This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

Portugal is our oldest ally and appears to be taking a sensible and pragmatic approach to Brexit.

Going through passport control is one of the few areas that really impacts the average UK citizen. If we are made to feel like second class citizens that is not going to help the Remainers and may convince the undecided that Brexit was the right decision.

I sometimes get the feeling in Spain that they want our money they just don't want us.

Anyway if you have never been to Portugal you should consider it a beautiful country and friendly people it's like an upmarket Spain. The Algarve is a great place for a beach holiday if you have a young family.

Hopefully other EU countries will show the same common sense we can still be friends

Whilst I roll my eyes at the sight of drunken British tourists and their antics we are not all like that and tourism for some EU countries is their major sector.

Out of date figures but you get the idea 13mm trips to Spain alone they might want to think about that before pushing the Gibraltar agenda.

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Edited by Badger11 (25 Feb 2020 7.47am)

One more point

This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

Just got back from a week in Marbella yesterday and I must say that I have never had the feeling that the Spanish don't want us there.

I'm sure that the Spanish will do their best to ensure the satisfaction of the millions of tourists that spend their money there each year and if last week was anything to go by the queuing at Birmingham Airport to firstly board the plane last week and secondly standing out in the cold waiting to enter the airport for passport control was far worse than anything the Spanish are likely to throw at us.

I must admit that the queue for security at Malaga Airport was dreadful but that applied to everyone and not just the Brits.

On a side note you mentioned The Algarve as an alternative. We've been there several times but what put us off is the fact that they have such wonderful fresh fish there but the restaurants seem to have the worst cooks with no idea how to cook fish properly.

For any fish lovers the beachside restaurants at Marbella where they cook the fish on wood fired barbecues are superb as are the fish restaurants in El Golfo in Lanzarote where you watch the fisherman clean and gut the fish on the rocks before eating them shortly afterwards

I would 100% rather watch the economy tank and have a country left to live in. You just have no idea yet where this is all leading.

I would rather do what the government is trying to do, restrict unskilled migration and push employers into recruiting local people off the dole. Now if all that fails then yes I would consider allowing a limited number of unskilled folk into the the UK.

This is not a binary question it's about an immigration policy that puts UK folk first but is flexible enough to change when circumstances dictate.

Investment in training and productivity is woeful in this country as employers are happy to use cheap labour. Employers will do nothing about this unless they are forced to by the government.

So yes British jobs for British people as Gordon Brown said and didn't mean.

One more point

This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

My neighbours flew out to Lanzarote on Sunday. Whilst their flights weren't disrupted the air was orange so they felt obliged to spend the best part of the day inside in the bar. The hardships that some people have to put up with

It's already been tanking for a decade, just not as quickly as the EU economy.

Buy Litecoin.

This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

Agreed same with Greece they have lost their marbles literally and figuratively pretty much their only export is tourism and shipping not a good hand to play with us.

One more point

This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

I suspect that both Gib and these Marbles are nothing to do with the UK but primarily to do with stoking up support within the EU.

Brussels knows that its biggest weakness is a collapse from within. Its only strength, and let us not underestimate it, is that if it can speak as one for the rest of the EU then it does wield a big stick but that is also its inherent structural problem. It will not take much for it all to fall apart and where I suspect HMG can play it well.

A WTO exit hurts both sides. But Brussels has to be seen as a separate entity. It is not acting in the interests of the EU member states but protecting its very existence. That is what makes the talks so difficult/interesting.

Hence why I suspect that talks will break down quickly. I suspect Brussels still has not quite grasped the reality of what happened in December. What that majority means for Johnson and what it was built upon.

There is simply no electoral downside for Johnson in playing the hardest of balls with Brussels. And for Johnson this is now all about him winning again in 2024. That is what cements politicians legacies. Repeated electoral success.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

This post has been merged from a topic called 'The Post Brexit Thread' by Midlands Eagle

Issue for me is that I am convinced they are simply unable to comprehend it. That Brexit came as such a huge blow to them, primarily because of the role the UK played in terms of being not only a net contributor but its markets as essentially prime outlets for European goods along with absorbing a % of the EU's wider unemployment problem that they cannot got their heads around it.

Now in terms of having our 'star' on their flag then I suspect they do not care. We were always a drag in terms of our refusal to play along with the wider project goals so no great loss. And just losing the likes of Farage from their Parliament is probably a win enough. His was the most charismatic voice of dissent with videos of his speeches attracting huge numbers of non-UK views.

But losing our contributions and our markets? Or having to complete in them on an equal footing with other nations? That fills them with real dread.

The problem was that May's government was so rubbish allied with a Parliament willing to go to any lengths to scupper Brexit that they were perfectly logical to assume their will would triumph.

Now though...I would love to write that wiser heads will prevail but I suspect they lack the cerebral capacity at the highest levels.

Trapped by their federalist dogma.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Well thought posts by Mat and Stirling. I tend to agree with the analysis, but the EU also has to take into account that the UK should not be seen leaving the EU as beneficial.
That has the potential to push other members into Referendums on whether to leave. Then the house of cards is on very shaky ground.
At the moment BJ is on the front foot, and rightly so. A No-Deal will bvgger a lot of British firms, but equally BJ is in a position of negotiating strength.
The EU has a weak hand , so its only real powers are to make the negotiations as protracted and painful as possible.
I suppose what it will come down to is who has the most to lose.

I disengage, I turn the page.