You never miss any opportunity to whine on with your anti Brexit waffle.
This thread is about Le Pen.

That's untrue. They are the ones formally proposing the law, but whilst Regulations take effect everywhere, Directives need to be implemented via local enactment. So who initiates the proposals. In most cases they do, in pursuit of the agreed Treaties, but the Parliament also has a role. They can debate and initiate action by the Commission. It's an unwieldy system, but any that tries to merge the interests of sovereign nation states is going to be.

The EU Parliament cannot be directly compared to our, or any other member's Parliament. It serves a different purpose and operates in a different environment. It's very easy to criticise, but it also brings benefits. The Commission is a constant and not subject to wild policy swings every 5 years. It aims to achieve the objectives of the Treaties. Thus, it maintains a steady progress which is often stymied elsewhere. It is overseen by the Council and the Parliament, which has the power to dismiss it, following a vote of no confidence.

You might be reassured by this:-

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I repeat, if you can't vote in or out the people that make the laws that govern you, then you do not live in a democracy. How do elected MEPs implement their policies?

They don't because the EU Parliament isn't a state Parliament. It serves another purpose, as I have already said and posted links about, so you can read for yourself. If that's your expectation, and your reason for a gripe, then you don't understand the system and are bound to be disappointed by it.

Our control over the lawmaking comes differently. We agree Treaties, which set out common aims. We send Ministers to the Council to oversee priorities. We send PMs to the Heads of State meetings. We elect a Parliament which chooses the PM, and they choose the Ministers. It's all more arms length than our local Parliament but with so many other countries involved that's inevitable

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You can waffle as much as you like, but it is clear that if you can't elect the people that make the laws that govern you, then you don't live in a democracy.
How do MEPs and their parties implement their manifestos? What is point of electing them? We largely voted for UKIP and the Brexit Party, how do the arrangements you describe allow them to implement their policies?

Edited by georgenorman (23 Apr 2022 10.10pm)

I've done this as you currently occupy the top 5 or 6 threads as the last post in N&P W12.

Online fighting talk, wassup

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I like peanuts.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

So referendums are not the way to decide of EU membership in the view of some on here.

That is if the result is not what you like.

I have seen no mention on here of the 1975 Labour referendum on membership as being defective because such decisions should be left to Parliament.

I suppose to a high degree it depends on whether you want your elected representatives to do what you want or what their political affiliation and personal ambition directs.

IMHO many of the best MPs on both sides have never taken senior positions in Govt in great part to preserve their ability to vote as their constituents want.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

We live in the UK. That's where our democracy exists. The EU is a union of sovereign states. It isn't, and in my opinion never will be, an organisation which governs directly.

We elect our representatives to the British Parliament. That's the only place where decisions are made that affect us. That they decided to delegate some, with appropriate over-sight, to the EU, was still a democratic decision.

If you want UKIP and/or the Brexit Party to have policies implemented, then you first need to have them win enough seats in the British Parliament. The EU Parliament is part of the over-sight.

As neither party ever won any seats in the British Parliament, your argument is a false one. Cameron only bowed to the threat of that happening to preserve the Tory Party. Securing a few seats in the EU Parliament, via votes cast by committed activists in a very low turn-out, is not the same thing at all. Even if they commanded a majority in the EU Parliament, which they clearly didn't, they would not have been able to "implement a manifesto". All they could do was make a lot of noise.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

So our democracy exists in the UK but not in the EU? So you seem to accept that the EU is not democratic? While we were in the EU, the British parliament was of course not the only place where decisions were made that affect us, laws that affected us were made by unelected EU Commissioners. Even if UKIP or the Brexit party (or any other party for that matter) won every UK seat in the EU ‘parliament’ they would have no way to implement their manifestos as MEPs and their parties have no power to propose law. Yes, as you say, all they could do is ‘make a lot of noise’ – and you seem to think that is somehow democratic!