This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
Visit the current forum | Forum Rules
| Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 11.59am | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
a) Learn some economics I studied economics as part of my Chartered Insurance Institute Qualifications back in the 70's. Mostly a load of old bollocks apart from the simple commonsense rules that you wish to ignore. What would be the point of willy waving, either of us could just make up stuff. For a start you've accepted I have Parkinsons, but you have no way of knowing that I have. Likewise, your claims about a 17 year old daughter. Lets leave it that you don't like me or my ilk - I can live with that. Regards.....
|
|
 Part Time James  27 Jun 16 12.01pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was. I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong. Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation. You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it. I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person. Shame that, you used to amuse us all.
I'll be honest, if I knew that Brexit would de-rail an entertaining HOL poster then I'd have had to think a lot harder. I think the Remain literature missed a trick there.
|
|
| Part Time James 27 Jun 16 12.02pm |
|
|---|---|
|
I have a confession. I am only still contributing to this thread (I use the term loosely) because I wondered whether it would get above 300 pages.
|
|
Kermit8  Hevon 27 Jun 16 12.02pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
But you were complaining about people being hoodwinked in this referendum and how unfair it was. I explained how everyone (including me and Thatcher) were hoodwinked into believing the true purpose of the EEC in 1975, but just as you do when arguing with Matt, you blatantly ignore, twist words or meanings etc... anything to deflect from admitting you are wrong. Telling the Country we were joining a small trading group of likeminded northern european countries rather than the beginnings of a political and economic federal union with the whole of Europe and beyond wasn't a little white lie it was blatant misrepresentation. You only replied now because I made you look a bit silly.. be honest you read my response yesterday and chose to ignore it. I may be an old fool, but in the last 6 months you have become a different person. Shame that, you used to amuse us all.
You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility. 1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect. 2016? We will see if you have again or not. btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it.
Big chest and massive boobs |
|
 Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jun 16 12.14pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility. 1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect. 2016? We will see if you have again or not. btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it. You can't compare 1975 to now in that context.
|
|
| Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 12.14pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility. 1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect. 2016? We will see if you have again or not. btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it. This is playing out exactly like one of your spats with Matt_Himself. For a 10 year old you were pretty clued up to notice Benn and the TUC's warnings..... us 21 year olds at the time weren't privy to such warnings. But as I said in my last post, my original response was made in response to your assertion that some people were hoodwinked and manipulated at this referendum and how unfair it was. I am merely demonstrating the absurdity of your claims or at least highlighting a historic track record. btw I just want the funny fella back with us who shrugged off goading with wit and repartee' not aggression and bizarre behaviour. PS - I can't actually remember which way I voted in 1975 - but I do know there was not a mention of the EEC becoming the EU which might have had an enormous bearing on anyone's decision to vote. As it was the In campaign got a 2 to 1 majority over Out. Edited by Hoof Hearted (27 Jun 2016 12.18pm)
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jun 16 12.15pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
You are revising history to suit Hoof. You weren't hoodwinked. Even I I know back then people like Benn and the TUC were campaigning loudly against voting 'in' for reasons you hold dear today. You chose to ignore them. Blaming others for your own decisions is not taking the required responsibility. 1975 - you voted for what you now think was the wrong choice. Your judgement is, therefore, suspect. 2016? We will see if you have again or not. btw if you don't like someone responding to your goading don't do it. Was there a referendum on joining the Common Market. I think quite a large amount of the leave supporters don't really have an issue with being part of the European trade block and trade agreements, its much more the stitch up of incorporating freedom of movement as a requirement for the EFTA and EEA. Its this single issue, the Freedom of Movement, that is the bugbear of a lot of modern Eurosceptics - and the provision of a cheap migrant work force, that suits governments and businesses, but has had a dramatic impact on the well being and financial stability of the working classes, which have been ignored and shafted by successive governments. Government needs to respond to the needs of communities and society, as its priority, not just the commercial interests. Rather than resolving problems of the working poor, successive governments have ignored them to pursue the interests of the better off, the wealthy and areas of the country with higher employment - whilst draining the poorer European cousins of the best and brightest, to fulfil unskilled and semi-skilled manual labour in the UK. Unsurprisingly, this has been a constant thorn in the Remains side, that it never addressed - That the government had a duty to the people of the UK and it abandoned them.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jun 16 12.19pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Was there a referendum on joining the Common Market. I think quite a large amount of the leave supporters don't really have an issue with being part of the European trade block and trade agreements, its much more the stitch up of incorporating freedom of movement as a requirement for the EFTA and EEA. Its this single issue, the Freedom of Movement, that is the bugbear of a lot of modern Eurosceptics - and the provision of a cheap migrant work force, that suits governments and businesses, but has had a dramatic impact on the well being and financial stability of the working classes, which have been ignored and shafted by successive governments. Government needs to respond to the needs of communities and society, as its priority, not just the commercial interests. Rather than resolving problems of the working poor, successive governments have ignored them to pursue the interests of the better off, the wealthy and areas of the country with higher employment - whilst draining the poorer European cousins of the best and brightest, to fulfil unskilled and semi-skilled manual labour in the UK. Unsurprisingly, this has been a constant thorn in the Remains side, that it never addressed - That the government had a duty to the people of the UK and it abandoned them. That's exactly it. As I have said. We cannot allow Westminster to ignore public opinion and concern as they have done for years. This is why we have UKIP and why we voted to leave.
|
|
| Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 12.29pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
I studied economics as part of my Chartered Insurance Institute Qualifications back in the 70's. Mostly a load of old bollocks apart from the simple commonsense rules that you wish to ignore. What would be the point of willy waving, either of us could just make up stuff. For a start you've accepted I have Parkinsons, but you have no way of knowing that I have. Likewise, your claims about a 17 year old daughter. Lets leave it that you don't like me or my ilk - I can live with that. Regards..... Funnily enough I trust you Hoof. Also - whilst I don't like what you and others like you have done to my children and me - I have no idea if I like you or not. And by the way, I suggest you look at why the supply side hasn't adjusted to increased housing demand. That would be more fruitful than blaming EU migrants who, in general, have been relatively youthful, formed fewer households, used less housing and stayed more in private rented accommodation than the indigenous population (LSE research). Edited by Mapletree (27 Jun 2016 12.30pm)
|
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Jun 16 12.39pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Was there a referendum on joining the Common Market. I think quite a large amount of the leave supporters don't really have an issue with being part of the European trade block and trade agreements, its much more the stitch up of incorporating freedom of movement as a requirement for the EFTA and EEA. Its this single issue, the Freedom of Movement, that is the bugbear of a lot of modern Eurosceptics - and the provision of a cheap migrant work force, that suits governments and businesses, but has had a dramatic impact on the well being and financial stability of the working classes, which have been ignored and shafted by successive governments. Government needs to respond to the needs of communities and society, as its priority, not just the commercial interests. Rather than resolving problems of the working poor, successive governments have ignored them to pursue the interests of the better off, the wealthy and areas of the country with higher employment - whilst draining the poorer European cousins of the best and brightest, to fulfil unskilled and semi-skilled manual labour in the UK. Unsurprisingly, this has been a constant thorn in the Remains side, that it never addressed - That the government had a duty to the people of the UK and it abandoned them. Absolutely. I have said and I'll say again, I am open to the option of free movement of labour with a job offer, if it can address 'the provision of a cheap migrant work force, that (has suited) governments and businesses, but has had a dramatic impact on the well being and financial stability of the working classes.' Office professionals, or to be precise, post-graduates can decide whether they still like free movement if they can't get a foot on the professional ladder due to higher level of competition. They still gain employment somewhere. Housing will still be an issue in the future but they'll have to live with it. The problem will be adminsistrating this and the abuse of the system by fiddling, lying, scummy exploitative employers.
COYP |
|
| Hoof Hearted 27 Jun 16 12.44pm | |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Funnily enough I trust you Hoof. Also - whilst I don't like what you and others like you have done to my children and me - I have no idea if I like you or not. And by the way, I suggest you look at why the supply side hasn't adjusted to increased housing demand. That would be more fruitful than blaming EU migrants who, in general, have been relatively youthful, formed fewer households, used less housing and stayed more in private rented accommodation than the indigenous population (LSE research). Edited by Mapletree (27 Jun 2016 12.30pm) I'll address the last para another day when I have time. In the meantime, chin up, shoulder to the wheel and get behind our new regime regardless of whether you wanted it. These are the new cards we're playing now!
|
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Jun 16 12.44pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Funnily enough I trust you Hoof. Also - whilst I don't like what you and others like you have done to my children and me - I have no idea if I like you or not. And by the way, I suggest you look at why the supply side hasn't adjusted to increased housing demand. That would be more fruitful than blaming EU migrants who, in general, have been relatively youthful, formed fewer households, used less housing and stayed more in private rented accommodation than the indigenous population (LSE research). Edited by Mapletree (27 Jun 2016 12.30pm) Do you honestly believe any govt can build sensible housing for 330,00 net extra people plus indigenous population growth every year for the next xxx years? I am talking about 2 or 3 per house, not 6,7,8,9,10 per house to make working in low pay here in the UK worthwhile. Or do you expect the British working classes to live 8 to a house, 3 or 4 in each bedroom? When the living wage comes into effect in 2020 this will worsen, but if you bury your head in the sand in Truro it might not actually be going on.
COYP |
|
| Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 12.48pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Do you honestly believe any govt can build sensible housing for 330,00 net extra people plus indigenous population growth every year for the next xxx years? I am talking about 2 or 3 per house, not 6,7,8,9,10 per house to make working in low pay here in the UK worthwhile. Or do you expect the British working classes to live 8 to a house, 3 or 4 in each bedroom? When the living wage comes into effect in 2020 this will worsen, but if you bury your head in the sand in Truro it might not actually be going on. Population growth in London? Get used to it, its a fact of life. All the time the job prospects are better here than anywhere else in the UK. Mind you, now would be a great time to buy in Edinburgh.
|
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 Jun 16 12.54pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Population growth in London? Get used to it, its a fact of life. All the time the job prospects are better here than anywhere else in the UK. Mind you, now would be a great time to buy in Edinburgh. Thinking of people other than your own and the sustainability of this ideology in our own society is what you want us to get used to. Did you not see Eddie Izzard make a complete fool of himself?
COYP |
|
| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jun 16 1.09pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Mapletree
Population growth in London? Get used to it, its a fact of life. All the time the job prospects are better here than anywhere else in the UK. Mind you, now would be a great time to buy in Edinburgh. It doesn't have to be. This will be a decision politicians make. We have to make them see that uncontrolled growth in population is not and has never been a viable option. The short term gain of corporations or even the UK economy cannot be allowed to disguise the disaster we are heading for.
|
|
| Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 2.40pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Thinking of people other than your own and the sustainability of this ideology in our own society is what you want us to get used to. Did you not see Eddie Izzard make a complete fool of himself? Huh?
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jun 16 2.50pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Do you honestly believe any govt can build sensible housing for 330,00 net extra people plus indigenous population growth every year for the next xxx years? I am talking about 2 or 3 per house, not 6,7,8,9,10 per house to make working in low pay here in the UK worthwhile. Or do you expect the British working classes to live 8 to a house, 3 or 4 in each bedroom? When the living wage comes into effect in 2020 this will worsen, but if you bury your head in the sand in Truro it might not actually be going on. Arguably, a Exit from the EU, with an end to Freedom of Movement employment, has the potential to deliver a crushing blow to the housing market and prices - Which is why I suspect that the Conservatives and probably Newish Labour will pander to Corporate interests and just import more cheap migrant labour from outside the EU. If we assume that the population rises are around 150,000 from EU migrants, they have to be accommodated, and notably these will be rental properties owned by private landlords. That's going to hit a lot of people, who'll probably need to end up dumping investment property onto the market, increasing the supply, and crashing the price and causing a drop in rental prices. It'll very much depend on how 'brave' the next government are in responding to the leave vote, and how the choose to deal with working migration. I have no problem with working migration, but the sheer volume has been unsustainable since the credit crunch.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Jun 16 3.40pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Arguably, a Exit from the EU, with an end to Freedom of Movement employment, has the potential to deliver a crushing blow to the housing market and prices - Which is why I suspect that the Conservatives and probably Newish Labour will pander to Corporate interests and just import more cheap migrant labour from outside the EU. If we assume that the population rises are around 150,000 from EU migrants, they have to be accommodated, and notably these will be rental properties owned by private landlords. That's going to hit a lot of people, who'll probably need to end up dumping investment property onto the market, increasing the supply, and crashing the price and causing a drop in rental prices. I have no problem with working migration, but the sheer volume has been unsustainable since the credit crunch. There is a housing shortage so surely that is a good thing. I can't see it causing a massive drop in prices in the near future.
|
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jun 16 4.30pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
There is a housing shortage so surely that is a good thing. I can't see it causing a massive drop in prices in the near future. I think its a good thing for people who want to buy, people who rent. However for people who have purchased property as an investment, its going to be a total c**t, as it could quite conceivably result in significant losses on their investment, negative equity and so on. Of course that's the risk of any investment. I think the UK needs to act on this before it becomes even more of a problem for the future, to control rental prices, the cost of housing and discouraging the idea of owning property as an investment (the priority of housing should be for people to live in). I'd happily live with the idea that no one can own more than two properties in the UK, without those properties being capital assets for at least a private limited company and subject to government laws on rent controls. Any such properties must then also be rented out. I also think that ownership of accommodation property in the UK should be restricted to British Citizens only. The idea of the 'property market' undermines a basic need (and I'd say right) to accommodation / shelter. Of course the consequence to the UK of a housing market crash could be very harsh.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2025 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.