A valid point. But 1939 happened. As did 1914. And before that 1871. The Death Camps were real. The election of Hitler was real.

Of course we should not get bogged down in history but let us not forget it either. Germany remains the most powerful economic force in Europe. It controls the currency, and therefore the economic well-being, of hundreds of millions of others and it does not always act in the best interest of those people.

I genuinely question the wisdom of centring so much power in the hands of a nation that has done more to destabilise the rest of Europe than any other over the course of the last 150 years and has slaughtered millions just for the accident of birth.

I am sure the Germans of 1914 and 1939 were as cultured and polite around a dinner table as anybody else. Probably more so in many ways. I don't consider myself as 'anti' German and have always enjoyed my visits there along with numbering a few of them amongst my friends. But collectively, I am wary. Always willing to put my hands up.

History, geography and to a certain extent, linguists, are all reasons for keeping a wary eye on the Germans and Germany. Now people may mock me for the last part and ask how I can have a prejudice against a language but I am convinced that it plays far more of a part in defining how people act collectively. The notion of a 'final solution' has a certain logic only in a language like German. No nuance, just what you see is what you get.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

If the Scots and NI think they will be better off without us, fine. They won’t be in the EU and they won’t be in the UK, good luck with that! Oh and of course, they won’t be wanting any free handouts from us dastardly English will they! Do the Scots now get more per head from Central Government than anyone else? Still they will have Krankie at the helm, what could possibly go wrong.
Presumably if we are seen as “ plague island” those EU nationals rushing here over the last few days, to get their entitlement must have made a very grave error

Apologies,

Freedom and independence is not just a financial equation neither is the european union.

Who, in their right mind, would wish to be ruled by a self-serving clique of foreign old etonians with their derisory claims of democracy.

The EU fan suddenly has an issue with foreign genes.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Na, more likely to have Gary Lineker's fish and chips video playing on repeat.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Dec 2020 11.04am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Cheers my man.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Whether there was ever a legal basis for trying Joyce in the UK is now rather a moot point. He ended up a casualty of history by being on the losing side.

The fact remains that his political views were very much more akin to those held by Trump and the right in the USA and indeed of Powell and those who admire him here. Whilst Powell himself wasn't a fascist his "Rivers of Blood" speech was the precursor to the rise of neo-fascist movements like the National Front and all its subsequent iterations. Powell therefore has a lot to answer for.

Those who fought for us in WW2 were indeed patriots. They included my father. They were politically diverse as post-war events comprehensively demonstrated. My father supported that first Labour government. He and I talked extensively towards the end of his life about many things, including family and politics. He was extremely proud of me, both my achievements and my political views and grateful for the love and care I gave to him. Not a whiff of any embarrassment there. He had witnessed war at it's rawest and knew what needed to be done to avoid it happening again. He supported the EEC as it was then.

Some who haven't witnessed anything just pontificate. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

The self-righteous suggestions that some on the right make that only they are patriots is as insulting as it is wrong.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You will still be here in 10 years time B, still leaving and remaining.

I would agree that Joyce should have undergone a prison sentence. However, I have little doubt that he would have hung plenty in a post war fascist Britain.

Your dim insult to people on the right regarding who they would support in WW2 is entirely predictable.

The suggestion disgusts me and you are an idiot in making it.

I regard Powell as a hero and his words turned out truthful....you can think of him as you like. If Powell had supported the NF then he would have joined it.

I find your recent appreciation of your parents fishy, considering the embarrassing scorn and criticism you gave them in past Hol posts....calling them racists for example. Indeed, how you refer to them now is completely different and I have little doubt it is due to the criticism you received for it.

Frankly I don't believe a slimy word you say about anything.....though I tip my hat to your parents who were part of that great generation.

It's certainly true that not all patriots were right wing. As it is that left and right were completely different back then.....Mosley, for example was a socialist and in the Labour party and fascists back then did not regard themselves as right wing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Dec 2020 12.00pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)