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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jan 20 11.17pm
Originally posted by Matov I want them to be as free as we will be and the day the EU Parliaments in Brussels and Strasbourg are razed to the ground. You know as well as I do that I was talking about the EU and not simply about European culture. This idea that we will be "free" is a total myth. We don't exist in isolation and every relationship demands compromises to work. Unless, of course, you are all powerful and just bully people into submission as Trump believes he can. The problem with that is that it stokes resentment and ultimately always ends in failure because events change things. Just look at the current evidence. We want to tax the US tech giants, as we should. We want to use Huawei, as we shouldn't, and the US wants the opposite of both. We want a trade deal but they hold the whip hand. Are we "free" to take our own decisions? Are we hell! We need to choose our friends very carefully. Not just for economic, let alone emotional reasons, but for strategic and security reasons. No-one argues that the EU is perfect, or that the Euro has yet delivered. We are not though using the Euro and have no obligation to accept any EU development we disagree with. Subsidiarity is a principal which isn't much discussed these days but it ought to be the guiding principal behind every EU decision, as was intended by Maastricht. EU reform is necessary in some areas but the over arching proposition remains very sound. We are a safer, stronger, more secure country inside than out. Of that I am 100% certain. Giving up something to gain more is always wise. Only the blindly optimistic, or the willfully selfish, expect to get everything their own way. I fear there are going to have to be some very hard lessons learned in the next few years. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jan 20 11.17pm

Originally posted by Matov

I want them to be as free as we will be and the day the EU Parliaments in Brussels and Strasbourg are razed to the ground.

You know as well as I do that I was talking about the EU and not simply about European culture.

This idea that we will be "free" is a total myth. We don't exist in isolation and every relationship demands compromises to work. Unless, of course, you are all powerful and just bully people into submission as Trump believes he can. The problem with that is that it stokes resentment and ultimately always ends in failure because events change things.

Just look at the current evidence. We want to tax the US tech giants, as we should. We want to use Huawei, as we shouldn't, and the US wants the opposite of both. We want a trade deal but they hold the whip hand. Are we "free" to take our own decisions? Are we hell!

We need to choose our friends very carefully. Not just for economic, let alone emotional reasons, but for strategic and security reasons. No-one argues that the EU is perfect, or that the Euro has yet delivered.

We are not though using the Euro and have no obligation to accept any EU development we disagree with. Subsidiarity is a principal which isn't much discussed these days but it ought to be the guiding principal behind every EU decision, as was intended by Maastricht. EU reform is necessary in some areas but the over arching proposition remains very sound. We are a safer, stronger, more secure country inside than out. Of that I am 100% certain.

Giving up something to gain more is always wise. Only the blindly optimistic, or the willfully selfish, expect to get everything their own way.

I fear there are going to have to be some very hard lessons learned in the next few years.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Stirlingsays 22 Jan 20 11.25pm
Originally posted by cpfc_chap They'll be no EU to return to! EU is done long live europe!! Ditto, and kudos. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Jan 20 11.25pm

Originally posted by cpfc_chap

They'll be no EU to return to! EU is done long live europe!!

Ditto, and kudos.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 22 Jan 20 11.27pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You can wait elsewhere Pussay. Was that PP? Well I never. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Jan 20 11.27pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You can wait elsewhere Pussay.

Was that PP? Well I never.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 22 Jan 20 11.32pm
Originally posted by Matov By my reckoning, today is the day when our departure on January 31st is now merely a matter of course. Phew. Been a long old journey and by my reckoning not truly done and dusted until this transition period is over but as of 11pm, on the 31st, one less star on that s*ty flag. Feels like an age since I started a thread on the BBS about the referendum that had to follow Cameron's election in 2015 and I end it all on here. LOL. Cowardly b****s never had the guts to inform I was banned and I even considered a couple of them as good friends. Oh well, you live and learn. The first and last time I will ever mention that place on here but it felt right to do so today. Because this is it. Perhaps I am wrong and baring some Black Swan type event between now and Friday week I cannot see any more twists and turns but we are finally becoming free of decades of seeing our sovereignty eroded. How it all pans out I genuinely do not know. But it has happened and democracy has (barely) made it through. No faith in Johnson but there is a certain amount of schadenfreude to be relished in knowing that those who most vocally opposed our not only leaving but then sort to trample all over the vote on June 23rd will have been distraught to see the process end up with him enjoying a huge majority along with them being shown up for the morons they truly are. Because anybody who thought a second referendum would go down well with the British public despite the constituency break down of both the Brexit vote and then the last ever EU elections held in 2019 deserve nothing other than our contempt for their lack of basic understanding of how our electoral system works. An end of an era and the dawning of a new. The relics will still be around of course, dribbling on like political zombies who can't move on. Counting the days lads. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

22 Jan 20 11.32pm

Originally posted by Matov

By my reckoning, today is the day when our departure on January 31st is now merely a matter of course. Phew. Been a long old journey and by my reckoning not truly done and dusted until this transition period is over but as of 11pm, on the 31st, one less star on that s***ty flag.

Feels like an age since I started a thread on the BBS about the referendum that had to follow Cameron's election in 2015 and I end it all on here. LOL. Cowardly b******s never had the guts to inform I was banned and I even considered a couple of them as good friends. Oh well, you live and learn. The first and last time I will ever mention that place on here but it felt right to do so today.

Because this is it. Perhaps I am wrong and baring some Black Swan type event between now and Friday week I cannot see any more twists and turns but we are finally becoming free of decades of seeing our sovereignty eroded.

How it all pans out I genuinely do not know. But it has happened and democracy has (barely) made it through. No faith in Johnson but there is a certain amount of schadenfreude to be relished in knowing that those who most vocally opposed our not only leaving but then sort to trample all over the vote on June 23rd will have been distraught to see the process end up with him enjoying a huge majority along with them being shown up for the morons they truly are. Because anybody who thought a second referendum would go down well with the British public despite the constituency break down of both the Brexit vote and then the last ever EU elections held in 2019 deserve nothing other than our contempt for their lack of basic understanding of how our electoral system works.

An end of an era and the dawning of a new.

The relics will still be around of course, dribbling on like political zombies who can't move on.

Counting the days lads.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

DANGERCLOSE London 22 Jan 20 11.32pm
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 22 Jan 20 11.32pm

[Tweet Link]

dannyboy1978 23 Jan 20 7.08am
Message to remoaners. We can protect employment rights contrary to what you lot said. BBC News - Two weeks of leave for UK parents who lose a child [Link]

dannyboy1978

23 Jan 20 7.08am

Message to remoaners.
We can protect employment rights contrary to what you lot said.
BBC News - Two weeks of leave for UK parents who lose a child
[Link]

DANGERCLOSE London 23 Jan 20 5.13pm
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 23 Jan 20 5.13pm

[Tweet Link]

Badger11 Beckenham 23 Jan 20 5.16pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link] One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 23 Jan 20 5.16pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

One more point

W12 23 Jan 20 5.24pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You know as well as I do that I was talking about the EU and not simply about European culture. This idea that we will be "free" is a total myth. We don't exist in isolation and every relationship demands compromises to work. Unless, of course, you are all powerful and just bully people into submission as Trump believes he can. The problem with that is that it stokes resentment and ultimately always ends in failure because events change things. Just look at the current evidence. We want to tax the US tech giants, as we should. We want to use Huawei, as we shouldn't, and the US wants the opposite of both. We want a trade deal but they hold the whip hand. Are we "free" to take our own decisions? Are we hell! We need to choose our friends very carefully. Not just for economic, let alone emotional reasons, but for strategic and security reasons. No-one argues that the EU is perfect, or that the Euro has yet delivered. We are not though using the Euro and have no obligation to accept any EU development we disagree with. Subsidiarity is a principal which isn't much discussed these days but it ought to be the guiding principal behind every EU decision, as was intended by Maastricht. EU reform is necessary in some areas but the over arching proposition remains very sound. We are a safer, stronger, more secure country inside than out. Of that I am 100% certain. Giving up something to gain more is always wise. Only the blindly optimistic, or the willfully selfish, expect to get everything their own way. I fear there are going to have to be some very hard lessons learned in the next few years. "We want to tax the US tech giants" - no, most of all we need to severly curtail their power and monopoly and stop them interferring in politics, censorship, deplatforming and overt social engineering (e.g. deliberately addictive technology, controlling behavoiur) "We want to use Huawei" - no we don't, f*** everything about China "The US wants the opposite of both" - Trump would like both of the above "they hold the whip hand" - that's just bollox and Trump would give us a decent deal just because he hates the EU (and the UN) like most of us. You are so far off the mark it's untrue. Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.25pm) Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.26pm)

W12 23 Jan 20 5.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You know as well as I do that I was talking about the EU and not simply about European culture.

Giving up something to gain more is always wise. Only the blindly optimistic, or the willfully selfish, expect to get everything their own way.

I fear there are going to have to be some very hard lessons learned in the next few years.

"We want to tax the US tech giants" - no, most of all we need to severly curtail their power and monopoly and stop them interferring in politics, censorship, deplatforming and overt social engineering (e.g. deliberately addictive technology, controlling behavoiur)

"We want to use Huawei" - no we don't, f*** everything about China

"The US wants the opposite of both" - Trump would like both of the above

"they hold the whip hand" - that's just bollox and Trump would give us a decent deal just because he hates the EU (and the UN) like most of us.

You are so far off the mark it's untrue.

Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.25pm)

Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.26pm)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 20 10.11pm
Originally posted by W12 "We want to tax the US tech giants" - no, most of all we need to severly curtail their power and monopoly and stop them interferring in politics, censorship, deplatforming and overt social engineering (e.g. deliberately addictive technology, controlling behavoiur) We certainly need to ensure that we, and not they, set and maintain the standards that the tech companies observe in our jurisdiction. They don't though "interfere in politics". Indeed others use them to interfere in politics and all they do is monitor and apply our rules to stop them. That we need to ourselves regulate any kind of addictive intent applies to every kind of commercial activity. "We want to use Huawei" - no we don't, f* everything about China If you re-read what I wrote I too don't think we should use Huawei. However we simply cannot just ignore China. That would be a massive folly. "The US wants the opposite of both" - Trump would like both of the above Trump regards anyone, or anything, that disagrees or challenges him as a personal threat. He is at heart a coward. "they hold the whip hand" - that's just bollox and Trump would give us a decent deal just because he hates the EU (and the UN) like most of us. Trump only loves Trump and anyone or anything that might help him get re-elected. Of course they hold the whip hand. Their economy is much bigger than ours and Trump uses the threat of tariffs like you use toilet paper. A deal will be easy, just so long as we end up paying much higher duties on their exports to us. Especially on drugs for the NHS. Most of "us" don't hate either the EU or the UN. Just those on here. I am so far off the mark it's untrue. EFA** Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.25pm) Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.26pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Jan 20 10.11pm

Originally posted by W12

We certainly need to ensure that we, and not they, set and maintain the standards that the tech companies observe in our jurisdiction. They don't though "interfere in politics". Indeed others use them to interfere in politics and all they do is monitor and apply our rules to stop them. That we need to ourselves regulate any kind of addictive intent applies to every kind of commercial activity.

"We want to use Huawei" - no we don't, f*** everything about China

If you re-read what I wrote I too don't think we should use Huawei. However we simply cannot just ignore China. That would be a massive folly.

"The US wants the opposite of both" - Trump would like both of the above

Trump regards anyone, or anything, that disagrees or challenges him as a personal threat. He is at heart a coward.

"they hold the whip hand" - that's just bollox and Trump would give us a decent deal just because he hates the EU (and the UN) like most of us.

Trump only loves Trump and anyone or anything that might help him get re-elected. Of course they hold the whip hand. Their economy is much bigger than ours and Trump uses the threat of tariffs like you use toilet paper. A deal will be easy, just so long as we end up paying much higher duties on their exports to us. Especially on drugs for the NHS. Most of "us" don't hate either the EU or the UN. Just those on here.

I am so far off the mark it's untrue.

EFA

Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.25pm)

Edited by W12 (23 Jan 2020 5.26pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst The garden of England 24 Jan 20 5.56am
Some people are just like trump though! Regard people who challenge them or disagree with them as a personal threat. It's just the way some are!

cryrst

The garden of England 24 Jan 20 5.56am

Some people are just like trump though!
Regard people who challenge them or disagree with them as a personal threat.
It's just the way some are!

Badger11 Beckenham 24 Jan 20 8.33am
John Bercow is whining that the government is not respecting the convention of making the retired speaker a lord. Well that is rich coming from a man who prided himself in breaking conventions when it suited him. [Link] Now of course the Tories are out to get him however serious allegations are being made about his personal conduct and not for the first time. Labour seem to have lost their head over this and have recommended him for a peerage, this could blow up in their face if these allegations of bullying and sexual harassment are true. Until he is cleared of misconduct they should have left well alone. In the meantime coming to you soon in the bargain bucket at all good book stores Bercow has his autobiography out I recommended it if you suffer from insomnia. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 24 Jan 20 8.33am

John Bercow is whining that the government is not respecting the convention of making the retired speaker a lord. Well that is rich coming from a man who prided himself in breaking conventions when it suited him.

[Link]

Now of course the Tories are out to get him however serious allegations are being made about his personal conduct and not for the first time.

Labour seem to have lost their head over this and have recommended him for a peerage, this could blow up in their face if these allegations of bullying and sexual harassment are true. Until he is cleared of misconduct they should have left well alone.

In the meantime coming to you soon in the bargain bucket at all good book stores Bercow has his autobiography out I recommended it if you suffer from insomnia.

One more point

cryrst The garden of England 24 Jan 20 8.46am
Karma. Natures way

cryrst

The garden of England 24 Jan 20 8.46am

Karma.
Natures way

Matov 24 Jan 20 1.08pm
Originally posted by cryrst Karma. Natures way For my money now that Brexit is actually going to happen, we need to start trying to let this all fade away now. Reach out and trying and build bridges. We won or at least we will do next Friday. Still not got much faith in what follows with Johnson at the helm but next Friday is what we voted for on June 23rd and finally it is being honoured. But Bercow is beyond the pale. Of all the players in the farce that has been the last few years, he is the one who abused his position the most. An utterly foul and despicable man and see his chief clerks turning on him now says it all. This was the main player in trying to scupper Brexit and for what? His own personal elevation (no pun intended given his status as a short arse) and seeking to make himself the centre of attraction. Willing to forgive and try to move on with almost anybody else who set their bitter little hearts on having my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void but Bercow is the last on the list. A loathsome little toad even in the reptile house that is our Parliament. Edited by Matov (24 Jan 2020 1.09pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

24 Jan 20 1.08pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Karma.
Natures way

For my money now that Brexit is actually going to happen, we need to start trying to let this all fade away now. Reach out and trying and build bridges. We won or at least we will do next Friday. Still not got much faith in what follows with Johnson at the helm but next Friday is what we voted for on June 23rd and finally it is being honoured.

But Bercow is beyond the pale. Of all the players in the farce that has been the last few years, he is the one who abused his position the most. An utterly foul and despicable man and see his chief clerks turning on him now says it all.

This was the main player in trying to scupper Brexit and for what? His own personal elevation (no pun intended given his status as a short arse) and seeking to make himself the centre of attraction.

Willing to forgive and try to move on with almost anybody else who set their bitter little hearts on having my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void but Bercow is the last on the list.

A loathsome little toad even in the reptile house that is our Parliament.

Edited by Matov (24 Jan 2020 1.09pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Beckenham 24 Jan 20 1.28pm
Originally posted by Matov For my money now that Brexit is actually going to happen, we need to start trying to let this all fade away now. Reach out and trying and build bridges. We won or at least we will do next Friday. Still not got much faith in what follows with Johnson at the helm but next Friday is what we voted for on June 23rd and finally it is being honoured. But Bercow is beyond the pale. Of all the players in the farce that has been the last few years, he is the one who abused his position the most. An utterly foul and despicable man and see his chief clerks turning on him now says it all. This was the main player in trying to scupper Brexit and for what? His own personal elevation (no pun intended given his status as a short arse) and seeking to make himself the centre of attraction. Willing to forgive and try to move on with almost anybody else who set their bitter little hearts on having my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void but Bercow is the last on the list. A loathsome little toad even in the reptile house that is our Parliament. Edited by Matov (24 Jan 2020 1.09pm) Agreed there are plenty of politicians on the Remain side who could be honoured Ken Clarke for one but the ones that lied to their voters can forget it. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 24 Jan 20 1.28pm

Originally posted by Matov

This was the main player in trying to scupper Brexit and for what? His own personal elevation (no pun intended given his status as a short arse) and seeking to make himself the centre of attraction.

Willing to forgive and try to move on with almost anybody else who set their bitter little hearts on having my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void but Bercow is the last on the list.

A loathsome little toad even in the reptile house that is our Parliament.

Edited by Matov (24 Jan 2020 1.09pm)

Agreed there are plenty of politicians on the Remain side who could be honoured Ken Clarke for one but the ones that lied to their voters can forget it.

One more point

Maine Eagle USA 24 Jan 20 2.55pm
Well its coming, its been a long time coming, but its gonna happen soon now! For my money the UK economy will be worse off, but time will tell. Time to get on with it now and go back to debating that f*ing t* Trump. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 24 Jan 20 2.55pm

Well its coming, its been a long time coming, but its gonna happen soon now!

For my money the UK economy will be worse off, but time will tell.

Time to get on with it now and go back to debating that f***ing t*** Trump.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Hrolf The Ganger 24 Jan 20 4.14pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Well its coming, its been a long time coming, but its gonna happen soon now! For my money the UK economy will be worse off, but time will tell. Time to get on with it now and go back to debating that fing t Trump. Oh yes, that other Lefty attempt to get their own way outside of the ballot box. The impeachment is a joke.

Hrolf The Ganger

24 Jan 20 4.14pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Well its coming, its been a long time coming, but its gonna happen soon now!

For my money the UK economy will be worse off, but time will tell.

Time to get on with it now and go back to debating that f***ing t*** Trump.

Oh yes, that other Lefty attempt to get their own way outside of the ballot box.

The impeachment is a joke.

Stirlingsays 24 Jan 20 6.46pm
Hooray, the UK won't be implementing the EU's Internet attack called the 'EU Copyright Directive' also known as Article 13....which would kill memes and parodies. May's lackeys' signed saying they would implement but Johnson isn't going to. Feck them and a tentative hooray for a freer Internet for our content creators......Hopefully this means that their laws won't touch them. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jan 2020 6.48pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

24 Jan 20 6.46pm

Hooray, the UK won't be implementing the EU's Internet attack called the 'EU Copyright Directive' also known as Article 13....which would kill memes and parodies.

May's lackeys' signed saying they would implement but Johnson isn't going to.

Feck them and a tentative hooray for a freer Internet for our content creators......Hopefully this means that their laws won't touch them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jan 2020 6.48pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

TomThePalaceFanatic 24 Jan 20 7.05pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Oh yes, that other Lefty attempt to get their own way outside of the ballot box. The impeachment is a joke. Absolutely not true. Not everything has to be right vs left, it’s too black and white. I supported and continue to support Brexit but don’t support Trump’s administration. Why do people have to pick a viewpoint and have no flexibility behind it?

TomThePalaceFanatic

24 Jan 20 7.05pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Oh yes, that other Lefty attempt to get their own way outside of the ballot box.

The impeachment is a joke.

Absolutely not true. Not everything has to be right vs left, it’s too black and white.

I supported and continue to support Brexit but don’t support Trump’s administration.

Why do people have to pick a viewpoint and have no flexibility behind it?

Stirlingsays 24 Jan 20 7.15pm
Originally posted by TomThePalaceFanatic Absolutely not true. Not everything has to be right vs left, it’s too black and white. I supported and continue to support Brexit but don’t support Trump’s administration. Why do people have to pick a viewpoint and have no flexibility behind it? But you have taken a viewpoint yourself. You might not like it but there is no centralist position here....that's gone. The gulf between right and left is so large that it's like another language. Besides I don't really understand the point of not supporting the Trump administration when the alternative is literally more left wing than Corbyn. I can understand not liking Trump and having criticism but he is also the only thing keeping the Democrats out. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jan 2020 7.18pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

24 Jan 20 7.15pm

Originally posted by TomThePalaceFanatic

Absolutely not true. Not everything has to be right vs left, it’s too black and white.

I supported and continue to support Brexit but don’t support Trump’s administration.

Why do people have to pick a viewpoint and have no flexibility behind it?

But you have taken a viewpoint yourself. You might not like it but there is no centralist position here....that's gone. The gulf between right and left is so large that it's like another language.

Besides I don't really understand the point of not supporting the Trump administration when the alternative is literally more left wing than Corbyn.

I can understand not liking Trump and having criticism but he is also the only thing keeping the Democrats out.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jan 2020 7.18pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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