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steeleye20 Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.05am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Come off it Wisbech. The EU only has one ultimate ambition. The centralisation of power. If you are too short sighted to see that then it explains a lot about your other opinions. The inevitable consequence of globalisation will be fewer people with greater power over more people. A sort of planet wide communism where 99% of people become equally poor. The whole point of a power bloc is obviously to wield that power for its own interests. A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.05am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Come off it Wisbech. The EU only has one ultimate ambition. The centralisation of power. If you are too short sighted to see that then it explains a lot about your other opinions.

The inevitable consequence of globalisation will be fewer people with greater power over more people. A sort of planet wide communism where 99% of people become equally poor.

The whole point of a power bloc is obviously to wield that power for its own interests.

A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly.

steeleye20 Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.31am
Sir Kier Starmer is to opposing the tories what Mother Theresa was to black Emanuelle.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.31am

Sir Kier Starmer is to opposing the tories what Mother Theresa was to black Emanuelle.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Dec 20 11.35am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Yes. You’ve said this before. It’s a system hardly served by the political giants currently in situ. Voting out inept MPs isn’t an option in an age of identity politics. Who we vote in or out is ultimately up to us. If it gets to be regarded as important then change can happen. Inept MPs can and do get exposed locally. What concerns me is how to limit the influence of activists with extreme views which are out of alignment with the mainstream in their party, or the local electorate, without discouraging a greater involvement in politics. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 29 Dec 20 11.35am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Yes. You’ve said this before. It’s a system hardly served by the political giants currently in situ. Voting out inept MPs isn’t an option in an age of identity politics.

Who we vote in or out is ultimately up to us. If it gets to be regarded as important then change can happen. Inept MPs can and do get exposed locally. What concerns me is how to limit the influence of activists with extreme views which are out of alignment with the mainstream in their party, or the local electorate, without discouraging a greater involvement in politics.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Badger11 Beckenham 29 Dec 20 11.41am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle There are times when the whip is appropriate and times when it is not. A free vote on matters of conscience, like the death penalty, has always been the convention. Whether whipped or not, an MP can always ignore it. The issue is the penalties to their future career that they risk and it's those that need addressing, particularly at a local level. MPs were free to support either "leave" or "remain" during the referendum campaign and this should have continued without any pressure. Correct and once the result was known at the next GE the parties had all formed policies which were a key plank to their electoral manifesto's. MPs who campaigned for their party manifesto and then voted against Brexit betrayed the electorate. I have some sympathy for MP's like Ken Clark who made his feelings known to the voters that he was a Remainer he was deceiving no one. Boris did what Mrs May should have done he kicked out those who had lied to their voters and at the 2019 GE not one of those scum, was voted back in so the electorate had their say as well. Edited by Badger11 (29 Dec 2020 11.42am) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 29 Dec 20 11.41am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

There are times when the whip is appropriate and times when it is not. A free vote on matters of conscience, like the death penalty, has always been the convention. Whether whipped or not, an MP can always ignore it. The issue is the penalties to their future career that they risk and it's those that need addressing, particularly at a local level.

MPs were free to support either "leave" or "remain" during the referendum campaign and this should have continued without any pressure.

Correct and once the result was known at the next GE the parties had all formed policies which were a key plank to their electoral manifesto's. MPs who campaigned for their party manifesto and then voted against Brexit betrayed the electorate.

I have some sympathy for MP's like Ken Clark who made his feelings known to the voters that he was a Remainer he was deceiving no one.

Boris did what Mrs May should have done he kicked out those who had lied to their voters and at the 2019 GE not one of those scum, was voted back in so the electorate had their say as well.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Dec 2020 11.42am)

One more point

Stirlingsays 29 Dec 20 11.44am
Originally posted by steeleye20 The whole point of a power bloc is obviously to wield that power for its own interests. A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly. There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

29 Dec 20 11.44am

Originally posted by steeleye20

The whole point of a power bloc is obviously to wield that power for its own interests.

A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly.

There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

BlueJay UK 29 Dec 20 11.50am
Originally posted by Eaglecoops The natural laws of supply and demand should prevail. Reduce the demand and prices will fall, it’s simple. What I don’t agree with is artificially affecting the housing market in any way by some communist form of legislation that restricts property ownership. At the end of the day, if someone owns say 10 properties, they are not just leaving them empty, they are providing a much needed rental sector. Not everyone wants to buy. If you want real change to the housing market then you need to change lots of things such as: 1. Remove excess demand. Controlling borders should help with this. 2. Build, build, build. Let’s get jobs, apprenticeships and the economy moving by government backed development. This should provide more rented and affordable housing and meet the new green technology requirements. 3. Stop foreign investment in the UK property market. Let’s have the people, the government and British business owning British property. 4. The principle of fair rent is not unreasonable and should return. It needs a lot of work though and re-implementing the old system would not be good. There is lots that could be done and discussions on this could go on for days, however the basic principle is reduce excess demand by controlling the growth of population and increasing the supply of property. Simple economics will then make property affordable. The property market is just one of many fantastic opportunities for this country to improve itself post Brexit. I agree with all of your above 4 points, well stated. Making those changes would most certainly help both the hard working, and younger people looking to get onto the housing ladder. It would also ensure that those renting are doing so out of choice rather than necessity, which often isn't the case right now. Most people realistically can just about afford to pay a mortgage, but the system is set up in such a way that the mortgage happens to be someone elses. My major concern is that there is no genuine interest by the political classes to push the above points you stated, because doing so would impact their own financial situation negatively. At least outside of the EU, they can no longer point to factors beyond their control. The buck stops with them. Time to hold their feel to the fire on issues like this. Edited by BlueJay (29 Dec 2020 11.55am)

BlueJay

UK 29 Dec 20 11.50am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

The natural laws of supply and demand should prevail. Reduce the demand and prices will fall, it’s simple.

What I don’t agree with is artificially affecting the housing market in any way by some communist form of legislation that restricts property ownership. At the end of the day, if someone owns say 10 properties, they are not just leaving them empty, they are providing a much needed rental sector. Not everyone wants to buy.

If you want real change to the housing market then you need to change lots of things such as:

1. Remove excess demand. Controlling borders should help with this.
2. Build, build, build. Let’s get jobs, apprenticeships and the economy moving by government backed development. This should provide more rented and affordable housing and meet the new green technology requirements.
3. Stop foreign investment in the UK property market. Let’s have the people, the government and British business owning British property.
4. The principle of fair rent is not unreasonable and should return. It needs a lot of work though and re-implementing the old system would not be good.

There is lots that could be done and discussions on this could go on for days, however the basic principle is reduce excess demand by controlling the growth of population and increasing the supply of property. Simple economics will then make property affordable.

The property market is just one of many fantastic opportunities for this country to improve itself post Brexit.

I agree with all of your above 4 points, well stated. Making those changes would most certainly help both the hard working, and younger people looking to get onto the housing ladder. It would also ensure that those renting are doing so out of choice rather than necessity, which often isn't the case right now. Most people realistically can just about afford to pay a mortgage, but the system is set up in such a way that the mortgage happens to be someone elses.

My major concern is that there is no genuine interest by the political classes to push the above points you stated, because doing so would impact their own financial situation negatively. At least outside of the EU, they can no longer point to factors beyond their control. The buck stops with them. Time to hold their feel to the fire on issues like this.

Edited by BlueJay (29 Dec 2020 11.55am)

Matov 29 Dec 20 11.50am
Originally posted by steeleye20 A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly. And no doubt helped by the UK's departure meaning there are no real strong voices to oppose it based on China's human rights record and its actions in Hong Kong. Still better to allow Germany to export more to China and support the entire rotten edifice that is the Euro. Might be some interesting consequences. I know we were all meant to believe that old sleepy Joe Biden loved nothing more than wearing one of those half & half flags combining the tricolour of Ireland and the Blue & Gold of the EU but it turns out Washington ain't to impressed with the EU and its cozying up to China. They are trying to whisper it but the word on the street is that Trumps policy of opposing the Chinese might actually continue you know with even your boy Obama conceding that perhaps he was a little to lenient with them. Strange old world at times. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

29 Dec 20 11.50am

Originally posted by steeleye20

A major trade deal between the EU and China coming up shortly.

And no doubt helped by the UK's departure meaning there are no real strong voices to oppose it based on China's human rights record and its actions in Hong Kong.

Still better to allow Germany to export more to China and support the entire rotten edifice that is the Euro.

Might be some interesting consequences. I know we were all meant to believe that old sleepy Joe Biden loved nothing more than wearing one of those half & half flags combining the tricolour of Ireland and the Blue & Gold of the EU but it turns out Washington ain't to impressed with the EU and its cozying up to China.

They are trying to whisper it but the word on the street is that Trumps policy of opposing the Chinese might actually continue you know with even your boy Obama conceding that perhaps he was a little to lenient with them.

Strange old world at times.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

steeleye20 Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.51am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out. I am still in the EU as cultural ambassador to the HOL.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Dec 20 11.51am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out.

I am still in the EU as cultural ambassador to the HOL.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Dec 20 11.55am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Come off it Wisbech. The EU only has one ultimate ambition. The centralisation of power. If you are too short sighted to see that then it explains a lot about your other opinions. The inevitable consequence of globalisation will be fewer people with greater power over more people. A sort of planet wide communism where 99% of people become equally poor. Why do you always attach negative motivations to people who you have decided to dislike? Any "short-sightedness" here emanates entirely from you. The EU has no such ambition at all. It's ambition is security and prosperity for it's people. The over-riding principle is, which ought never be forgotten, subsidiarity. Sometimes that means things being done centrally when it is better to do so. When they are better done locally then they will be. That may well mean that in the future some countries in the EU decide to combine their political systems. That will be up to each country to decide. It cannot be imposed by the EU. There was never the slightest chance of the UK wanting to combine with anyone else. Your warped view of globalism is one I find all over right-wing sites based in the USA. Globalism was indeed inevitable but it does not and cannot replace the nation-state. How they control, and in particular tax, multinationals who operate in their area, is something we are now beginning to see being reviewed more aggressively. It is yet another example of where leaving the EU weakens our position. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 29 Dec 20 11.55am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Come off it Wisbech. The EU only has one ultimate ambition. The centralisation of power. If you are too short sighted to see that then it explains a lot about your other opinions.

The inevitable consequence of globalisation will be fewer people with greater power over more people. A sort of planet wide communism where 99% of people become equally poor.

Why do you always attach negative motivations to people who you have decided to dislike? Any "short-sightedness" here emanates entirely from you.

The EU has no such ambition at all. It's ambition is security and prosperity for it's people. The over-riding principle is, which ought never be forgotten, subsidiarity.

Sometimes that means things being done centrally when it is better to do so. When they are better done locally then they will be. That may well mean that in the future some countries in the EU decide to combine their political systems. That will be up to each country to decide. It cannot be imposed by the EU. There was never the slightest chance of the UK wanting to combine with anyone else.

Your warped view of globalism is one I find all over right-wing sites based in the USA. Globalism was indeed inevitable but it does not and cannot replace the nation-state. How they control, and in particular tax, multinationals who operate in their area, is something we are now beginning to see being reviewed more aggressively. It is yet another example of where leaving the EU weakens our position.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 2.50pm
Originally posted by BlueJay Post Brexit I see housing as the real litmus test. Even at this time when people are in financial dire straits house prices go up and up. Now that we have control over our borders, that's certainly one box ticked in terms of combatting a generation being priced out. My concern though is that while we've peeled away one layer of government (EU) control, it will still prove to be one layer too many. Our own politicians and parties are chock-full of those benefiting from keeping the average hard working man on the hamster wheel, and our sons and daughters spending decades paying off someone elses mortgage. If any party 'genuinely' intended to address this problem they'd have my vote. Lesson one on day one at eton , how to start the hamster wheel spinning and how to make sure the hamsters never get off-lend lend lend!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 2.50pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

Post Brexit I see housing as the real litmus test. Even at this time when people are in financial dire straits house prices go up and up. Now that we have control over our borders, that's certainly one box ticked in terms of combatting a generation being priced out. My concern though is that while we've peeled away one layer of government (EU) control, it will still prove to be one layer too many. Our own politicians and parties are chock-full of those benefiting from keeping the average hard working man on the hamster wheel, and our sons and daughters spending decades paying off someone elses mortgage. If any party 'genuinely' intended to address this problem they'd have my vote.

Lesson one on day one at eton , how to start the hamster wheel spinning and how to make sure the hamsters never get off-lend lend lend!

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 2.54pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out. I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 2.54pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There's still time to leave for you beloved EU.....You and Croydon could even get the same plane out.

I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

steeleye20 Croydon 29 Dec 20 3.11pm
Personally I am really angry that my request for a 750 billion euros facility to tide me over the New Year has been rejected. Just because we are no longer in the EU there is no need to get personal. It sticks in my throat after all my years as a model europpean. Zaha to Milan they can stick it.

steeleye20

Croydon 29 Dec 20 3.11pm

Personally I am really angry that my request for a 750 billion euros facility to tide me over the New Year has been rejected.

Just because we are no longer in the EU there is no need to get personal.

It sticks in my throat after all my years as a model europpean.

Zaha to Milan they can stick it.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 3.19pm
ERG have backed the deal, the EU have backed the deal, everybodys happy, win win - lets trust boris to deliver in two days, maybe some cash up front to everybody until this new wealth really hits our pockets!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 3.19pm

ERG have backed the deal, the EU have backed the deal, everybodys happy, win win - lets trust boris to deliver in two days, maybe some cash up front to everybody until this new wealth really hits our pockets!

Spiderman Horsham 29 Dec 20 5.26pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust! May not be getting lolly but won’t be losing, until the sky falls in [Link]

Spiderman

Horsham 29 Dec 20 5.26pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

May not be getting lolly but won’t be losing, until the sky falls in

[Link]

Hrolf The Ganger 29 Dec 20 5.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Why do you always attach negative motivations to people who you have decided to dislike? Any "short-sightedness" here emanates entirely from you. The EU has no such ambition at all. It's ambition is security and prosperity for it's people. The over-riding principle is, which ought never be forgotten, subsidiarity. Sometimes that means things being done centrally when it is better to do so. When they are better done locally then they will be. That may well mean that in the future some countries in the EU decide to combine their political systems. That will be up to each country to decide. It cannot be imposed by the EU. There was never the slightest chance of the UK wanting to combine with anyone else. Your warped view of globalism is one I find all over right-wing sites based in the USA. Globalism was indeed inevitable but it does not and cannot replace the nation-state. How they control, and in particular tax, multinationals who operate in their area, is something we are now beginning to see being reviewed more aggressively. It is yet another example of where leaving the EU weakens our position. I don't read 'right wing' sites Wisbech but well done for the dog whistle. Our country has decided to take back control of law making and the ability to trade with whom we like. The EU started as a trading block and has since began slowly voting itself more powers. Only the truly naive cannot see where that is heading. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Dec 2020 6.00pm)

Hrolf The Ganger

29 Dec 20 5.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why do you always attach negative motivations to people who you have decided to dislike? Any "short-sightedness" here emanates entirely from you.

The EU has no such ambition at all. It's ambition is security and prosperity for it's people. The over-riding principle is, which ought never be forgotten, subsidiarity.

Sometimes that means things being done centrally when it is better to do so. When they are better done locally then they will be. That may well mean that in the future some countries in the EU decide to combine their political systems. That will be up to each country to decide. It cannot be imposed by the EU. There was never the slightest chance of the UK wanting to combine with anyone else.

Your warped view of globalism is one I find all over right-wing sites based in the USA. Globalism was indeed inevitable but it does not and cannot replace the nation-state. How they control, and in particular tax, multinationals who operate in their area, is something we are now beginning to see being reviewed more aggressively. It is yet another example of where leaving the EU weakens our position.

I don't read 'right wing' sites Wisbech but well done for the dog whistle.

Our country has decided to take back control of law making and the ability to trade with whom we like.
The EU started as a trading block and has since began slowly voting itself more powers. Only the truly naive cannot see where that is heading.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (29 Dec 2020 6.00pm)

cryrst The garden of England 29 Dec 20 6.56pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust! Come off it; as a self employed cabbie you never declared all your take. None do! I reckon you had your lolly already at paye expense.

cryrst

The garden of England 29 Dec 20 6.56pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

I"m waiting another 2 days mate for all that lovely lolly coming our way, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

Come off it; as a self employed cabbie you never declared all your take. None do! I reckon you had your lolly already at paye expense.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.04pm
Originally posted by Spiderman May not be getting lolly but won’t be losing, until the sky falls in [Link] I"m glass half full spider, you"re glass half empty, i"m trusting boris on this one , he said more money in our pockets, not just not losing, have faith in the CONservative leader Spiderman, have faith man!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.04pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

May not be getting lolly but won’t be losing, until the sky falls in

[Link]

I"m glass half full spider, you"re glass half empty, i"m trusting boris on this one , he said more money in our pockets, not just not losing, have faith in the CONservative leader Spiderman, have faith man!

Eaglecoops CR3 29 Dec 20 9.10pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Lesson one on day one at eton , how to start the hamster wheel spinning and how to make sure the hamsters never get off-lend lend lend! What’s your plan/ideas for the property market?

Eaglecoops

CR3 29 Dec 20 9.10pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Lesson one on day one at eton , how to start the hamster wheel spinning and how to make sure the hamsters never get off-lend lend lend!

What’s your plan/ideas for the property market?

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.46pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops What’s your plan/ideas for the property market? Sell one, and keep one Eaglecoop, and live off the one i sell, just renting both at the moment, whats your take on it?

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.46pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

What’s your plan/ideas for the property market?

Sell one, and keep one Eaglecoop, and live off the one i sell, just renting both at the moment, whats your take on it?

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.51pm
Originally posted by cryrst Come off it; as a self employed cabbie you never declared all your take. None do! I reckon you had your lolly already at paye expense. Its on a need to know basis mate, suffice to say, i have paid my fair share, believe me, and i am looking forward to saturday, we all should be, i don"t usually believe a word the CONServatives ever spout, but on this one i"m trusting boris, we are all going to be holidaying more, eating more and better, and drinking as much as we can cram in after new years eve, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 29 Dec 20 9.51pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Come off it; as a self employed cabbie you never declared all your take. None do! I reckon you had your lolly already at paye expense.

Its on a need to know basis mate, suffice to say, i have paid my fair share, believe me, and i am looking forward to saturday, we all should be, i don"t usually believe a word the CONServatives ever spout, but on this one i"m trusting boris, we are all going to be holidaying more, eating more and better, and drinking as much as we can cram in after new years eve, in boris we trust mate, in boris we trust!

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