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Rudi Hedman Caterham 17 Dec 20 11.57pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If we could build a great big wall all around the UK and never let anyone in, or out, ever again, and become totally self-sufficient in every aspect of life, feeding ourselves and manufacturing all we needed, then your plan might work. We would of course have to commit huge sums to our defence too. Life would be very hard and really boring. A bit like North Korea without the fun. There is though a basic problem. The people wouldn't accept it for a moment. The rest of the world exists. We are part of it and if they now think globally we have no choice than to do so too. They are both our customers and our suppliers. Today's world is interdependent. Mess with it and it's you that gets hurt. Sounds like a tantrum describing bitter rubbish. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 17 Dec 20 11.57pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If we could build a great big wall all around the UK and never let anyone in, or out, ever again, and become totally self-sufficient in every aspect of life, feeding ourselves and manufacturing all we needed, then your plan might work. We would of course have to commit huge sums to our defence too.

Life would be very hard and really boring. A bit like North Korea without the fun.

There is though a basic problem. The people wouldn't accept it for a moment. The rest of the world exists. We are part of it and if they now think globally we have no choice than to do so too. They are both our customers and our suppliers. Today's world is interdependent. Mess with it and it's you that gets hurt.

Sounds like a tantrum describing bitter rubbish.

COYP

Stirlingsays 18 Dec 20 1.13am
It's been confirmed that Big Ben will bong on the 31st of December as we transition from the EU. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Dec 20 1.13am

It's been confirmed that Big Ben will bong on the 31st of December as we transition from the EU.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

becky over the moon 18 Dec 20 7.23am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's been confirmed that Big Ben will bong on the 31st of December as we transition from the EU. I just had this awful vision of Tekkers, in a frock, smoking dope A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

becky

over the moon 18 Dec 20 7.23am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's been confirmed that Big Ben will bong on the 31st of December as we transition from the EU.

I just had this awful vision of Tekkers, in a frock, smoking dope

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

Badger11 Beckenham 18 Dec 20 8.15am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle If we could build a great big wall all around the UK and never let anyone in, or out, ever again, and become totally self-sufficient in every aspect of life, feeding ourselves and manufacturing all we needed, then your plan might work. We would of course have to commit huge sums to our defence too. Life would be very hard and really boring. A bit like North Korea without the fun. There is though a basic problem. The people wouldn't accept it for a moment. The rest of the world exists. We are part of it and if they now think globally we have no choice than to do so too. They are both our customers and our suppliers. Today's world is interdependent. Mess with it and it's you that gets hurt. Mistake 101 by the Remainers. Brexit is about expanding our horizons beyond the EU not pulling up the drawbridge. Yes we want a sensible immigration policy but that should be in the control of the elected government. When Labour next win I have no doubt that they will adjust the policy as is their right. As for self sufficiency what sensible person would not be in favour of it. Do we really want to rely on Russia and the Middle east for our energy? As for food I am fine with importing it especially the exotics but would prefer the basics to be home grown we were 6 weeks from starvation during WW2. Brexit should be an outward looking UK in control of its own affairs and trading with other nations. In this century the growth markets will not be US and Europe but the rest of the world we have a great opportunity to exploit that. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 18 Dec 20 8.15am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Life would be very hard and really boring. A bit like North Korea without the fun.

Mistake 101 by the Remainers.

Brexit is about expanding our horizons beyond the EU not pulling up the drawbridge. Yes we want a sensible immigration policy but that should be in the control of the elected government. When Labour next win I have no doubt that they will adjust the policy as is their right.

As for self sufficiency what sensible person would not be in favour of it. Do we really want to rely on Russia and the Middle east for our energy? As for food I am fine with importing it especially the exotics but would prefer the basics to be home grown we were 6 weeks from starvation during WW2.

Brexit should be an outward looking UK in control of its own affairs and trading with other nations. In this century the growth markets will not be US and Europe but the rest of the world we have a great opportunity to exploit that.

One more point

Mapletree Croydon 18 Dec 20 8.47am
Originally posted by Badger11 Mistake 101 by the Remainers. Brexit is about expanding our horizons beyond the EU not pulling up the drawbridge. Yes we want a sensible immigration policy but that should be in the control of the elected government. When Labour next win I have no doubt that they will adjust the policy as is their right. As for self sufficiency what sensible person would not be in favour of it. Do we really want to rely on Russia and the Middle east for our energy? As for food I am fine with importing it especially the exotics but would prefer the basics to be home grown we were 6 weeks from starvation during WW2. Brexit should be an outward looking UK in control of its own affairs and trading with other nations. In this century the growth markets will not be US and Europe but the rest of the world we have a great opportunity to exploit that. Mistake 101 for brexiteers, lots of wishful thinking and no assurance 102 expect anything other than a race to the bottom 103 trust the Government 104 overlook the hand of Russia in precipitating this most damaging move for both the UK and EU. Trust nobody unless they have the same skin in the game as us.

Mapletree

Croydon 18 Dec 20 8.47am

Originally posted by Badger11

Mistake 101 by the Remainers.

Mistake 101 for brexiteers, lots of wishful thinking and no assurance

102 expect anything other than a race to the bottom

103 trust the Government

104 overlook the hand of Russia in precipitating this most damaging move for both the UK and EU.

Trust nobody unless they have the same skin in the game as us.

Badger11 Beckenham 18 Dec 20 9.26am
Originally posted by Mapletree Mistake 101 for brexiteers, lots of wishful thinking and no assurance 102 expect anything other than a race to the bottom 103 trust the Government 104 overlook the hand of Russia in precipitating this most damaging move for both the UK and EU. Trust nobody unless they have the same skin in the game as us. Well then vote for a government that you think reflects your views I believe they call it democracy, not perfect but better than the alternatives. Even WE believes in it he said respect the vote the other day on a separate thread. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 18 Dec 20 9.26am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Mistake 101 for brexiteers, lots of wishful thinking and no assurance

102 expect anything other than a race to the bottom

103 trust the Government

104 overlook the hand of Russia in precipitating this most damaging move for both the UK and EU.

Trust nobody unless they have the same skin in the game as us.

Well then vote for a government that you think reflects your views I believe they call it democracy, not perfect but better than the alternatives.

Even WE believes in it he said respect the vote the other day on a separate thread.

One more point

mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 18 Dec 20 9.43am
Originally posted by Badger11 57 trade deals signed so far. [Link] Meanwhile the SNP is saying it will refuse the navy access to Scottish waters if they try and prevent EU fishing vessels entering. It's nonsense of course because these are UK waters and the Scottish government doesn't have the power still it says a lot about the SNP that they will side with the EU against the Scottish fishing industry. I doubt the SNP will be getting many votes in that sector if they continue with these threats. Edited by Badger11 (13 Dec 2020 9.46am) There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable. Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest. If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 18 Dec 20 9.43am

Originally posted by Badger11

57 trade deals signed so far.

[Link]

Meanwhile the SNP is saying it will refuse the navy access to Scottish waters if they try and prevent EU fishing vessels entering. It's nonsense of course because these are UK waters and the Scottish government doesn't have the power still it says a lot about the SNP that they will side with the EU against the Scottish fishing industry.

I doubt the SNP will be getting many votes in that sector if they continue with these threats.

Edited by Badger11 (13 Dec 2020 9.46am)

There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable.

Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest.

If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

Badger11 Beckenham 18 Dec 20 9.59am
Originally posted by mezzer There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable. Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest. If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well. LOL Apparently the French want a 10 year deal which gives them same as now. That is too long I would offer them a 5 year deal with the same as now for the first and possibly the 2nd year and then decreasing after that to say 50% by the end of that deal. At the end of 5 years have another look if the British fleet is not taking up its full quota by then then I think there is wiggle room. The UK wants an annual deal I think that is a starting point for negotiations, do we really want to be having this row with the EU every year? A 5 year deal allows both sides to plan, 10 years is too long. Edited by Badger11 (18 Dec 2020 10.00am) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 18 Dec 20 9.59am

Originally posted by mezzer

There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable.

Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest.

If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well.

LOL

Apparently the French want a 10 year deal which gives them same as now. That is too long I would offer them a 5 year deal with the same as now for the first and possibly the 2nd year and then decreasing after that to say 50% by the end of that deal.

At the end of 5 years have another look if the British fleet is not taking up its full quota by then then I think there is wiggle room.

The UK wants an annual deal I think that is a starting point for negotiations, do we really want to be having this row with the EU every year? A 5 year deal allows both sides to plan, 10 years is too long.

Edited by Badger11 (18 Dec 2020 10.00am)

One more point

Matov 18 Dec 20 1.06pm
Really wary of this fishing stuff. In terms of the bigger picture, it is almost an irrelevance and whilst the significance of it in terms of an actual real example of where sovereignty will be strengthened by our departure (every legal precedent is on the UK's side) it is primarily symbolic rather than a genuine economic consideration. What I really want to scrutinise is the other stuff about this 'level playing field' malarky. Because the whole point of Brexit is to make the UK more competitive. If we have been betrayed on that question then it means the wider 'Brexit' campaign is not over yet. My rather cynical/paranoid view is that fishing is a smoke screen both sides are using to hide the real meat of any deal from genuine scrutiny until it is voted through. Edited by Matov (18 Dec 2020 1.07pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

18 Dec 20 1.06pm

Really wary of this fishing stuff. In terms of the bigger picture, it is almost an irrelevance and whilst the significance of it in terms of an actual real example of where sovereignty will be strengthened by our departure (every legal precedent is on the UK's side) it is primarily symbolic rather than a genuine economic consideration.

What I really want to scrutinise is the other stuff about this 'level playing field' malarky. Because the whole point of Brexit is to make the UK more competitive. If we have been betrayed on that question then it means the wider 'Brexit' campaign is not over yet.

My rather cynical/paranoid view is that fishing is a smoke screen both sides are using to hide the real meat of any deal from genuine scrutiny until it is voted through.

Edited by Matov (18 Dec 2020 1.07pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Beckenham 18 Dec 20 2.28pm
Originally posted by Matov Really wary of this fishing stuff. In terms of the bigger picture, it is almost an irrelevance and whilst the significance of it in terms of an actual real example of where sovereignty will be strengthened by our departure (every legal precedent is on the UK's side) it is primarily symbolic rather than a genuine economic consideration. What I really want to scrutinise is the other stuff about this 'level playing field' malarky. Because the whole point of Brexit is to make the UK more competitive. If we have been betrayed on that question then it means the wider 'Brexit' campaign is not over yet. My rather cynical/paranoid view is that fishing is a smoke screen both sides are using to hide the real meat of any deal from genuine scrutiny until it is voted through. Edited by Matov (18 Dec 2020 1.07pm) As always Matov you hit the nail on the head. I really suspect this is all stage management to frighten us into accepting EU control. Boris must stand his ground. Your point on fishing is valid if that is really the only hold up I would be prepared to compromise. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 18 Dec 20 2.28pm

Originally posted by Matov

My rather cynical/paranoid view is that fishing is a smoke screen both sides are using to hide the real meat of any deal from genuine scrutiny until it is voted through.

Edited by Matov (18 Dec 2020 1.07pm)

As always Matov you hit the nail on the head. I really suspect this is all stage management to frighten us into accepting EU control.

Boris must stand his ground. Your point on fishing is valid if that is really the only hold up I would be prepared to compromise.

One more point

Hrolf The Ganger 18 Dec 20 4.02pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Mistake 101 by the Remainers. Brexit is about expanding our horizons beyond the EU not pulling up the drawbridge. Yes we want a sensible immigration policy but that should be in the control of the elected government. When Labour next win I have no doubt that they will adjust the policy as is their right. As for self sufficiency what sensible person would not be in favour of it. Do we really want to rely on Russia and the Middle east for our energy? As for food I am fine with importing it especially the exotics but would prefer the basics to be home grown we were 6 weeks from starvation during WW2. Brexit should be an outward looking UK in control of its own affairs and trading with other nations. In this century the growth markets will not be US and Europe but the rest of the world we have a great opportunity to exploit that. Indeed. The stupid comments by certain posters are frankly pathetic. The idea that Brexit is about isolation and clinging on to vestiges of our long lost empire days is feeble minded twaddle from dim wits. Some people clearly want us to be absorbed into the inevitable US of E and have policy dictated by Germany. All these kinds of issues were around when the USA formed and still remain to this day. Even when they gained independence, many were not happy about that, and subsequently, anti federalists complained about the new national government. That was Americans governing Americans. In this context, the anti federalism is about the British governing Britain. For some reason, Remainers want to dismantle British society and undermine our authority and self determination. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Dec 2020 4.02pm)

Hrolf The Ganger

18 Dec 20 4.02pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Mistake 101 by the Remainers.

Indeed.

The stupid comments by certain posters are frankly pathetic.
The idea that Brexit is about isolation and clinging on to vestiges of our long lost empire days is feeble minded twaddle from dim wits.

Some people clearly want us to be absorbed into the inevitable US of E and have policy dictated by Germany.

All these kinds of issues were around when the USA formed and still remain to this day. Even when they gained independence, many were not happy about that, and subsequently, anti federalists complained about the new national government. That was Americans governing Americans.
In this context, the anti federalism is about the British governing Britain. For some reason, Remainers want to dismantle British society and undermine our authority and self determination.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Dec 2020 4.02pm)

jeeagles 18 Dec 20 5.33pm
Originally posted by mezzer There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable. Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest. If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well. The solutions are pretty simple. Theres no real flurry of activity from either side in terms of implementing no-deal contingency plans. No major recruitment and training drives or panics. We've said we'll send out a couple of ships to patrol waters. That's about it. There seem to be no leaks at all from anyone in the tight lipped negotiating teams on either side. I really think the deal may be pretty much done. Politician's are just making a song and dance to show they fought out negotiations until the very end.

jeeagles

18 Dec 20 5.33pm

Originally posted by mezzer

There's quite a simple compromise on this fishing standoff and one that I can't see either side will see as unreasonable.

Just say pollocks to the French, and we keep the rest.

If pushed, pollocks to Scotland as well.

The solutions are pretty simple.

Theres no real flurry of activity from either side in terms of implementing no-deal contingency plans. No major recruitment and training drives or panics. We've said we'll send out a couple of ships to patrol waters. That's about it.

There seem to be no leaks at all from anyone in the tight lipped negotiating teams on either side.

I really think the deal may be pretty much done. Politician's are just making a song and dance to show they fought out negotiations until the very end.

Stirlingsays 18 Dec 20 8.42pm
An excellent interview with Godfrey Bloom where he talks about the EU. [Link] An excellent insight into the civil service and their motivations and the EU gravy train.....how they view things and what they want for the future. (Not really for remainers) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

18 Dec 20 8.42pm

An excellent interview with Godfrey Bloom where he talks about the EU.

[Link]

An excellent insight into the civil service and their motivations and the EU gravy train.....how they view things and what they want for the future.

(Not really for remainers)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

kevlee born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 18 Dec 20 9.28pm
The fish issue is what Brext is all about. Its about sovereignty and the right to stick two fingers up to the EU and say F-uck you. As Boris said when people asked questions about the economic consequences. "F-ck Business". A no deal is what he desperately wants as it will be to his political advantage. Economic consequences are not his priority. I'm ready for no deal and no that bothered as I don't work in car factory and my firm has followed Rees- Mogg's example and moved some operations to the EU. Plus I'm happy to eat English produce and support British farmers. Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

kevlee

born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 18 Dec 20 9.28pm

The fish issue is what Brext is all about. Its about sovereignty and the right to stick two fingers up to the EU and say F-uck you.
As Boris said when people asked questions about the economic consequences. "F-ck Business". A no deal is what he desperately wants as it will be to his political advantage. Economic consequences are not his priority.
I'm ready for no deal and no that bothered as I don't work in car factory and my firm has followed Rees- Mogg's example and moved some operations to the EU. Plus I'm happy to eat English produce and support British farmers.

Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 18 Dec 20 9.55pm
Originally posted by kevlee The fish issue is what Brext is all about. Its about sovereignty and the right to stick two fingers up to the EU and say F-uck you. As Boris said when people asked questions about the economic consequences. "F-ck Business". A no deal is what he desperately wants as it will be to his political advantage. Economic consequences are not his priority. I'm ready for no deal and no that bothered as I don't work in car factory and my firm has followed Rees- Mogg's example and moved some operations to the EU. Plus I'm happy to eat English produce and support British farmers. I think as was already said the fishing issue is a smokescreen, both probably think they have a better deal than the other on other issues, i always buy british, unless i see a better deal from an Irish, Polish, Spanish or German farmer, then market forces come in to play, and my euros go to them.

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 18 Dec 20 9.55pm

Originally posted by kevlee

I think as was already said the fishing issue is a smokescreen, both probably think they have a better deal than the other on other issues, i always buy british, unless i see a better deal from an Irish, Polish, Spanish or German farmer, then market forces come in to play, and my euros go to them.

Mapletree Croydon 18 Dec 20 10.09pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Indeed. The stupid comments by certain posters are frankly pathetic. The idea that Brexit is about isolation and clinging on to vestiges of our long lost empire days is feeble minded twaddle from dim wits. Some people clearly want us to be absorbed into the inevitable US of E and have policy dictated by Germany. All these kinds of issues were around when the USA formed and still remain to this day. Even when they gained independence, many were not happy about that, and subsequently, anti federalists complained about the new national government. That was Americans governing Americans. In this context, the anti federalism is about the British governing Britain. For some reason, Remainers want to dismantle British society and undermine our authority and self determination. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Dec 2020 4.02pm) Great argument. Basically you are recommending US states should leave the Union. The good news is that makes way for us to become a protectorate of the USA, de facto even if not in law. Edited by Mapletree (18 Dec 2020 10.10pm)

Mapletree

Croydon 18 Dec 20 10.09pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Indeed.

The stupid comments by certain posters are frankly pathetic.
The idea that Brexit is about isolation and clinging on to vestiges of our long lost empire days is feeble minded twaddle from dim wits.

Some people clearly want us to be absorbed into the inevitable US of E and have policy dictated by Germany.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (18 Dec 2020 4.02pm)

Great argument. Basically you are recommending US states should leave the Union.

The good news is that makes way for us to become a protectorate of the USA, de facto even if not in law.

Edited by Mapletree (18 Dec 2020 10.10pm)

Hrolf The Ganger 18 Dec 20 10.32pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Great argument. Basically you are recommending US states should leave the Union. The good news is that makes way for us to become a protectorate of the USA, de facto even if not in law. Edited by Mapletree (18 Dec 2020 10.10pm) Really? I thought I was giving a second rate history lesson. I would be very happy to be more aligned with America since we share a language, have similar cultures and rely on them for military protection.

Hrolf The Ganger

18 Dec 20 10.32pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Great argument. Basically you are recommending US states should leave the Union.

The good news is that makes way for us to become a protectorate of the USA, de facto even if not in law.

Edited by Mapletree (18 Dec 2020 10.10pm)

Really? I thought I was giving a second rate history lesson.
I would be very happy to be more aligned with America since we share a language, have similar cultures and rely on them for military protection.

Mapletree Croydon 18 Dec 20 11.11pm
In the last three and a half years, 90 percent of global fines levied on financial institutions (total $14 billion) were issued by United States (US) regulators. Of note is the fact that UK, French, German and Swiss banks, with branches stateside, paid nearly 40 percent of the total fines relating to economic crime in the US. So of course we are about to win back our sovereignty. We don’t have to live by the rules of others any more. And the USA is the best country to do business with. And certainly doesn't ‘tax’ foreign firms through back door means and force them to behave as if they are US firms.

Mapletree

Croydon 18 Dec 20 11.11pm

In the last three and a half years, 90 percent of global fines levied on financial institutions (total $14 billion) were issued by United States (US) regulators. Of note is the fact that UK, French, German and Swiss banks, with branches stateside, paid nearly 40 percent of the total fines relating to economic crime in the US.

So of course we are about to win back our sovereignty. We don’t have to live by the rules of others any more. And the USA is the best country to do business with. And certainly doesn't ‘tax’ foreign firms through back door means and force them to behave as if they are US firms.

georgenorman 19 Dec 20 6.05pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC What's hilarious is to think that the EU can afford to not sell its goods to the UK. Yes, all French wine will be gone - they'd rather pour it down the sink. There will be no VWs, BMWs, Citroëns, yeah of course mate. They will all be fine with half their business gone. French cars are s***e anyway.

georgenorman

19 Dec 20 6.05pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

What's hilarious is to think that the EU can afford to not sell its goods to the UK. Yes, all French wine will be gone - they'd rather pour it down the sink. There will be no VWs, BMWs, Citroëns, yeah of course mate. They will all be fine with half their business gone.

French cars are s***e anyway.

georgenorman 19 Dec 20 6.05pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC What's hilarious is to think that the EU can afford to not sell its goods to the UK. Yes, all French wine will be gone - they'd rather pour it down the sink. There will be no VWs, BMWs, Citroëns, yeah of course mate. They will all be fine with half their business gone. French cars are s***e anyway.

georgenorman

19 Dec 20 6.05pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

French cars are s***e anyway.

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