Who is English?

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Who is English?

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PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Jun 24 6.25pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The English are an officially recognised ethnic group native to these isles. No one is claiming that they have 100 percent linage to be considered English. However, to have none at all makes it a bit risible to claim that ethnicity. Genes can't be subjective as they are physical. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2024 7.50pm) if i recall correctly, Anthony Gordon has an irish parent and a scottish parent. So his genes are to the West & North of England. If he found a Dutch Greatgrandparent he would have the full hat-trick. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Jun 24 6.25pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The English are an officially recognised ethnic group native to these isles. No one is claiming that they have 100 percent linage to be considered English. However, to have none at all makes it a bit risible to claim that ethnicity.

Genes can't be subjective as they are physical.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2024 7.50pm)

if i recall correctly, Anthony Gordon has an irish parent and a scottish parent. So his genes are to the West & North of England. If he found a Dutch Greatgrandparent he would have the full hat-trick.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Jun 24 6.41pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Is somebody trying to say some guy who arrives on a small boat, waves a Labour Advisory leaflet and converts to C of E isn't actually English? Shame on you. They covet the welfare state and the NHS as much as the next man/ person. those boat fellas are fully English until they subsequently land at Wexford and they then become more irish than the irish. With at least as much voting & financial rights as natives. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Jun 24 6.41pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Is somebody trying to say some guy who arrives on a small boat, waves a Labour Advisory leaflet and converts to C of E isn't actually English? Shame on you. They covet the welfare state and the NHS as much as the next man/ person.

those boat fellas are fully English until they subsequently land at Wexford and they then become more irish than the irish. With at least as much voting & financial rights as natives.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.55pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Is somebody trying to say some guy who arrives on a small boat, waves a Labour Advisory leaflet and converts to C of E isn't actually English? Shame on you. They covet the welfare state and the NHS as much as the next man/ person. Of course he isn’t and he would look extremely foolish to pretend too if he showed no understanding of our culture and language, let alone a British passport. Stating you are English doesn’t entitle you to anything. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 6.55pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Of course he isn’t and he would look extremely foolish to pretend too if he showed no understanding of our culture and language, let alone a British passport. Stating you are English doesn’t entitle you to anything.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 7.05pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The connection is you. You promote one idea to support the other. I am only talking about the issue of who is English. I am not doing so to promote anything else. That idea resides only in your fevered imagination. I am doing so to highlight the fact that it is determined by a belief in, and acceptance of, our culture and traditions and not by trying to identify genes. Which is both wholly impractical and completely inaccurate. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 7.05pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The connection is you.

You promote one idea to support the other.

I am only talking about the issue of who is English.

I am not doing so to promote anything else. That idea resides only in your fevered imagination.

I am doing so to highlight the fact that it is determined by a belief in, and acceptance of, our culture and traditions and not by trying to identify genes. Which is both wholly impractical and completely inaccurate.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 24 8.05pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am only talking about the issue of who is English. I am not doing so to promote anything else. That idea resides only in your fevered imagination. I am doing so to highlight the fact that it is determined by a belief in, and acceptance of, our culture and traditions and not by trying to identify genes. Which is both wholly impractical and completely inaccurate. So a Chinese can claim to be English? Can an Englishman claim to be Chinese? Can I claim to be a Black man? I mean why not. You only have to accept the culture right?

Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jun 24 8.05pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am only talking about the issue of who is English.

I am not doing so to promote anything else. That idea resides only in your fevered imagination.

So a Chinese can claim to be English?
Can an Englishman claim to be Chinese?

Can I claim to be a Black man? I mean why not. You only have to accept the culture right?

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Jun 24 8.43pm
Roger Daltrey - English Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 22 Jun 24 8.43pm

Roger Daltrey - English

Red and Blue Army!

PalazioVecchio south pole 22 Jun 24 9.16pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Roger Daltrey - English any Englishman with a D at the start of his surname, is likely to be of Norman stock. from google ..."Daltrey is one of the thousands of new names that the Norman Conquest brought to England in 1066. The Daltrey family lived in Sussex at Moor House, Petworth, not far from Battle Abbey. 1 Hawtrie is an adaptation of Hauterive, Normandy, the name of which literally means high river. Richard Dawkins.....D'awkin....an african man. ------------------------------------------ on a side note, the Norman Invasion had a huge Breton contingent. Could have been as much as 40% of the army of William the b******. and them subsequently becoming english the same way the other Normans did. However, as Breton speakers they were first Cousins of the Welsh. Back in the 1920s the Welsh Lloyd George had parlay with Clemenceau (i think it was him ).....who had Breton roots....and without English nor French, they could understand each other. Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Jun 2024 9.25pm) Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Jun 2024 9.27pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 22 Jun 24 9.16pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Roger Daltrey - English

any Englishman with a D at the start of his surname, is likely to be of Norman stock.

from google ..."Daltrey is one of the thousands of new names that the Norman Conquest brought to England in 1066. The Daltrey family lived in Sussex at Moor House, Petworth, not far from Battle Abbey. 1 Hawtrie is an adaptation of Hauterive, Normandy, the name of which literally means high river.

Richard Dawkins.....D'awkin....an african man.

------------------------------------------

on a side note, the Norman Invasion had a huge Breton contingent. Could have been as much as 40% of the army of William the b******.

and them subsequently becoming english the same way the other Normans did. However, as Breton speakers they were first Cousins of the Welsh.

Back in the 1920s the Welsh Lloyd George had parlay with Clemenceau (i think it was him ).....who had Breton roots....and without English nor French, they could understand each other.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Jun 2024 9.25pm)

Edited by PalazioVecchio (22 Jun 2024 9.27pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 10.30pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So a Chinese can claim to be English? Can an Englishman claim to be Chinese? Can I claim to be a Black man? I mean why not. You only have to accept the culture right? An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English. I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman. Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Jun 24 10.30pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So a Chinese can claim to be English?
Can an Englishman claim to be Chinese?

Can I claim to be a Black man? I mean why not. You only have to accept the culture right?

An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English.

I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman.

Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Beanyboysmd 23 Jun 24 12.06am
Originally posted by becky I think being English is a bit like being a 'villager' in a smallish country village - it takes at least 5 generations before you qualify. I would say I am English - we have traced the family back to 1518 with one Dutchman and one female of dubious parentage (believed to be the daughter of the Romanies that worked on the land)as the only 'blots on the landscape. If you thought like an American, you would be proudly calling yourself a 'dutch brit'

Beanyboysmd

23 Jun 24 12.06am

Originally posted by becky

I think being English is a bit like being a 'villager' in a smallish country village - it takes at least 5 generations before you qualify.

I would say I am English - we have traced the family back to 1518 with one Dutchman and one female of dubious parentage (believed to be the daughter of the Romanies that worked on the land)as the only 'blots on the landscape.

If you thought like an American, you would be proudly calling yourself a 'dutch brit'

becky over the moon 23 Jun 24 6.43am
Originally posted by Beanyboysmd If you thought like an American, you would be proudly calling yourself a 'dutch brit' Better that than being called a dyke.... A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

becky

over the moon 23 Jun 24 6.43am

Originally posted by Beanyboysmd

If you thought like an American, you would be proudly calling yourself a 'dutch brit'

Better that than being called a dyke....

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

Teddy Eagle 23 Jun 24 8.58am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English. I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman. Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless. This ignores that there is a change in identity involved from one to the other. Can he be English until he decides he isn't and Chinese from then onwards?

Teddy Eagle

23 Jun 24 8.58am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English.

I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman.

Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless.

This ignores that there is a change in identity involved from one to the other. Can he be English until he decides he isn't and Chinese from then onwards?

Hrolf The Ganger 23 Jun 24 10.58am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English. I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman. Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless. You dodged the question. Can I be Chinese or Black just by embracing the culture or identifying as such? Take your pick with the specific nationality or 'ethnic group'. Its simple enough. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Jun 2024 11.00am)

Hrolf The Ganger

23 Jun 24 10.58am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

An Englishman is an Englishman, whatever their genetic origins might have been. Anyone who identifies as Chinese isn’t English.

I believe that China has 56 ethnic groups. Which one are you talking about? No Englishman can be Chinese, as he has obviously already identified as English or he wouldn’t be an Englishman.

Identify is not defined by skin tone, so your last question is meaningless.

You dodged the question.

Can I be Chinese or Black just by embracing the culture or identifying as such?

Take your pick with the specific nationality or 'ethnic group'.

Its simple enough.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Jun 2024 11.00am)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 11.47am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle This ignores that there is a change in identity involved from one to the other. Can he be English until he decides he isn't and Chinese from then onwards? I suppose it is theoretically possible whilst being extremely improbable. A child could be born to English parents in China who perish and is then adopted and brought up in China, acquiring nothing but the local culture. They would then identify as whichever of the 56 Chinese ethnicities exist locally. I guess there could be other possibilities. Whether they have ever occurred is another question. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 11.47am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

This ignores that there is a change in identity involved from one to the other. Can he be English until he decides he isn't and Chinese from then onwards?

I suppose it is theoretically possible whilst being extremely improbable.

A child could be born to English parents in China who perish and is then adopted and brought up in China, acquiring nothing but the local culture. They would then identify as whichever of the 56 Chinese ethnicities exist locally. I guess there could be other possibilities. Whether they have ever occurred is another question.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 11.59am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You dodged the question. Can I be Chinese or Black just by embracing the culture or identifying as such? Take your pick with the specific nationality or 'ethnic group'. Its simple enough. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Jun 2024 11.00am) I dodged nothing! I answered the question. You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices. You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity. Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own. Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 11.59am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You dodged the question.

Can I be Chinese or Black just by embracing the culture or identifying as such?

Take your pick with the specific nationality or 'ethnic group'.

Its simple enough.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (23 Jun 2024 11.00am)

I dodged nothing! I answered the question.

You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices.

You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity.

Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own.

Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 23 Jun 24 12.22pm
QQ Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I suppose it is theoretically possible whilst being extremely improbable. A child could be born to English parents in China who perish and is then adopted and brought up in China, acquiring nothing but the local culture. They would then identify as whichever of the 56 Chinese ethnicities exist locally. I guess there could be other possibilities. Whether they have ever occurred is another question. But these same criteria don't apply to anyone coming to England when identifying as English is enough to qualify.

Teddy Eagle

23 Jun 24 12.22pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I suppose it is theoretically possible whilst being extremely improbable.

But these same criteria don't apply to anyone coming to England when identifying as English is enough to qualify.

Stirlingsays 23 Jun 24 12.32pm
When people make the point that there are 56 ethnicities in China....if you actually look into this you find that, according to Wikipedia...a lefty source he likes to use.....'As of 2010, the combined population of officially-recognized minority groups comprised 8.49 percent of the population of Mainland China'. These groups have mostly been in China for very long time....it's not the fake manufactured situation that is happening in Europe. So in other words the vast majority of Chinese are the Han ethnicity you see and associate with the Chinese....Same ethnicity you see in Hong Kong. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jun 2024 12.34pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

23 Jun 24 12.32pm

When people make the point that there are 56 ethnicities in China....if you actually look into this you find that, according to Wikipedia...a lefty source he likes to use.....'As of 2010, the combined population of officially-recognized minority groups comprised 8.49 percent of the population of Mainland China'.

These groups have mostly been in China for very long time....it's not the fake manufactured situation that is happening in Europe.

So in other words the vast majority of Chinese are the Han ethnicity you see and associate with the Chinese....Same ethnicity you see in Hong Kong.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Jun 2024 12.34pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

PalazioVecchio south pole 23 Jun 24 12.35pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I dodged nothing! I answered the question. You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices. You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity. Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own. Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter. insanity Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

PalazioVecchio

south pole 23 Jun 24 12.35pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I dodged nothing! I answered the question.

You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices.

You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity.

Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own.

Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter.

insanity

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Stirlingsays 23 Jun 24 12.47pm
'Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own.' It differs in two regards. China does not recognize dual nationality. A child born in China to two foreign national parents is not eligible for Chinese nationality. China isn't under threat of its culture and ethnicity being replaced by immigration. If it were I have little doubt that it would clamp down. It would never allow the kind of subversive fifth columnists in to erode and diminish like Europe has. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

23 Jun 24 12.47pm

'Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own.'

It differs in two regards.

China does not recognize dual nationality.

A child born in China to two foreign national parents is not eligible for Chinese nationality.

China isn't under threat of its culture and ethnicity being replaced by immigration. If it were I have little doubt that it would clamp down.

It would never allow the kind of subversive fifth columnists in to erode and diminish like Europe has.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 23 Jun 24 12.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I dodged nothing! I answered the question. You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices. You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity. Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own. Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter. So now you are saying that I can be a Chinese just by having a Chinese passport? And Skin colour has no bearing on ethnicity? I think that we can just leave those hanging out there and let people grade them on the scale of bonkers.

Hrolf The Ganger

23 Jun 24 12.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I dodged nothing! I answered the question.

You though just cannot accept the answer because it doesn’t match your prejudices.

You cannot change your skin colour. Skin colour though has no bearing on your ethnicity.

Chinese is a nationality. Anyone can acquire Chinese citizenship if they meet the criteria, which are not unlike our own.

Identifying as one of the 56 different Chinese ethnicities would be more challenging for most, but could be done. Whether anyone wants to is another matter.

So now you are saying that I can be a Chinese just by having a Chinese passport?

And Skin colour has no bearing on ethnicity?

I think that we can just leave those hanging out there and let people grade them on the scale of bonkers.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 4.07pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle QQ But these same criteria don't apply to anyone coming to England when identifying as English is enough to qualify. Why? That the determination is made by the individual and not imposed on them either by government regulations or the prejudices of others doesn’t make it either likely or frequent. People identify with that they feel comfortable and correct with. They don’t have to announce it to others, who are entitled to think whatever they like. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 23 Jun 24 4.07pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But these same criteria don't apply to anyone coming to England when identifying as English is enough to qualify.

Why?

That the determination is made by the individual and not imposed on them either by government regulations or the prejudices of others doesn’t make it either likely or frequent.

People identify with that they feel comfortable and correct with. They don’t have to announce it to others, who are entitled to think whatever they like.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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