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"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Only if he can ostracize momentum. Get his core centre left base back on side. Far left will drag him in the same direction as corbyn went. Down.
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Originally posted by cryrst
Only if he can ostracize momentum. Get his core centre left base back on side. Far left will drag him in the same direction as corbyn went. Down. Or mobilise it with a more realistic vision. Personally I think you are probably correct, not many of them would wish to forego their principles by doing anything with the slightest chance of success.
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Or mobilise it with a more realistic vision. Personally I think you are probably correct, not many of them would wish to forego their principles by doing anything with the slightest chance of success. In a way principles is what it's all about but only if a majority have the same ones where politics are involved.
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| Tom-the-eagle |
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Originally posted by DanH
Today’s PMQs showing that Boris is really going to struggle up against Keir in this format. Being up against a QC who can forensically take him apart each week means he won’t be able to get away with his usual bluster. That’s one take on it. It’s not particularly mine. I like Starmer though and think he comes across 100 times better than Corbyn, but then that’s not difficult.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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| croydon proud |
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Originally posted by DanH
Today’s PMQs showing that Boris is really going to struggle up against Keir in this format. Being up against a QC who can forensically take him apart each week means he won’t be able to get away with his usual bluster. Yeah, i agree, Boris is a likeable chap but is no match for Starmer, loved it when Bojo was flouncing about the figures Starmer was quoting, only for Starmer to hold up a piece of paper and say, they"re from your chart last night, Bojo had nowhere to hide!
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
That’s one take on it. It’s not particularly mine. I like Starmer though and think he comes across 100 times better than Corbyn, but then that’s not difficult. What was your take then Tom? From my perspective BoJo get totally kebabbed by Starmer.
Vive le Roy! |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
That’s one take on it. It’s not particularly mine. I like Starmer though and think he comes across 100 times better than Corbyn, but then that’s not difficult. Boris was essentially cross examined. A key cross examining technique is to only ask questions that you already know the answer to. This allows the person being questioned to try and talk their way around it before you can then prove that they are either lying, telling half truths, trying to avoid answering the actual question or obfuscating before giving the answer anyway. It’s extremely effective - you get the answer to the question as well as showing the other person up as not being honest. Not that anyone has ever seemed to care about BJ not being honest in the past though...
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Originally posted by Matov
PMQ's are up there with Question Time in terms of being meaningless frivolity. A version of boxing for nerds with each side trying to claim victories that mean nothing in the wider electoral context where it truly matters. How or what Starmer is and represents will not be apparent until at least the Labour conference and maybe even beyond. I would guess that this current Covid-19 crisis offers him both a blessing and a curse. And so far no polling shows any kind of significant bounce. To be fair to him, he is showing at least some political nous in that there are no points to be scored, as things stand, for constant slagging off. The public mood is more about national unity rather than the usual slings and arrows. Many of the Corbynites seem to struggle with that but such is life. However, as it becomes more and more apparent what a complete stab in the back the entire Peoples Vote campaign was given that it condemned Labour, and therefore Corbyn, to defeat in December 2019 then those little Corbies aint going to just sit back. We do not live in normal times. And until Starmer has been through a year of the usual s***, he cannot be judged. One of the best posts I’ve seen for a long time.
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
Starmer's shadow Health secretary is good, Jon Ashworth, but he had his 'health and social care' shadow on C4 last night , Liz Kendall - I thought it wud be revealing that someone given that responsibility at this time must be someone Starmer either rates really highly or trusts completely - she was very disappointing though, just parroting the party line and answering specific questions with meaningless generalizations - disappointing, thought she might be one of those engaging bright sparks, she was more like a New Labour robot - all compliance and f*ck all else, I suppose you need a few of those but she was clearly under orders and it showed, too much of that cud well turn voters off - too much control and propaganda, other posters pointed out some bizarre looking Starmer appointments, though I thought those posters were too selective with their evidence, this is the first thing I'd call a negative re Starmer's leadership. It’s incredibly subjective who is good or bad. As per your post, this seems mainly judges on how well someone comes across, rather than an objective analysis of outputs. Personally, I don’t think it really matters who is in the shadow cabinet (or the cabinet for that matter - chancellor excepted). If it really made a difference they wouldn’t keep reshuffling them into totally different roles every couple of years.
Vive le Roy! |
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Originally posted by Matov
Also, to be fair to Labour, there are simply very few political points worth scoring at the moment. The national mood is, at this moment in time at least, seemingly all about a sense of pulling together rather than the usual fisticuffs of political brawling. Now of course once it all blows over and the serious questions can not only be asked but also qualified answers given, then it will be a different kettle of fish but for the time being, Starmer is probably getting far more right than wrong. And let us not forget that as matters stand Johnson is probably the most secure politicians in the Western World. Huge majority, no internal opposition worthy of being labelled as such and with no risk of any kind of election for well in excess of 4 and half years. In short, he can do whatever he wants. Starmer needs to pick his battles and timing is crucial. Has to play the long, long game here with his biggest issue in the next 12-18 months being those within his own party. Johnson can simply ignore him but those behind him will be looking to wield a variety of knives to stab him with. And it is going to get vicious on that front. Your political posts are always a good read Matov. Nothing else to add. Stand down etc.
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Originally posted by Matov
Also, to be fair to Labour, there are simply very few political points worth scoring at the moment. The national mood is, at this moment in time at least, seemingly all about a sense of pulling together rather than the usual fisticuffs of political brawling. Now of course once it all blows over and the serious questions can not only be asked but also qualified answers given, then it will be a different kettle of fish but for the time being, Starmer is probably getting far more right than wrong. And let us not forget that as matters stand Johnson is probably the most secure politicians in the Western World. Huge majority, no internal opposition worthy of being labelled as such and with no risk of any kind of election for well in excess of 4 and half years. In short, he can do whatever he wants. Starmer needs to pick his battles and timing is crucial. Has to play the long, long game here with his biggest issue in the next 12-18 months being those within his own party. Johnson can simply ignore him but those behind him will be looking to wield a variety of knives to stab him with. And it is going to get vicious on that front. Momentum have to be unliberated for him to succeed.
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Originally posted by DanH
Your political posts are always a good read Matov. Nothing else to add. Stand down etc. a good read but I think he's overrated Johnson's security and underrated Starmer's problems - huge majority and they all know he's a good thing to duff up Boris.
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Originally posted by the.universal
It’s incredibly subjective who is good or bad. As per your post, this seems mainly judges on how well someone comes across, rather than an objective analysis of outputs. Personally, I don’t think it really matters who is in the shadow cabinet (or the cabinet for that matter - chancellor excepted). If it really made a difference they wouldn’t keep reshuffling them into totally different roles every couple of years. if you'd seen the interview you might be as subjective as me, I was speaking more in terms of up and comers and future leaders - like Lawson, Lamont, Mellor and Major all started off as chief secretary to the treasury - certain appointments can be revealing, with the care home crisis I was interested to see who he chose to speak for the issue, the shadow health sec Ashworth is the one caught on the phone saying Corbyn was a disaster pre the election, he has to peddle the party bullsh*t but says pertinent intellligent things every time I see him, the other was just talking off a script, Starmer's obviously, and it wasn't very convincing nor the first time, so I hope as a Labour voter that I'm wrong and it's not a revealing appointment.
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
a good read but I think he's overrated Johnson's security and underrated Starmer's problems - huge majority and they all know he's a good thing to duff up Boris.
He took decisive action against the Tory Rebels who tried to scupper Brexit. No pissing about, bang. All gone. And managed to lead his party to an incredible victory. 80 seat majority with new MP's in seats that even 5 years ago would have never been considered as Tory targets. A lot of people within the Conservative Party owe a hell of a lot to him now. On his own benches, where is the opposition to him? The big beasts who could harm him? His position is unassailable as matters stand and his polling is incredible. He can propose any legislation he wants and it sails through. Simple maths tells you that. Of course nothing is concrete and a week is a long time in politics as they say but, and I am no Johnson fan, the man is perhaps the strongest placed leader since say Blair. And even then, there are no rival camps. Johnson does not have a Gordon Brown breathing down his neck. As Starmer, I am not underrating his problems. He has all sorts of s*** coming his way from his own side in the next 18 months and that is going to get f***ing messy. Everything is currently on hold due to Covid but the Corbynites are not going away. And to be honest, Starmer needs the likes of Monumentum pissing out of the tent rather than in. They put a lot of bodies on the streets in elections and are an actual asset in many, many ways. Their efforts were instrumental in 2017 and to be fair, they were once again a leading force in 2019. Of course that went tits up for Labour but that was primarily due to the second referendum insanity. And the s*** around that is unreal. Bored people enough already about what happened but it was incredible that the likes of Starmer pushed for a policy that guaranteed Labour could not win an election. You have to ask why. Edited by Matov (07 May 2020 7.41pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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I’ve said before I think Matov could write this stuff for money. Could probably adjust styles for the audience/readership.
COYP |
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