for 'like minded fools' I see you dont like it when someone does it to you.......tough!!!

Edited by the silurian (16 Jan 2020 9.38pm)