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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Feb 16 2.18pm
[Link] A year old, but...

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Feb 16 2.18pm

[Link]

A year old, but...

npn Crowborough 25 Feb 16 3.01pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] A year old, but... Not sure what you're hoping that article says? Ireland, Germany, and France have more Brits on benefits than UK has of their people, but that's about it. Going by that chart and figures, the totals are (rather than just cherry-picking 3 nations from the list): EU people on benefits in UK: 64,830 UK people on benefits in EU: 29,095 So it would seem to be clear that 'we' are paying more than double the benefits 'we' are receiving

npn

Crowborough 25 Feb 16 3.01pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]

A year old, but...

Not sure what you're hoping that article says?

Ireland, Germany, and France have more Brits on benefits than UK has of their people, but that's about it.

Going by that chart and figures, the totals are (rather than just cherry-picking 3 nations from the list):
EU people on benefits in UK: 64,830
UK people on benefits in EU: 29,095

So it would seem to be clear that 'we' are paying more than double the benefits 'we' are receiving

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 3.39pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 I'm still undecided but took the quiz and ended up as voting to stay in. Apparently 'You're no fan of Brussels or bureacracy, but a nagging feeling at the back of your mind says we need to be inside the tent. The English Channel is only 21 miles wide. If we've got Europe on our doorstep, shouldn't we be pragmatic and stay part of the club? VOTE IN JUNE: REMAIN (WITH LITTLE JOY)' [Link] Looks like I WILL be voting to come out with the results I got from the same quiz !! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 3.39pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

I'm still undecided but took the quiz and ended up as voting to stay in. Apparently 'You're no fan of Brussels or bureacracy, but a nagging feeling at the back of your mind says we need to be inside the tent. The English Channel is only 21 miles wide. If we've got Europe on our doorstep, shouldn't we be pragmatic and stay part of the club?
VOTE IN JUNE: REMAIN (WITH LITTLE JOY)'

[Link]

Looks like I WILL be voting to come out with the results I got from the same quiz !!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 3.44pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Not histrionic in the slightest. If you are trying to skewer those in support of leaving for "what the future will hold", expect it right back at you. You will have to work within the confines of a declining outmoded trade bloc, however. "..the same here in our Parliament" -- so that's a candid confession that where a huge number of laws passed and handed down to us is not "ours". Good. We have 8.5% influence in the EUparl, which counts for FA given QVM. 300 EU rulings per day generated by an unelected commission and rubber-stamped by the EUparl, each of those 300 taking more power to Brussels. "Economic clout...," I demonstrated this not to be the case. You clearly didn't look at the data. No matter. Horse, water. "peace...," Yeah, who needed NATO when we have Van Rompuy. Give me a break - tell me you don't believe that, really?? "easy travel...," I've traveled extensively both in Europe and the rest of the world (you know, that place with 160+ countries outside the EU?). You're telling me the EU facilitated my visa-on-arrival in Australia? In Cambodia? Are those cheap flights all down to the EU too, and nothing to do with supply, demand and the rise of cheap low-cost carriers(despite EUcom efforts with the Emissions Trading Scheme)? Can the Swiss & Norwegians get NHS cover here? In other words, rubbish. "cleaner rivers and seas, etc...." The seas are certainly cleaner, as our fish-stocks (60% of "EU" waters) have been decimated under the Common Fisheries Policy, and our fishing industry has declined massively. And as for rivers, I prefer them dredged (as they have been done in antiquity) and not flooding over the Somerset Levels & Cockermouth. We have the EU “Saving wetland habitats: more money for key sites” directive to thank for that. Finally, as for "solving our social ills" - as per the majority of the other 160+ countries in the world, I would like our ELECTORATE to vote in the government to which we hold accountable to solve these "ills". If they don't do a good job, we boot them out and elect another. Why is this concept so hard for you people to understand? AT last someone who does think with their brain rather than their fears. You have hit it bang on the head my friend well done. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 3.44pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Not histrionic in the slightest. If you are trying to skewer those in support of leaving for "what the future will hold", expect it right back at you. You will have to work within the confines of a declining outmoded trade bloc, however.

"..the same here in our Parliament" -- so that's a candid confession that where a huge number of laws passed and handed down to us is not "ours". Good. We have 8.5% influence in the EUparl, which counts for FA given QVM. 300 EU rulings per day generated by an unelected commission and rubber-stamped by the EUparl, each of those 300 taking more power to Brussels.

"Economic clout...,"
I demonstrated this not to be the case. You clearly didn't look at the data. No matter. Horse, water.

"peace...,"
Yeah, who needed NATO when we have Van Rompuy. Give me a break - tell me you don't believe that, really??

"easy travel...,"
I've traveled extensively both in Europe and the rest of the world (you know, that place with 160+ countries outside the EU?). You're telling me the EU facilitated my visa-on-arrival in Australia? In Cambodia? Are those cheap flights all down to the EU too, and nothing to do with supply, demand and the rise of cheap low-cost carriers(despite EUcom efforts with the Emissions Trading Scheme)? Can the Swiss & Norwegians get NHS cover here? In other words, rubbish.

"cleaner rivers and seas, etc...." The seas are certainly cleaner, as our fish-stocks (60% of "EU" waters) have been decimated under the Common Fisheries Policy, and our fishing industry has declined massively. And as for rivers, I prefer them dredged (as they have been done in antiquity) and not flooding over the Somerset Levels & Cockermouth. We have the EU “Saving wetland habitats: more money for key sites” directive to thank for that.

Finally, as for "solving our social ills" - as per the majority of the other 160+ countries in the world, I would like our ELECTORATE to vote in the government to which we hold accountable to solve these "ills". If they don't do a good job, we boot them out and elect another. Why is this concept so hard for you people to understand?

AT last someone who does think with their brain rather than their fears. You have hit it bang on the head my friend well done.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Hoof Hearted 25 Feb 16 4.07pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Nope. Wrong. The Swiss voted for immigration caps for the EU via a referendum (you know, that expression of democracy the EU so hates). This motion passed, and their federal council must now enact it. The EU got nasty after the vote and cherry-picked some things to cancel that they thought would add political pressure -- namely access to research funding (which the Swiss subsequently paid into) and the ERASMUS student exchange scheme (which the Swiss have joined under a different umbrella). Funny how they didn't do anything like cancel their vital trade routes through Switzerland, eh? As far as I know, the Swiss are still happily trading in the single market. So, a few lessons here: - Tiny Switzerland, whilst subject to arbitrary and punitive action from the EU, is still trading whilst on-course to cap the number of EU nationals entering their country - The EU is a bully, and will exert it's political might on sovereign countries to achieve it's aims (as Ukraine now well knows). Do we want to be in such a club? - We have a much larger economy and considerably more leverage to negotiate a deal with the EU. The EU cannot impose unfavorable terms (Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty & World Trade Organisation tariff rules) on what is ultimately a huge trade deficit anyway. -As aside, Swiss exports to China (because, you know, the poor, poor downtrodden Swiss have a free trade agreement with China, whilst we can't, as members of the EU) is due to overtake exports to Germany within a decade. I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave. Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense. Bravo Sir!

Hoof Hearted 25 Feb 16 4.07pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Nope. Wrong. The Swiss voted for immigration caps for the EU via a referendum (you know, that expression of democracy the EU so hates). This motion passed, and their federal council must now enact it.

The EU got nasty after the vote and cherry-picked some things to cancel that they thought would add political pressure -- namely access to research funding (which the Swiss subsequently paid into) and the ERASMUS student exchange scheme (which the Swiss have joined under a different umbrella). Funny how they didn't do anything like cancel their vital trade routes through Switzerland, eh?

As far as I know, the Swiss are still happily trading in the single market.

So, a few lessons here:

- Tiny Switzerland, whilst subject to arbitrary and punitive action from the EU, is still trading whilst on-course to cap the number of EU nationals entering their country
- The EU is a bully, and will exert it's political might on sovereign countries to achieve it's aims (as Ukraine now well knows). Do we want to be in such a club?
- We have a much larger economy and considerably more leverage to negotiate a deal with the EU. The EU cannot impose unfavorable terms (Article 8 of the Lisbon Treaty & World Trade Organisation tariff rules) on what is ultimately a huge trade deficit anyway.
-As aside, Swiss exports to China (because, you know, the poor, poor downtrodden Swiss have a free trade agreement with China, whilst we can't, as members of the EU) is due to overtake exports to Germany within a decade.

I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave.

Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense.

Bravo Sir!

johnno42000 25 Feb 16 4.16pm
Originally posted by susmik Looks like I WILL be voting to come out with the results I got from the same quiz !! I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe. I know I shouldn't think like this, as a very left leaning politics wise type person, but I am worried for my children and grandchildren. I just think too many people are coming into Europe too quickly. Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me. 'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

johnno42000

25 Feb 16 4.16pm

Originally posted by susmik

Looks like I WILL be voting to come out with the results I got from the same quiz !!

I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe.

I know I shouldn't think like this, as a very left leaning politics wise type person, but I am worried for my children and grandchildren. I just think too many people are coming into Europe too quickly.

Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me.

'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

davenotamonkey 25 Feb 16 4.25pm
Originally posted by npn Not sure what you're hoping that article says? Ireland, Germany, and France have more Brits on benefits than UK has of their people, but that's about it. Going by that chart and figures, the totals are (rather than just cherry-picking 3 nations from the list): EU people on benefits in UK: 64,830 UK people on benefits in EU: 29,095 So it would seem to be clear that 'we' are paying more than double the benefits 'we' are receiving Actually, given our benefits system is so damn generous, it's not double, it's a lot more. The amount we pay out to those Polish in no way balances out if the same number of Brits were claiming in Poland. We paid out £5bn per year to 415,000 EU migrants (Open Europe study). It's better to arrive and declare self-employment than claim jobseekers - you can get housing credit (2xJSA) and tax credits (4xJSA) with EEA migrants much more likely to claim for these than UK citizens.

davenotamonkey

25 Feb 16 4.25pm

Originally posted by npn

Not sure what you're hoping that article says?

Ireland, Germany, and France have more Brits on benefits than UK has of their people, but that's about it.

Going by that chart and figures, the totals are (rather than just cherry-picking 3 nations from the list):
EU people on benefits in UK: 64,830
UK people on benefits in EU: 29,095

So it would seem to be clear that 'we' are paying more than double the benefits 'we' are receiving

Actually, given our benefits system is so damn generous, it's not double, it's a lot more. The amount we pay out to those Polish in no way balances out if the same number of Brits were claiming in Poland.

We paid out £5bn per year to 415,000 EU migrants (Open Europe study). It's better to arrive and declare self-employment than claim jobseekers - you can get housing credit (2xJSA) and tax credits (4xJSA) with EEA migrants much more likely to claim for these than UK citizens.

davenotamonkey 25 Feb 16 4.26pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave. Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense. Bravo Sir! My thanks to you - the doffing of hats in my general direction much appreciated... and to think I only used to be on here for the Palace! ;-) (just to clarify, I'm not JE, but I do also recall some of his posts on here)

davenotamonkey

25 Feb 16 4.26pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave.

Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense.

Bravo Sir!

My thanks to you - the doffing of hats in my general direction much appreciated... and to think I only used to be on here for the Palace! ;-)

(just to clarify, I'm not JE, but I do also recall some of his posts on here)

davenotamonkey 25 Feb 16 4.28pm
Originally posted by susmik AT last someone who does think with their brain rather than their fears. You have hit it bang on the head my friend well done. Thank you sir :-)

davenotamonkey

25 Feb 16 4.28pm

Originally posted by susmik

AT last someone who does think with their brain rather than their fears. You have hit it bang on the head my friend well done.

Thank you sir :-)

Stuk Top half 25 Feb 16 4.36pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe. I know I shouldn't think like this, as a very left leaning politics wise type person, but I am worried for my children and grandchildren. I just think too many people are coming into Europe too quickly. Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me. Why do you think the date has been set as the earliest possible? As 100,000 extra migrants have made it to the EU this year already, in winter, that figure will be far higher by June. Let alone over the entire calendar year. Optimistic as ever

Stuk

Top half 25 Feb 16 4.36pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe.

Why do you think the date has been set as the earliest possible?

As 100,000 extra migrants have made it to the EU this year already, in winter, that figure will be far higher by June. Let alone over the entire calendar year.

Optimistic as ever

Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Feb 16 5.35pm
Originally posted by Stuk Why do you think the date has been set as the earliest possible? As 100,000 extra migrants have made it to the EU this year already, in winter, that figure will be far higher by June. Let alone over the entire calendar year. David Cameron who promised net migration of 100,000 before 2010 election which he knew was impossible. David Cameron who claims he's negotiated a good deal to limit migration and yet it will do nothing to cap it and it's more than likely going to accelerate it for a while just in case there is a brake applied to benefits and then there is the living wage coming in. What a slippery snake. Doesn't intend to stand for election? Yeah we knew that Dave, but we also know you don't want the hassle and hard work for 2 years with the EU members if we vote out and the negotiations with countries outside the EU for the 55% and growing portion of exports. COYP

Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Feb 16 5.35pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Why do you think the date has been set as the earliest possible?

As 100,000 extra migrants have made it to the EU this year already, in winter, that figure will be far higher by June. Let alone over the entire calendar year.

David Cameron who promised net migration of 100,000 before 2010 election which he knew was impossible.

David Cameron who claims he's negotiated a good deal to limit migration and yet it will do nothing to cap it and it's more than likely going to accelerate it for a while just in case there is a brake applied to benefits and then there is the living wage coming in.

What a slippery snake. Doesn't intend to stand for election? Yeah we knew that Dave, but we also know you don't want the hassle and hard work for 2 years with the EU members if we vote out and the negotiations with countries outside the EU for the 55% and growing portion of exports.

COYP

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 8.39pm
Originally posted by davenotamonkey Thank you sir :-) Your welcome. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 25 Feb 16 8.39pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Thank you sir :-)

Your welcome.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Apollofuzz On the edge of reason 25 Feb 16 9.00pm
Originally posted by johnno42000 I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe. I know I shouldn't think like this, as a very left leaning politics wise type person, but I am worried for my children and grandchildren. I just think too many people are coming into Europe too quickly. Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me. Here is a BBC Article outlining the figures. Interesting reading. The levels do look unsustainable. I was surprised how low the asylum number was [Link] I ride a GS scooter with my hair cut neat I wear my war time coat in the wind and sleet.

Apollofuzz

On the edge of reason 25 Feb 16 9.00pm

Originally posted by johnno42000

Here is a BBC Article outlining the figures. Interesting reading. The levels do look unsustainable. I was surprised how low the asylum number was
[Link]

I ride a GS scooter with my hair cut neat
I wear my war time coat in the wind and sleet.

matt_himself Matataland 25 Feb 16 9.02pm
If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them? We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s* in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus. We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders. We despise the Germans, not only for their penchant for mass murder but also because of their love of 'skat', 'water sports' and similar practices which are the opposite of any true Englishman's sexual appetites. The Belgians are all sex cases. The Dutch are arrogant w*ers. The Greeks spunk money up the wall like there's no tomorrow. The Balkans hate us when we do and we don't try and sort out their murderous tendencies. The Irish hate us despite the overwhelming evidence that we civilised them. They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

matt_himself

Matataland 25 Feb 16 9.02pm

If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them?

We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s*** in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus.

We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders.

We despise the Germans, not only for their penchant for mass murder but also because of their love of 'skat', 'water sports' and similar practices which are the opposite of any true Englishman's sexual appetites.

The Belgians are all sex cases. The Dutch are arrogant w***ers. The Greeks spunk money up the wall like there's no tomorrow. The Balkans hate us when we do and we don't try and sort out their murderous tendencies. The Irish hate us despite the overwhelming evidence that we civilised them.

They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 25 Feb 16 9.11pm
Originally posted by matt_himself If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them? We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s* in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus. We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders. We despise the Germans, not only for their penchant for mass murder but also because of their love of 'skat', 'water sports' and similar practices which are the opposite of any true Englishman's sexual appetites. The Belgians are all sex cases. The Dutch are arrogant w*ers. The Greeks spunk money up the wall like there's no tomorrow. The Balkans hate us when we do and we don't try and sort out their murderous tendencies. The Irish hate us despite the overwhelming evidence that we civilised them. They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world? Don't forget the Irish!! They hate us with a passion, actually correction they like the Welsh & Scottish its just us English (Brits) they don't like. Its England they aim their bile at not Scotland or Wales.... Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 25 Feb 16 9.11pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them?

We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s*** in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus.

We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders.

They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world?

Don't forget the Irish!! They hate us with a passion, actually correction they like the Welsh & Scottish its just us English (Brits) they don't like. Its England they aim their bile at not Scotland or Wales....

Pro USA & Israel

Hrolf The Ganger 26 Feb 16 12.24am
The Remains taking a battering on Newsnight right now.

Hrolf The Ganger

26 Feb 16 12.24am

The Remains taking a battering on Newsnight right now.

davenotamonkey 26 Feb 16 9.16am
Originally posted by matt_himself If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them? We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s* in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus. We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders. We despise the Germans, not only for their penchant for mass murder but also because of their love of 'skat', 'water sports' and similar practices which are the opposite of any true Englishman's sexual appetites. The Belgians are all sex cases. The Dutch are arrogant w*ers. The Greeks spunk money up the wall like there's no tomorrow. The Balkans hate us when we do and we don't try and sort out their murderous tendencies. The Irish hate us despite the overwhelming evidence that we civilised them. They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world? Sorry - I just can't get on board with this. I love Europe (well, the predominantly western parts I've visited) - I love the culture, the languages, the history. I do also like to stereotype particular countries too, but it's only really in jest. The general principle of the EU, namely integration in all regards, attempts to standardise and homogenise everything to a uniform "grey", suppressing any colour and regionalisation. I hate it, I think it's cultural suicide, and would rather not live in it. Let's allow the Frenchman to "chat" in the "rue", and the Italians to screw us for Pizza. We should still trade with them, have good relations with them, and allow them to express their cultures how they please (we're not, after all, like the EU). We can always explore elsewhere in this progressively shrinking planet.

davenotamonkey

26 Feb 16 9.16am

Originally posted by matt_himself

If we are honest, we mostly despise the continentals, so why are so many people keen for continued interaction with them?

We have all been to Paris and been charged £20 for a bottle of water. We have all seen a Frenchman s*** in the street whilst trying to enjoy a romantic evening with the missus.

We have all been to Rome and been charged £50 for a big cheese on toast whilst our women are sexually assaulted by greasy, bandy legged, moped riders.

They hate us. With a passion. Why would we want to be a part of it and PAY for the privilege of being bummed by the biggest closed shop in the world?

Sorry - I just can't get on board with this.

I love Europe (well, the predominantly western parts I've visited) - I love the culture, the languages, the history. I do also like to stereotype particular countries too, but it's only really in jest.

The general principle of the EU, namely integration in all regards, attempts to standardise and homogenise everything to a uniform "grey", suppressing any colour and regionalisation. I hate it, I think it's cultural suicide, and would rather not live in it.

Let's allow the Frenchman to "chat" in the "rue", and the Italians to screw us for Pizza. We should still trade with them, have good relations with them, and allow them to express their cultures how they please (we're not, after all, like the EU). We can always explore elsewhere in this progressively shrinking planet.

davenotamonkey 26 Feb 16 9.26am
Originally posted by johnno42000 I think it got pretty close with mine but I am still very much undecided. I like the idea of being part of a bigger block of countries which makes trade easier, and therefore more profitable for the UK. Yet I really am worried about the large amounts of refugees coming into Europe. I know I shouldn't think like this, as a very left leaning politics wise type person, but I am worried for my children and grandchildren. I just think too many people are coming into Europe too quickly. Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me. I don't really know how old you are, but the UK has, since the late 1990s (put that on an EU-policy timeline) experienced an unprecedented level of immigration. Post war was a steady increase, declining in the 60s, and stabilising up to the 80s. It then blew up to a level never before experienced since records began. We've now found, in the past few months, that the government has been underestimating these recent figures quite considerably. As to your point about it being a success and a benefit. Success depends on how you measure it. That's up to you to decide. Benefit? Not financially, despite what you will be told by pro-EU fanatics (it's a fairly boring subject, but I can point you to some statistics).

davenotamonkey

26 Feb 16 9.26am

Originally posted by johnno42000

Immigration into the UK has happened gradually in my lifetime and I think generally it has been a success and has benefited the UK. I understand the reason why the present rush into Europe is happening and I really do sympathise but it does concern me.

I don't really know how old you are, but the UK has, since the late 1990s (put that on an EU-policy timeline) experienced an unprecedented level of immigration. Post war was a steady increase, declining in the 60s, and stabilising up to the 80s. It then blew up to a level never before experienced since records began. We've now found, in the past few months, that the government has been underestimating these recent figures quite considerably.

As to your point about it being a success and a benefit. Success depends on how you measure it. That's up to you to decide. Benefit? Not financially, despite what you will be told by pro-EU fanatics (it's a fairly boring subject, but I can point you to some statistics).

Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 26 Feb 16 9.38am
Originally posted by Jimenez Don't forget the Irish!! They hate us with a passion, actually correction they like the Welsh & Scottish its just us English (Brits) they don't like. Its England they aim their bile at not Scotland or Wales.... That is very true, I worked in Dublin for 4 months. There were plenty of times when being a Brit they would be unhelpful but when they realised I am Welsh their attitude would change immediately. Always been a mystery to me the dignified don't even enter in the game

Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 26 Feb 16 9.38am

Originally posted by Jimenez

That is very true, I worked in Dublin for 4 months. There were plenty of times when being a Brit they would be unhelpful but when they realised I am Welsh their attitude would change immediately. Always been a mystery to me

the dignified don't even enter in the game

JohnyBoy 26 Feb 16 10.02am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave. Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense. Bravo Sir! Isnt it strange Hoof that we should agree to differ again because i find Dave's approach to debating rather immature......and i can assure you Dave that the Swiss do NOT trade freely with the Eu and that every economist i know who covers Switzerland thinks that their recent referendum decision will weaken their negotiating power and lead to poorer economic performance in the future.

JohnyBoy

26 Feb 16 10.02am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I'm liking the cut of your jib Dave.

Your posting style reminds me of Johnny Eagles a bygone poster much admired by all on here for his concise no nonsense posting that made a lot of sense.

Bravo Sir!

Isnt it strange Hoof that we should agree to differ again because i find Dave's approach to debating rather immature......and i can assure you Dave that the Swiss do NOT trade freely with the Eu and that every economist i know who covers Switzerland thinks that their recent referendum decision will weaken their negotiating power and lead to poorer economic performance in the future.

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