Of course. Just don't hold your breath. It would be 30 years by some of the Brexiteers own estimates before we recovered to where we were. The disaster will be apparent much sooner than that.

I shall retire from this thread for a while now and not return, unless by some miracle we do get a deal agreed, for a few months when we can review just how things are progressing.

Until then you can share each other's anti-EU sentiments, and prophecies of it's impending implosion, to your heart's content.

Remoaners tears have never tasted so delicious as they do today and I suspect for the next 48-72 hours or so although I still fear a betrayal.

If no-deal becomes a reality (and fingers crossed) one thing that I will never be able to understand is why this was not accepted as the default position from the start with any talks with the EU handled accordingly?

These redlines about fishing and the so called equal playing field in terms of regulations have existed since day 1 and it has also been clear that the EU simply cannot deliver an agreed mandate on them.

So assume No-Deal from the start and if a deal emerges by the end of it, so be it?

Still lets see. Plenty of twists and turns and my gut instinct is still that a deal has been done with only the machinations of internal EU wrangling to work itself out.

Of course. Just don't hold your breath. It would be 30 years by some of the Brexiteers own estimates before we recovered to where we were. The disaster will be apparent much sooner than that.

I shall retire from this thread for a while now and not return, unless by some miracle we do get a deal agreed, for a few months when we can review just how things are progressing.

Until then you can share each other's anti-EU sentiments, and prophecies of it's impending implosion, to your heart's content.

I have to say, I am far from optimistic. Just look at their record on a whole range of things especially Covid - hardly smacks of a competent administration on top of its game or even knowing what it's doing. The truth of the matter is that Boris likes to posture - ideally on the world stage; maybe the refusal of Merkle and Macron to engage with him might be a wake up call to "smell the coffee". His behaviour re the Internal Mkt Bill is coming back to haunt him but it's just a reflection of how he has always led his life.

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Boris has not done a great job so far but then we don't really leave the EU until next year. We at least can kick him out at the next election and pick a government that will do a better job.

This was always about controlling our own interests I think most Brexiteers are realistic enough to understand that we will get good and bad governments in the future which we can change unlike the straight jacket we were locked into by the EU.

One more point

You are essentially making the point at just how good a deal the UK had - outside the single currency, outside of Shengen, outside of the Social Chapter, numerous rebates etc. It will now be for the current Govt to demonstrate, and quickly, just how much better our lives and the economy will be as completely separate from the EU.

I have to say, I am far from optimistic. Just look at their record on a whole range of things especially Covid - hardly smacks of a competent administration on top of its game or even knowing what it's doing. The truth of the matter is that Boris likes to posture - ideally on the world stage; maybe the refusal of Merkle and Macron to engage with him might be a wake up call to "smell the coffee". His behaviour re the Internal Mkt Bill is coming back to haunt him but it's just a reflection of how he has always led his life.

As to your last point, I would certainly accept re-joining the EU as a member of the single currency, Shengen, ECJ etc - no more half in half out. Embrace Europe as we should have been doing for years and be at it's heart. Doubt that is your view but it's certainly mine.

My perspective is that despite all the hype, countries that are within the Euro have not done so badly with it; its a strong single currency (second only to the USD) and at the heart of most business aspects of the 27 with the fundamental aim of creating unity and peace - one of the founding principles of what has become todays EU.

I doubt however, as you say, if people were asked specifically about it that they would be pro the Euro - it would be about perceived issues of control all over again. That said, such decisions should be for Governments; that's why they are elected - to take the big decisions exactly as they should have done over membership of the EU. People at the heart of Govt at the time knew of the likely ramifications and they are now starting to unfold in a very clear and brutal way to the likely detriment of us all.

Anyway, that's my perspective - I guess time will ultimately be the decider but I for sure am not in the optimistic camp especially when the nonsence of so called Australian terms are revealed for the tosh that they always were - interestingly, strongly reinforced by Malcolm Turnbull last night

This is why the country is so divided and you revel in it, ie "Remainers tears".

Four and a half years to get no deal and spending billions of pounds to achieve the total sum of nothing.