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Sir Keir Starmer


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Midlands Eagle Flag 08 May 20 6.32am

Originally posted by Matov

a week is a long time in politics as they say but, and I am no Johnson fan, the man is perhaps the strongest placed leader since say Blair. And even then, there are no rival camps. Johnson does not have a Gordon Brown breathing down his neck.

As Starmer, I am not underrating his problems. He has all sorts of s*** coming his way from his own side in the next 18 months and that is going to get f***ing messy.

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections

 

serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 08 May 20 11.20am

In the midst of all the drama, one decision made by Starmer last week is, I think, incredibly significant.

He came out and renounced Labour's previous position on Kashmir, which was to condemn the Indian government's actions there.

Now it is clear he did so to appease Indian Labour voters, many of whom didn't vote for Corbyn specifically because of this reason.

This may seem incredibly trivial, but actually, it is a clear indication of his political instincts, and even as a sceptic of his, it surprised me.

Kashmir is one of the largest human rights issues in the world. People have been arrested without trial, communication has been blacked out, and the Indian military have been shown to be committing numerous atrocities throughout the region.

Now you could argue that it isn't Labour's position to take a stand on these things and winning power is more important than far off conflicts. But remember, Starmer was a human rights lawyer. He, more than most, will know what is happening in Kashmir, and his decision to ignore it must have been done in spite of his knowledge.

It raises the question: if the human rights lawyer is willing to overlook human rights abuses, what does he actually stand for? Until that is answered, no number of breezy dispatches of Johnson at PMQs is likely to win poeple over.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 08 May 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections
Adecent bloke who wanted to abandon the minimum wage so they could pay people less than £7,50 an hour? Great chap, just the kind we need in these challanging times!

 

the.universal 08 May 20 1.46pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Rishi Sunak has performed well in his public appearances although there haven't been many of them. Dominic Raab has also done well as Boris's understudy and seems to be a decent bloke but like Starmer he lacks the personal charisma that is needed to win elections

Do you think performing well in public appearances equates to good performance? I think the two are increasingly conflated, rightly or wrongly. Example being the Chief Medical Offer who would seem to be a good fit for the job, considering he’s a virologist. But he was mugged off for having a crap haircut and terrible presentation skills.

(He does need a better haircut, to be fair.)

 


Vive le Roy!

Midlands Eagle Flag 08 May 20 2.17pm

Originally posted by the.universal


Do you think performing well in public appearances equates to good performance?

If you are referring to the Chancellor he has come up with a package of financial measures that does it's best to keep as many people in a job as possible

Originally posted by the.universal


I think the two are increasingly conflated, rightly or wrongly. Example being the Chief Medical Offer who would seem to be a good fit for the job, considering he’s a virologist. But he was mugged off for having a crap haircut and terrible presentation skills.

(He does need a better haircut, to be fair.)

Of course there is no appealing to tw@ts who are increasingly noisy since broadband came in reach of everybody. I was referring people people whose IQs were a higher number than their waistbands

 

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 08 May 20 2.24pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Of course there is no appealing to tw@ts who are increasingly noisy since broadband came in reach of everybody. I was referring people people whose IQs were a higher number than their waistbands


That"s a lot of people people! A re you wearing your low waisters today?

 

ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 08 May 20 3.18pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

In the midst of all the drama, one decision made by Starmer last week is, I think, incredibly significant.

He came out and renounced Labour's previous position on Kashmir, which was to condemn the Indian government's actions there.

Now it is clear he did so to appease Indian Labour voters, many of whom didn't vote for Corbyn specifically because of this reason.

This may seem incredibly trivial, but actually, it is a clear indication of his political instincts, and even as a sceptic of his, it surprised me.

Kashmir is one of the largest human rights issues in the world. People have been arrested without trial, communication has been blacked out, and the Indian military have been shown to be committing numerous atrocities throughout the region.

Now you could argue that it isn't Labour's position to take a stand on these things and winning power is more important than far off conflicts. But remember, Starmer was a human rights lawyer. He, more than most, will know what is happening in Kashmir, and his decision to ignore it must have been done in spite of his knowledge.

It raises the question: if the human rights lawyer is willing to overlook human rights abuses, what does he actually stand for? Until that is answered, no number of breezy dispatches of Johnson at PMQs is likely to win poeple over.

excellent point in the main, Starmer is Blair mark 2, but I think that pragmatism is likely to appeal rather than deter, Johnson has charisma Starmer has gravitas, his picking on the peak in testing on the last day of the month is an example of his spot on strategy, why can't it be that way every day? you can accuse him of playing politics, and maybe he is, but that's irrelevant, it was a point that needed to be made so he made it and got maximum political capital out of it and was immune to the charge of disloyalty - Johnson must go into depression at the sight of Starmer, that's forgetting that Johnson isn't fully human of course.

 

Teddy Eagle Flag 08 May 20 3.29pm

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

excellent point in the main, Starmer is Blair mark 2, but I think that pragmatism is likely to appeal rather than deter, Johnson has charisma Starmer has gravitas, his picking on the peak in testing on the last day of the month is an example of his spot on strategy, why can't it be that way every day? you can accuse him of playing politics, and maybe he is, but that's irrelevant, it was a point that needed to be made so he made it and got maximum political capital out of it and was immune to the charge of disloyalty - Johnson must go into depression at the sight of Starmer, that's forgetting that Johnson isn't fully human of course.

My wife spoke to him yesterday as part of a couple of web chats he did in Scotland and was very impressed with him. He answered all the questions put to him, albeit they were previously submitted, and came across as engaging and committed.

 

silvertop Flag Portishead 09 May 20 6.46pm

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

excellent point in the main, Starmer is Blair mark 2, but I think that pragmatism is likely to appeal rather than deter, Johnson has charisma Starmer has gravitas, his picking on the peak in testing on the last day of the month is an example of his spot on strategy, why can't it be that way every day? you can accuse him of playing politics, and maybe he is, but that's irrelevant, it was a point that needed to be made so he made it and got maximum political capital out of it and was immune to the charge of disloyalty - Johnson must go into depression at the sight of Starmer, that's forgetting that Johnson isn't fully human of course.

There is surprisingly little the British government can do to influence indian policy on Kashmir save quiet back channel diplomacy. And absolutely nothing you can do in opposition.

You need to get in power if you want to change things. Something that numpty Corbyn never got. And there is always a degree of Faust in the route to the chair.

Realpolitik.

 

jeeagles Flag 11 May 20 6.23pm

Here's a fun fact of the day.

Since WWII three labour leaders have won general elections.

Attlee, Wilson, and Blair.

All 3 were of the moderate left.

All 3 studied at Oxford at some point with Attlee and Blair studying law going on to become barristers.

Starmer is Moderate left and a former barrister who also studied at Oxford.

Jeremy Corbyn dropped out of the North London Polytechnic as he didn't agree with the sylibus.

Really they represent the two seperate sides of the Labour party. The moderates, who work for social justice within the current social economic system. And the extremist, who just bitch and moan about life being unfair and craving a failed system of tryanny, corruption, and repression.

 

Matov Flag 11 May 20 6.56pm

Originally posted by jeeagles


Really they represent the two seperate sides of the Labour party. The moderates, who work for social justice within the current social economic system. And the extremist, who just bitch and moan about life being unfair and craving a failed system of tryanny, corruption, and repression.

Or the one side who are cosily part of the Establishment and continue to allow the usual types to get richer at the expense of everybody else.

On somebody who truly wanted to shake up Britain so that everybody else got a fair deal.

Look, I would never vote for Corbyn if my life depended on it but something pretty f***ed up is going on. Never bought much into this Deep State nonsense but something is nagging away at me now.

Maybe it is the lockdown getting to me but I am increasingly uncomfortable with what is going on at the moment.

Starmer engineered a situation in which Corbyn was guaranteed to lose the General Election. No ifs or buts. And now gets presented by the likes of the BBC as this sensible hand on the tiller.

Something stinks in British politics at the moment, it really does. Starmer is bought and paid for.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 11 May 20 7.40pm

Originally posted by Matov

Or the one side who are cosily part of the Establishment and continue to allow the usual types to get richer at the expense of everybody else.

On somebody who truly wanted to shake up Britain so that everybody else got a fair deal.

Look, I would never vote for Corbyn if my life depended on it but something pretty f***ed up is going on. Never bought much into this Deep State nonsense but something is nagging away at me now.

Maybe it is the lockdown getting to me but I am increasingly uncomfortable with what is going on at the moment.

Starmer engineered a situation in which Corbyn was guaranteed to lose the General Election. No ifs or buts. And now gets presented by the likes of the BBC as this sensible hand on the tiller.

Something stinks in British politics at the moment, it really does. Starmer is bought and paid for.


rubbish: Cameron was more bought and paid for than Starmer - this is bordering on paranoia, he's just smarter than you'd like him to be and Bojo is more stupid than you'd like him to be - get over it. Starmer may have calculated Corbyn as a no hoper and was waiting his moment, but this isn't back satbbing ambition, he knows he's competent and electable and Corbyn was neither. So the liberal elite have manufactured a scenario where Bojo gets called out for being cr*p? Do me a favour - how much would Rudi pay for that piece of polemic I'd like to know!

not rubbish: your analysis of labour's two wings was spot on - the ones who don't fit into that dichotomy tend to be the good 'uns, like the late John Smith, maybe Lisa Nandy or Andy Burnham would be examples now.

 

the.universal 11 May 20 8.40pm

Originally posted by Matov

Or the one side who are cosily part of the Establishment and continue to allow the usual types to get richer at the expense of everybody else.

On somebody who truly wanted to shake up Britain so that everybody else got a fair deal.

Look, I would never vote for Corbyn if my life depended on it but something pretty f***ed up is going on. Never bought much into this Deep State nonsense but something is nagging away at me now.

Maybe it is the lockdown getting to me but I am increasingly uncomfortable with what is going on at the moment.

Starmer engineered a situation in which Corbyn was guaranteed to lose the General Election. No ifs or buts. And now gets presented by the likes of the BBC as this sensible hand on the tiller.

Something stinks in British politics at the moment, it really does. Starmer is bought and paid for.

It makes sense to me that politicians towards the outer right (Con) or left (Lab) are less likely to appeal to the middle ground and thus be less electable.

Corbyn, Miliband, Michael Howard, IDS, Hague, John Smith, Kinnock and Foot. There’s a common thread to them; principled politicians who appealed to core party members, but not generally well liked by floating voters.

 


Vive le Roy!

serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 12 May 20 9.46am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Here's a fun fact of the day.

Since WWII three labour leaders have won general elections.

Attlee, Wilson, and Blair.

All 3 were of the moderate left.

All 3 studied at Oxford at some point with Attlee and Blair studying law going on to become barristers.

Starmer is Moderate left and a former barrister who also studied at Oxford.

Jeremy Corbyn dropped out of the North London Polytechnic as he didn't agree with the sylibus.

Really they represent the two seperate sides of the Labour party. The moderates, who work for social justice within the current social economic system. And the extremist, who just bitch and moan about life being unfair and craving a failed system of tryanny, corruption, and repression.


Policies which Corbyn's Labour first proposed:

Green New deal

Renationalise utilities and rail

Free high speed broadband

National Education Service


Rent controls

Increase corporation tax


Now staggeringly, 2 of these are already in place, and it seems highly likely that a couple more are not far off. And remember, we now know that had Party HQ not intervened, we almost certainly would've seen a Labour minority government in 2017.

So which of those policy proposals do you consider 'craving a failed system', and other than those policies, what will Starker offer that is more in line with trying to achieve 'social justice'?

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

cryrst Flag The garden of England 12 May 20 10.21am

Originally posted by serial thriller


Policies which Corbyn's Labour first proposed:

Green New deal

Renationalise utilities and rail

Free high speed broadband

National Education Service


Rent controls

Increase corporation tax


Now staggeringly, 2 of these are already in place, and it seems highly likely that a couple more are not far off. And remember, we now know that had Party HQ not intervened, we almost certainly would've seen a Labour minority government in 2017.

So which of those policy proposals do you consider 'craving a failed system', and other than those policies, what will Starker offer that is more in line with trying to achieve 'social justice'?

Great isnt it. Got your policies in without wholesale socialism. No doubt you will now vote tory.

 

serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 12 May 20 10.52am

Originally posted by cryrst

Great isnt it. Got your policies in without wholesale socialism. No doubt you will now vote tory.

Not until they fly a red flag over Downing street and open it up to house the homeless

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 12 May 20 10.53am

Originally posted by cryrst

Great isnt it. Got your policies in without wholesale socialism. No doubt you will now vote tory.

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 12 May 20 11.05am

Originally posted by serial thriller

Not until they fly a red flag over Downing street and open it up to house the homeless

don't you mean Buckingham Palace?

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 12 May 20 11.54am

Originally posted by ex hibitionist

don't you mean Buckingham Palace?

You still wouldn't and you will get spot on your tongue for lying. Red ones.

 

Matov Flag 12 May 20 2.13pm

Originally posted by ex hibitionist


rubbish: Cameron was more bought and paid for than Starmer - this is bordering on paranoia, he's just smarter than you'd like him to be and Bojo is more stupid than you'd like him to be...

Perhaps it is paranoia but the more I research (and yes I am that sad) the run up to Labour changing their policy on a second referendum the more it stinks. Beyond stinking in fact. Almost beyond comprehension. Utter insanity on their part. Guaranteeing that they lose in one simple policy swap and they knew it. Their own polling experts told them that they simply could not win the seats in England they needed to if they adopted it as a policy. Ian Lavery (ex Labour Chairman) said as much.

And Starmer is always there, always pushing for the change. Speaking at the conference. Going against what had already been agreed as a joint position. Now he would have had access to the polling data and would have been more than aware that a second referendum position would condemn Labour to defeat. Yet still pushes and pushes for this change. Why? Only two options. Extreme stupidity or treachery. No other options offer themselves.


As to Johnson, I don't like the man. I believe him to be as venal and opportunistic as people on the left claim him to be. But this notion that somehow Starmer is this breath of fresh air in the British political scene is beyond laughable. He is as shallow as f***. And is being manipulated from far beyond the Labour Party.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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