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Rugby world cup 2015

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 28 Sep 15 3.28pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote sydtheeagle at 28 Sep 2015 2.55pm

Quote The Sash at 28 Sep 2015 2.07pm

I just think England need a good kick up the arse and someone who can bring that extra edge.

The real knock on Lancaster is that we have the players but not the team. He has the raw material to certainly deliver a semi-final, maybe a final and, on a good day, winning the Cup. Only the ABs are demonstrably better and in a one-off game, anything can happen. But he's done a poor job, since initially sorting out the mess he inherited (and we all agree he did that very well), of exploiting the resources at his disposal.

As last week proved, there's no real tactical plan, there's no adherence to building in a clear direction, a commitment to players based on preference rather than ability and so on. It's all come to reek of the usual English sporting myopia and mediocrity. If we learned anything from 2003, surely it was have a plan two years before the RWC, prepare thoroughly to execute it and don't change it. At this level, Bomber is starting to resemble a rabbit caught in the headlights. And even though I don't want SCW back, why are the RFU not at least using him in an advisory role? He does know what it takes.

As far as Robs***e goes, saying he and not Bomber is responsible for the Wales loss is laughable. Who picked him, after all? The captain is the coaches voice on the pitch. For a start, Robs***e shouldn't be in the side and he's only there because of Bomber's absolute intransigence, blind loyalty and refusal to pick his best available openside (Fatty) because he plays in France. Second, Saturday was the THIRD (count 'em) time Robs***e made that call and the third time it's failed (Hint to Robs***e: it's not a very good call). So surely the coach should have nipped that idiocy in the bud long before the game and told him "never do that again on my watch." And thirdly, his unnecessary substitutions and not the penalty call cost us the game anyway. As to how Wigglesworth even got into the squad we can only wonder.

This week's selection against Australia will speak volumes. Bomber is damned if does and damned if he doesn't. If he reverts to Ford, he looks clueless. If he sticks to Farrell, he looks obstinate. If he picks Robs***e he looks desperate. If he doesn't pick him, he looks disloyal. I'm hearing a lot of rumours that there are divisions in the camp with the pack not happy with Wiggy (they look amazingly under-prepared for a scrum at World Cup time) and quite what Faz Senior is doing there I have no idea. He wasn't even a good Union player. Is the committee still just trying to get a return on its original investment in him? And why does he seemingly have so much influence?

The biggest thing we have going for us on Saturday is Poite. In recent years the Australian scrum has had major problems when he's been teacher. That said, if Marler spends another match boring in every time there's a set-piece, sooner or later someone is going to start pinging it. I can't believe he's got away with what he's been doing so far.

BTW Dylan played for us yesterday in the "friendly" at Sarries. Time for one of the squad to get injured I think.


Cant disagree with any of that.

Bang on about 2003 - there was almost an inevitability about England winning that - from two years out it was a steady build and progression and an obvious brand identity embedded into the side by SCW all aimed at the WC with the 6N and Autumn internationals as a testing ground, no real deviation from plan but a bedding in of the entire squad to an ethos and way of playing - not overly pretty but every player knew the game plan and their role in it by the time the WC rolled around. They didn't flap or panic when it wasn't quite going their way, they had faith and belief in what they were doing and it showed.

I am still in slight disbelief at the on pitch decision to go for the corner on Saturday - not so much the decision but the subsequent throw to the front - school kids wouldn't and shouldn't do that let alone seasoned international players and coaches.

The problem with changing personnel now is he has the wrong personnel backing up, especially in the back line...want creativity rather than defence in the midfield ?? Luther Burrell is sitting in Northampton with his feet up in his fluffy slippers. Want real aggression, drive and go forward - Manu is wearing his sackcloth around the streets of Leicester for his off field indiscretions...something Lancaster didn't seem to 'care' about with Danny Care..

Not sure where Lancaster can go for game changers to be honest....Joe Launchbury in for Parling would be a start

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 3.36pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Quote The Sash at 28 Sep 2015 3.28pm

They didn't flap or panic when it wasn't quite going their way, they had faith and belief in what they were doing and it showed.

Luther Burrell is sitting in Northampton with his feet up in his fluffy slippers.

Two things:

1. Remember the key moment in 2003 (Jonny's RWC-winning drop goal)? The lineout that set it up was thrown to the back. So much for going to 2 at the key moment because it's "safer." A team confident in its ability, with a plan, properly coached and that knew what it was doing sticking to a pre-conceived strategy. What do England do on the training ground if not cover eventualities like this? Or do they make the wrong decisions there, too?

2. Actually, lol, Luther scored two tries for us at Allianz Park yesterday. Rather underlining our point! Out of the squad, bang in form.

Edited by sydtheeagle (28 Sep 2015 3.36pm)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 28 Sep 15 3.44pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote sydtheeagle at 28 Sep 2015 3.36pm

Quote The Sash at 28 Sep 2015 3.28pm

They didn't flap or panic when it wasn't quite going their way, they had faith and belief in what they were doing and it showed.

Luther Burrell is sitting in Northampton with his feet up in his fluffy slippers.

Two things:

1. Remember the key moment in 2003 (Jonny's RWC-winning drop goal)? The lineout that set it up was thrown to the back. So much for going to 2 at the key moment because it's "safer." A team confident in its ability, with a plan, properly coached and that knew what it was doing sticking to a pre-conceived strategy. What do England do on the training ground if not cover eventualities like this? Or do they make the wrong decisions there, too?

2. Actually, lol, Luther scored two tries for us at Allianz Park yesterday. Rather underlining our point! Out of the squad, bang in form.

Edited by sydtheeagle (28 Sep 2015 3.36pm)


Another point is probably around the character and characters in that squad and perhaps the lack of them in this ??

Leaders all over the pitch in 2003 let alone the captain - this one ????

I don't dislike Robshaw - he's a trier and gives everything but he's not even a certain starter for me - bench player. He's asked to play in a position that isn't really his specialty because of the coaches intransigent selection policy. Crazy our best player in that position who plays a higher standard of Rugby than those in the squad week in week out wont get in because he's 22 miles over the water....in France and other countries the flankers are more often than not trained to be interchangeable - Serge Betsen was a great example of someone who could switch between the two, open and blind seamlessly - Robshaw sadly cant and neither seemingly can anyone else.

The beauty of having players that are adaptable at 6 and 7 is that your blindside ends up hitting the 10 like the open does the scrum half - puts no end of pressure on any scrums you lose (which given the farce that the put in has become is pretty much all of those that aren't yours)


Edited by The Sash (28 Sep 2015 3.51pm)

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 3.55pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Quote The Sash at 28 Sep 2015 3.44pm

Another point is probably around the character and characters in that squad and perhaps the lack of them in this ??

Leaders all over the pitch in 2003 let alone the captain - this one ????

Edited by The Sash (28 Sep 2015 3.50pm)


Of the 22 that started the 2003 RWC Final 15 either had captained or went on to captain England. In short, SCW selected leaders everywhere. Two things you hear often are that 1. He has often said that the team led itself. And 2. He has also said that if the team disagreed with something the coaches were doing, they would push back. Today, we have coaches who are poor strategists and players who are robots, simply doing what they are told. It's not a good combination. When you look at the personalities of the present England squad vs. 2003, you can see the problem.

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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Stuk Flag Top half 28 Sep 15 4.26pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

What an absolute f*** up of a second half that was.

 


Optimistic as ever

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 4.36pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Quote Stuk at 28 Sep 2015 4.26pm

What an absolutely predictable f*** up of a last 20 minutes that was.

Corrected

Edited by sydtheeagle (28 Sep 2015 4.37pm)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 4.43pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Eater's just been called up to replace Billy V. To be honest, while it's a nonsensical choice in that it undermines Bomber's own judgment of the last four years in a way I think it's a good move because it adds a sorely lacking experienced leader to the squad. Whatever else, that will be welcome. Eater in the last 20 minutes on Saturday would have brought something to the team that might have a difference when the options were being discussed, particularly since he's a club team mate of Robs***e (and, indeed, has been his club captain.)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 28 Sep 15 4.50pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

James Hook & Gareth Anscombe have been called up for Wales. I was starting to think that Hook was only marginally ahead of me in the pecking order.

Another tough game against Fiji and Henson will get the call

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 6.57pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Very good analysis of Saturday by no less than Graham Henry: [Link]

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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puliscap Flag croydon 28 Sep 15 7.15pm Send a Private Message to puliscap Add puliscap as a friend

Quote sydtheeagle at 28 Sep 2015 6.57pm

Very good analysis of Saturday by no less than Graham Henry: [Link]


Graham Henry and SCW both flopped at their first attempt at winning the World Cup, but learnt by their mistakes and went on to win it 4 years later.
They might be wise old sages in the media now, but they experienced failure and learnt.
No point bombing out Bomber and starting again, give him time.

 

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sydtheeagle Flag England 28 Sep 15 7.55pm Send a Private Message to sydtheeagle Add sydtheeagle as a friend

Quote puliscap at 28 Sep 2015 7.15pm

Quote sydtheeagle at 28 Sep 2015 6.57pm

Graham Henry and SCW both flopped at their first attempt at winning the World Cup, but learnt by their mistakes and went on to win it 4 years later.
They might be wise old sages in the media now, but they experienced failure and learnt.
No point bombing out Bomber and starting again, give him time.

Up to a point, yes. But neither SCW or GH were burdened by blind loyalty or a lack of vision. Their early mistakes were clear, but they were "progressive" mistakes. Both trusted their own judgment even when things went wrong, a quality Lancaster clearly lacks. Lastly, Woodward played international rugby and Henry came to the ABs job with vast international coaching experience. Bomber had neither before he took the job, perhaps one reason why he doesn't trust his own judgment and is constantly deferring to the likes of Faz. Don't get me wrong, he was the right coach at the right time four years ago and he did a fine job of pulling us back together. But I see nothing to convince me he's the right man for the next stage of the job. Look at it this way: explain to me what is Lancaster's tactical vision? We have no idea. Nor, Saturday showed, has he. That is a question we never needed to ask of SCW. Even if we disagreed with his selections, we knew what he was trying to do. A balanced midfield, a highly mobile back row, etc.

Edited by sydtheeagle (28 Sep 2015 7.57pm)

Edited by sydtheeagle (28 Sep 2015 7.57pm)

 


Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God.

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The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 28 Sep 15 8.34pm Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 28 Sep 2015 4.50pm

James Hook & Gareth Anscombe have been called up for Wales. I was starting to think that Hook was only marginally ahead of me in the pecking order.

Another tough game against Fiji and Henson will get the call

The way things are going Phil Bennett must fancy his chances


 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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