He said

'Kids of below above average intelligence are being coached to pass the eleven +. This stops poorer socio-economic background kids of above intelligence getting in'.

I asked for evidence and that was when Nick provided the article on Bucks - which can't be representative if it's the second most prosperous county in the country.

You'll have to ask Nick as it's his argument, not mine. So for absolute clarity - Nick made a statement - I asked for some evidence and he provided the article on Bucks as an example. Socio-economic deprivation and fsm's as evidenced by a report in the paper on Bucks.

A main cause of this significant under-representation of disadvantaged pupils in grammar schools is that, by the time the ‘11 Plus’ entry exam (or equivalent) is taken, 60 per cent of the disadvantaged attainment gap – equivalent to 10 months of learning by this stage – has emerged.

If true, the problem isn't grammar schools

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (12 Oct 2016 12.54pm)

It means that grammar schools aren't the solution to the problem.

Or certainly not unless they can figure out a way of adjusting for expected shortfalls in attainment by the 11+

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

I think I demonstrate the complete opposite.

I was born in one of the largest council housing estates in South London to a father who was a milkman and a mother who worked in a factory... I was one of five kids. We were well down the lower socio-economic scale... or "poor" as us simple folk say!

I failed my 11+ and went to a secondary modern school and yet I got 2 good A levels, Pure Maths and Applied Maths, and was offered 2 places at University, London and Essex.

I chose to work rather than study further at 18 and here I am aged 62 owning a 5 bed house in a nice suburb of Bristol, have pension funds, ISA's, stocks and shares and other possessions approaching £1M such that my future financial prospects are pretty assured.

I have not suffered due to the Grammar School system that was in operation in Carshalton/Sutton in the 60's/70's so why would I fear it now?

Edited by Hoof Hearted (14 Oct 2016 9.10am)

Good for you - interesting that your school did 'A' levels in your area, in mine sec mods only went up to 5th form and were doing CSE's. So we had kids coming into our lower 6th to do either 'O' or 'A' or a combination of both.

All very good and well done. But that's just showing what you've done rather than showing empathy for those worse off. Your attitude seems to be one of 'tough titty, I managed it.'

who asked you?

Your attitude is the problem on here not mine.

If I say something you challenge it and I prove you wrong (again and again) you don't like it and respond with even more bollocks than before.

If you asked anyone around the country to react to what I've demonstrated to you most would respond favourably but not you of course you have to imagine that the world is against you and it is a struggle to keep going.

Contrary to your beliefs, it is a struggle for all of us and we adapt and survive.... even prosper by utilising our talents rather than moaning about how hard it is and protesting and striking and blogging and tweeting pathetic lefty mantras "What do we want X, when do we want X now" Where X represents a whole host of stuff that you feel you have a right to.

Take the Railway Unions protesting/striking again this week about Southern Rail Guard jobs. Most of them must use the underground themselves to travel, where the tube driver is responsible for pressing a button to close the doors and has done since the 1960's or before. Yet they try to make a case for Southern Rail to keep a Guard to oversee the safety of the doors closing? I've never seen a problem on the underground with doors closing even on the busiest stations.

What a crock of sh1t - Southern Rail have even promised to keep them employed on the same wages performing other tasks on the train too. Meanwhile thousands of commuters cannot get to work.

Left to the unions, British Rail would still be running steam trains and employing "wheeltappers".

Poor old Gusset and his comrades - luddite whingers with no sense of the damage they cause with their unwarranted civil unrest.

Chris123 - thanks for your support, but Gusset always makes it personal.

Purley Grammar, 1967 - 1974.