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 PalazioVecchio  south pole 20 Apr 23 2.44pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Cleopatra was Greek. No one should be surprised at the dim witted film companies allowing Smith to abuse history, It's the norm and has been for a while. More and more 'blackwashed' history will become the history people are taught in school as White people become a smaller and smaller minority on Planet Earth. The vikings trafficked huge number of British & irish kids. Kids off to the slave markets of Byzantium & Spain. Funny enough, I have not heard the BBC give the story much airtime.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Apr 23 2.48pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The Ptolemy's all intermarried within their own Macedonian tribe annoyingly we know who Cleopatra's family and grandparents all except her mother, all Macedonian. It is highly unlikely her mother was black or even Egyptian but it cannot be proved either way. The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have. In Roman society people who had dark skin were slaves and the lower classes because of course they worked outside. pink and white skin was the ultimate prize because it meant you had some poor sod do all the work for you. If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes. So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage. It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement. If you think about her bathing in milk, then presumably that was to do with being as white as possible. I'm presuming it was relatively fashionable and a sign of wealth and power, to be as white as possible in Egypt. Good luck finding the real research these days however. It's just common sense but no doubt no one's noticed.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Badger11  Beckenham 20 Apr 23 10.07pm |
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Why am I not surprised
One more point |
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| footythoughts Beckenham 21 Apr 23 4.47am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The Ptolemy's all intermarried within their own Macedonian tribe annoyingly we know who Cleopatra's family and grandparents all except her mother, all Macedonian. It is highly unlikely her mother was black or even Egyptian but it cannot be proved either way. The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have. In Roman society people who had dark skin were slaves and the lower classes because of course they worked outside. pink and white skin was the ultimate prize because it meant you had some poor sod do all the work for you. If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes. So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage. It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement. This fits with my understanding too. All I'd add is that there have up until recent past (less so present of course) been countless examples of white actors playing non white historical figures. Most drifted by without notice, largely on account that it meant so little to us or was deemed fine because we could relate to it. I wonder how many people angered by Cleopatra, were angry then.. I would argue that we should keep these realities in mind, but also try to stay true to what we know about historical figures rather than reboot or reframe, as publicity aside it's understandably often not well received.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 21 Apr 23 8.07am |
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Originally posted by footythoughts
This fits with my understanding too. All I'd add is that there have up until recent past (less so present of course) been countless examples of white actors playing non white historical figures. Most drifted by without notice, largely on account that it meant so little to us or was deemed fine because we could relate to it. I wonder how many people angered by Cleopatra, were angry then.. I would argue that we should keep these realities in mind, but also try to stay true to what we know about historical figures rather than reboot or reframe, as publicity aside it's understandably often not well received. The anger this time comes from the Egyptians who see their own culture being blackwashed. I think we will see more of this in the future. It is all very well having a black woman play Ann Boleyn most of us shrug our shoulders and say what a load of rubbish. However other cultures still care about their icons and will not be happy with some reinterpretation of their history. The Egyptians are taking legal action.
One more point |
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| YT Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.12am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
As did we. And Micheal Jackson.
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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| YT Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.18am |
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Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching!
Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes) |
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Apr 23 8.28am |
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Originally posted by YT
Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching! Is it just me or is it predominantly men who have failed in their lives to attribute anything typically, if not correctly, identifiable as 'masculine' to themselves who are often the poster boys here? "Booo, get a haricut!" - Homer J Simpson.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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| PalazioVecchio south pole 21 Apr 23 11.28pm |
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Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Teddy Eagle  21 Apr 23 11.36pm |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her.
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 georgenorman 22 Apr 23 7.28am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her. There was always a welcome in her valleys.
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 becky over the moon 22 Apr 23 8.57am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her. Richard Burton?
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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| Teddy Eagle 22 Apr 23 9.02am |
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Indeed. She went for a Burton after being on her Todd.
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| becky over the moon 24 Apr 23 8.30am |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Watching BBC news from early this morning to see their take on Diane Abbot. Well, their take was not to mention it at all! Main headlines were Brits in Sudan (fair enough) and more tickets on sale for Eurovision! They did cover it on the late news last night, where they stated the bald facts of what had been said & done, but the emphasis was on the fact that she had withdrawn her comments wholeheartedly and apologised to any group she may have offended - so that's all right then, nothing to see here, move along to the next item.
A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers |
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| Spiderman Horsham 24 Apr 23 8.35am |
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Originally posted by becky
They did cover it on the late news last night, where they stated the bald facts of what had been said & done, but the emphasis was on the fact that she had withdrawn her comments wholeheartedly and apologised to any group she may have offended - so that's all right then, nothing to see here, move along to the next item. Never watch the news in the evenings. So can I assume this morning it is a non-story?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 24 Apr 23 9.24am |
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Diane has learned a lesson. Some groups have greater victim status than others. Personally, I hope the race baiting cow is chucked out of The House for good.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 25 Apr 23 9.38am |
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Hmmmm [Tweet Link]
One more point |
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 25 Apr 23 9.46am |
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It's one of those situations with the BBC that by trying to represent everyone, they're actually representing no one.
Red and Blue Army! |
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