Well said, I can add that i renewed my passport recently and ditched my gb one for an Irish full access Eu one, I am a citizen of the world and might fancy living somewhere else{within Europe anyway with my Irish passport}.

Not for the first time I find one of your posts so wide of the truth as to demand a response.

What you have to understand, and I am more than willing to confess that I never really comprehended it until we saw the aftermath from the 2016 referendum, that almost all of these Remoaners actually see themselves as much as Europeans as they do British. And this goes beyond the usual bulls*** where people wear Guiness hats on Saint Paddys day or get married in kilts because they had a Sweaty Great Grandmother.

I reluctantly voted to remain. I was reluctant because I thought holding a referendum on this issue to be a denial of democracy and not any kind of confirmation of it. A belief I continue to hold. Nothing I have subsequently said is therefor a "moan" when it is my position that it ought never have happened and that our Parliament has failed to do it's duty. Using childish epithets like "remoaner" is just dragging the discussion into the nursery. Whether you accept it or not the fact is we are all Europeans.That's where we live.

It is (or rather was) actually a significant part of how they identify themselves. How they separate themselves from the common herd. Now there has always been a tendency amongst sections of our class-ridden system to sneer at their fellow countrymen with the Left especially prone to this (Orwell wrote some fantastic stuff exploring this phenomena) so getting those stupid maroon passports was them a really big deal for them.

That's simply pathetic. It has nothing to do with the left, or class. It only has to do with how some see a more secure and successful future when we are part of a bigger European family. The secure part often being ignored.

Never in a million years did they think the Great Unwashed would actually deny them it and their spite ever since has been quite staggering. Really bitter stuff. Wishing death and destruction of wealth on millions. Actually arguing that since a load of old people had died, then it meant the result from 2016 could now be ignored.

More bs. When it became known that the, unwanted by many, referendum had been compromised by Russian interference we demanded Parliament do what they were elected to do and take decisions they believed were in our best interests. They bottled it. Knowing that the tide of opinion was flowing the other way as the promises unravelled a confirmatory referendum seemed the obvious compromise. What should the leavers fear about that? If they were still right they would win! "Remoaner" piffle" "Scaredy-cat leaver" is a more apposite term in this playground.

I accept that I am boring about it and perhaps now is the time to try and shake myself free of the utter, visceral, loathing that I feel towards Remoaners, but the disgusting attempt to usurp perhaps the single biggest democratic exercise in British history is one that I hope history looks back on and condemns with absolute clarity.

You are less boring than just wrong. Your prejudices are getting in the way of your reasoning.

These people genuinely believe their votes should count for more than other people. The definition of arrogance. With their language and actions ever since for me border into what they like to champion the most for everybody else in terms of hate speech. Many of them literally cheered on the death of people who voted Leave.

Of course not. I just want our democracy to work as it is intended to. Via a GE and our MPs. Which it did last year, but the Parliament prior to that was the failure, primarily caused not by the Tories but by the Corbyn led Labour party.

Terrible people who should be hanging their heads with utter shame.

Yes you are and yes you should. Your approach will see the UK split up and our country decline. All because of stupid pride and a yearning for things that are no longer available.

Let's all hope so.

I agree. We all want our country to prosper and will be doing all we can to ensure it does, whatever situation we are in.

You will never though get the hardline anti-EU mob to accept they were wrong. They would rather England be divorced from Scotland, Wales and NI and become a third world country just so long as it is "our" third world country.

Stirling - how can you say that few voted to leave on economic grounds?
Sure there were some jingoistic votes and some who voted on purely immigration grounds but an awful lot of people I know voted for the same reasons as I did.
The EU - let's say Germany and France - wants total control of its member states and to that end is prepared to ruin economies to ensure that those countries can never leave.
To that end the strong economies will have to provide the financial support and we are one of those.
The EU is in despair and fear that we have left and while it will take a few years we will prosper outside the EU.
It is my honest belief that the EU will cease to exist in anything like it's current form within 20 years.
Matov- great post!!!!

Yep. Just read the bbs. One post on there, couple of weeks ago “ I hope all those that voted leave, lose their jobs and they and their families suffer for a long time” how very nice

I find it rather ironic that a couple of the biggest remoaners on here are retired. They add nothing to our country or to Europe whether we are in or out. Not sure why they give a damn either way.

They are simply as described, moaners.

A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity.

It is pure Johnson-balls.

The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day.

The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade.

Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest
aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter.

No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.