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Ireland Vote For Gay Marriage.


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imbored Flag UK 24 May 15 1.21am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 May 2015 1.11am

Quote imbored at 24 May 2015 12.56am


Yes, because it's not like you're bundling all gay people into a category is it. If someone had the nerve to accuse you of providing an insecure and unstable enviromment for your child maybe you would be unhappy about that. Perhaps gay couples feel that way too.

Believe what you like of course. If you view a couples marriage as less equal and less secure and stable on account that the parents are gay that is for you. That is however what inferior means. It's also your choice to say that you personally do not lend validity to the term 'marriage' once people are in fact able to get married. Go for it.


Gay people are in a category by virture of being gay....What I do is recognise that fact. It is you and those who share you view who have decided that this makes no difference in terms of marriage......You have won the day...Fair play, but I don't buy someone telling me a spade is a pick.

Anyone can accuse me of anything they like. I know the truth of my child's environment. You may feel that same sex parents are equal in worth to opposite sex.....And as you say, 'go for it'. However, while I wouldn't rule it out in some circumstances I just don't view it as 'ideal' or equal......Just as one parent families aren't ideal but that often people just don't have a choice.

Only a minority get the 'ideal' in many ways.

My post was more about the marriage question than same sex parents.......That's a tricky subject and one that I have mixed views on.

People prejudiced against gay people are a category too. We're going around in circles.

I have news for you. If your kid is straight he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

I have more news for you. If your kid is gay he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

At no point do your passed on 'words of wisdom' about gay marriage not 'really' being 'marriage', your assumption that such couples are likely to provide an insecure environment, or your feeling that this is the sign of some kind of problem with society help him in any way. They can only aim as to make him prejudiced against people, or to give him a needless and thoughtless inferiority complex about himself. What exactly is the positive outcome? Just because you 'feel' a certain way because that's what you grew up being told, it doesn't mean that it's useful to impart now. Are you even married yourself?

I haven't won anything. Society has. In Castletownroche, a man in his 80s said his YES would probably be his last vote. "I want to leave Ireland better than I found it." A thoughtfulness of young and old alike.

Edited by imbored (24 May 2015 1.45am)

 
PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 24 May 15 1.22am

now we can have dysfunctional gay parents to match all the dysfunctional straight parents of the past.

this referendum now allows gays to be as miserable as straights in marriage. fair enough.

also, anybody advocating violence against gays should get their words tattooed onto their forehead.

 

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
imbored Flag UK 24 May 15 1.24am

Quote PalazioVecchio at 24 May 2015 1.22am

now we can have dysfunctional gay parents to match all the dysfunctional straight parents of the past.

this referendum now allows gays to be as miserable as straights in marriage. fair enough.

also, anybody advocating violence against gays should get their words tattooed onto their forehead.


Exactly, everyone deserves the same chance at misery

 
Stirlingsays Flag 24 May 15 1.57am

Quote imbored at 24 May 2015 1.21am

People prejudiced against gay people are a category too. We're going around in circles.

I have news for you. If your kid is straight he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

I have more news for you. If your kid is gay he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

At no point do your passed on 'words of wisdom' about gay marriage not 'really' being 'marriage', your assumption that such couples are likely to provide an insecure environment, or your feeling that this is the sign of some kind of problem with society help him in any way. They can only aim as to make him prejudiced against people, or to give him a needless and thoughtless inferiority complex about himself. What exactly is the positive outcome? Just because you 'feel' a certain way because that's what you grew up being told, it doesn't mean that it's useful to impart now. Are you even married yourself?

I haven't won anything. Society has. In Castletownroche, a man in his 80s said his YES would probably be his last vote. "I want to leave Ireland better than I found it." A thoughtfulness of young and old alike.

Edited by imbored (24 May 2015 1.45am)

Ah, the sweet perfume of someone who believes.

I'd love to argue the points but I'm noticing that you don't answer points I make...Similar to my posts on the hypocrisy of egalitarianism.....You just avoid the point and go on an emotive narrative of your own.

That's ok, you sincerely believe in equality, I'm happy for your re-shaping of reality.

In the meantime I'm off to bed.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
imbored Flag UK 24 May 15 2.02am

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 May 2015 1.57am

Quote imbored at 24 May 2015 1.21am

People prejudiced against gay people are a category too. We're going around in circles.

I have news for you. If your kid is straight he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

I have more news for you. If your kid is gay he's going to grow up, likely get married, possibly have children and try to make the best of his life.

At no point do your passed on 'words of wisdom' about gay marriage not 'really' being 'marriage', your assumption that such couples are likely to provide an insecure environment, or your feeling that this is the sign of some kind of problem with society help him in any way. They can only aim as to make him prejudiced against people, or to give him a needless and thoughtless inferiority complex about himself. What exactly is the positive outcome? Just because you 'feel' a certain way because that's what you grew up being told, it doesn't mean that it's useful to impart now. Are you even married yourself?

I haven't won anything. Society has. In Castletownroche, a man in his 80s said his YES would probably be his last vote. "I want to leave Ireland better than I found it." A thoughtfulness of young and old alike.

Edited by imbored (24 May 2015 1.45am)

Ah, the sweet perfume of someone who believes.

I'd love to argue the points but I'm noticing that you don't answer points I make...Similar to my posts on the hypocrisy of egalitarianism.....You just avoid the point and go on an emotive narrative of your own.

That's ok, you sincerely believe in equality, I'm happy for your re-shaping of reality.

In the meantime I'm off to bed.

Oh so no answer, you're not even married? If marriage is such a valuable environment for kids why shun it yourself and demote gay peoples marriage's and child rearing in the process.

If marriage is to provide a secure and stable environment for children, how exactly is a child of gay parents more secure and stable without his parents being married than with? You should surely favour it? It's not an argument that makes any sense.

None the less, of course, no-one needs a qualification to become a parent, nor should they need one to get a marriage. From the prejudiced to the gay families, they all get a shot now and that to me is a step forward.

Edited by imbored (24 May 2015 3.22am)

 
Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 24 May 15 2.06am

Well done Ireland!

It's obviously all the straight people's fault anyway. They're the ones who keep having gay children

 

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sprites Flag Auckland 24 May 15 5.46am

Quote imbored at 23 May 2015 11.55pm

Quote sprites at 23 May 2015 11.47pm

Quote imbored at 23 May 2015 11.41pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 23 May 2015 11.26pm

I don't regard all marriages as equal......I can see the sense in the law regarding them that way.....But I don't personally view them that way.

If the majority wish for that to be the case though that's fine and how it should be.

Religious or not the point of marriage in my book is to provide a secure and stable base for children later on.....I know not all people view it like that but to me that's the point.

If older people get married or people who can't have children get married that's fine and dandy and an event worthy of celebration but it doesn't really chime in the same way with me.

Same sex couples now get to describe their unions as 'marriage'. Well, I grew up with that meaning a union between a man and a woman.

Just another example of the gradual creeping feminisation of British and now Irish society in my book.


Feel free to see others as inferior. If your kids wind up being gay be sure to look them in the eye and tell them their their love and that their efforts to raise a family are second rate. There is nothing insecure and unstable about a gay family, unless you make it that way of course, which seems to be your intention. Who cares how it 'chimes' with you.

Just because you would not view your own gay child's wedding ceremony wouldn't be in your eyes a 'marriage', it doesn't mean others aren't happy for them.

Edited by imbored (23 May 2015 11.45pm)

Can't agree with that. There are certain things that a 'mother' and 'father' bring to a child invidivdually...that two of one of the other just cannot give. It's simply not fair on the kid.

Man was made for woman. But in this day and age, that ship has sailed. I now think if you want to be married to someone of the same sex...go for it. But don't involve kids.

Getting my helmet ready...but that's just what i reckon.


Well if someone is gay clearly that particular man is not made for a woman and that woman is not made for a man. Unless you are suggesting that they are mentally ill for being attracted to the same sex.


Edited by imbored (23 May 2015 11.56pm)

Sorry - I'm talking about the initial intention was for man and woman. You're right tho...something had happened and nowadays people are made for same sex if that's how they feel .

 
sprites Flag Auckland 24 May 15 5.49am

The

Quote Mapletree at 23 May 2015 11.53pm

Quote sprites at 23 May 2015 11.47pm

Quote imbored at 23 May 2015 11.41pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 23 May 2015 11.26pm

I don't regard all marriages as equal......I can see the sense in the law regarding them that way.....But I don't personally view them that way.

If the majority wish for that to be the case though that's fine and how it should be.

Religious or not the point of marriage in my book is to provide a secure and stable base for children later on.....I know not all people view it like that but to me that's the point.

If older people get married or people who can't have children get married that's fine and dandy and an event worthy of celebration but it doesn't really chime in the same way with me.

Same sex couples now get to describe their unions as 'marriage'. Well, I grew up with that meaning a union between a man and a woman.

Just another example of the gradual creeping feminisation of British and now Irish society in my book.


Feel free to see others as inferior. If your kids wind up being gay be sure to look them in the eye and tell them their their love and that their efforts to raise a family are second rate. There is nothing insecure and unstable about a gay family, unless you make it that way of course, which seems to be your intention. Who cares how it 'chimes' with you.

Just because you would not view your own gay child's wedding ceremony wouldn't be in your eyes a 'marriage', it doesn't mean others aren't happy for them.

Edited by imbored (23 May 2015 11.45pm)

Can't agree with that. There are certain things that a 'mother' and 'father' bring to a child invidivdually...that two of one of the other just cannot give. It's simply not fair on the kid.

Man was made for woman. But in this day and age, that ship has sailed. I now think if you want to be married to someone of the same sex...go for it. But don't involve kids.

Getting my helmet ready...but that's just what i reckon.



Get off your high horse. How many one parent families are there? And abusive male/female marriages. Anyone with two loving parents is blessed. If marriage is a sign of stability, by heck that is a great thing.

So I'm on a high horse because my opinions/beliefs are different to yours? Cool.

 
Harpo Flag Oxfordshire 24 May 15 7.40am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 23 May 2015 11.05pm

Quote Jamesrichards8 at 23 May 2015 10.30pm

I don't see the logic behind a yes vote in such a strong catholic country, but if that's what everyone wants then why not.

I think a problem is that those who shout the loudest tend to be assumed to be the norm. Most people are fairly reasonable, and understand that this has nothing to do with religion.

The sooner that the Church - any Church - accepts that sexuality is none of their business, the better.

The vote is a very big finger up at the Church. Time up for the traditionalists who cannot bear to be without a hold over their fellow worshipers.

 
Harpo Flag Oxfordshire 24 May 15 7.46am

Quote derben at 23 May 2015 11.43pm

Things would be a lot simpler if marriage did not exist.


And a lot happier if religion didn't exist.

 
derben Flag 24 May 15 9.27am


I missed Gaye Marriage's song last night, was it any good?

 
Hoof Hearted 24 May 15 9.53am

Big deal.......... move on.

Like the Scottish though, Gay people will now find something else to whinge about and cause a fuss.

-.-'

 
Stirlingsays Flag 24 May 15 10.05am

Quote imbored at 24 May 2015 2.02am

Oh so no answer, you're not even married? If marriage is such a valuable environment for kids why shun it yourself and demote gay peoples marriage's and child rearing in the process.

If marriage is to provide a secure and stable environment for children, how exactly is a child of gay parents more secure and stable without his parents being married than with? You should surely favour it? It's not an argument that makes any sense.

None the less, of course, no-one needs a qualification to become a parent, nor should they need one to get a marriage. From the prejudiced to the gay families, they all get a shot now and that to me is a step forward.

Edited by imbored (24 May 2015 3.22am)


Hmmmmm....Like I said....I was fed up of answering you when you don't really address points in posts yourself..Plus I wanted to get to the land of Nod....But it's a fresh morning and I have some spare time so I'll answer you.

Yes, I'm not married and I have a young son....Seeing how you appear to wish to personalise this argument.

Marriage is the 'ideal' situation for children to be raised in but I'm not living the ideal because of several personal circumstances. However the boy has a mother and father.

You see Bored, I'm smart enough to realise that there's a difference between an ideal and what some people are prepared for in life. That's ok, not everyone can live the 'ideal'.

However, marriage is essentially a contract between two people. A contract that is often torn up. It isn't the most important aspect.....That is the commitment between the parties.

Just because that isn't the 'ideal' it does not mean that it isn't the best possible realistic outcome in the circumstances. One that can produce healthy, self assured and happy minds....It just isn't the ideal....This is the reality for many people today.....It doesn't need a series of warm words to make people feel more valued....Though many people are there to provide them...It is what it is and it is reality.

I'd like to address something you implied in an earlier post. You suggested that a gay son of mine would have a complex or sense of inferiority about being gay.

No son of mine will grow up feeling inferior gay or whatever. It's a bit of cheek for you to assume that quite frankly. I reject your suggestion that acknowledgement that there are natural differences between people produces a sense of 'inferiority'. Should a short man feel inferirotity over being born shorter than other men? No, they shouldn't feel inferior over genetics even though it has inevitable consequences. Should I feel 'inferiority about not being able to have children because I recognise the difference between men and women. Is it 'equality' if society sorts that out?

What creates 'inferiority' are sustained value judgements. A well raised individual has self acceptance at the very core of themselves. Another person's value judgement matters little once that is in place.

If a 'gay son' of the future wished to get married they would do so. I don't feel you have really understood what I've been saying but instead you are just running off onto your own narritives over your 'equality' mantra.

The way you view 'equality' and the value judgements you attach to it doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with how you see it.

Though 'progressive' society has now feminised enough to agree with you.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2015 10.08am)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 24 May 15 10.06am

Quote sprites at 23 May 2015 11.47pm

Quote imbored at 23 May 2015 11.41pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 23 May 2015 11.26pm

I don't regard all marriages as equal......I can see the sense in the law regarding them that way.....But I don't personally view them that way.

If the majority wish for that to be the case though that's fine and how it should be.

Religious or not the point of marriage in my book is to provide a secure and stable base for children later on.....I know not all people view it like that but to me that's the point.

If older people get married or people who can't have children get married that's fine and dandy and an event worthy of celebration but it doesn't really chime in the same way with me.

Same sex couples now get to describe their unions as 'marriage'. Well, I grew up with that meaning a union between a man and a woman.

Just another example of the gradual creeping feminisation of British and now Irish society in my book.


Feel free to see others as inferior. If your kids wind up being gay be sure to look them in the eye and tell them their their love and that their efforts to raise a family are second rate. There is nothing insecure and unstable about a gay family, unless you make it that way of course, which seems to be your intention. Who cares how it 'chimes' with you.

Just because you would not view your own gay child's wedding ceremony wouldn't be in your eyes a 'marriage', it doesn't mean others aren't happy for them.

Edited by imbored (23 May 2015 11.45pm)

Can't agree with that. There are certain things that a 'mother' and 'father' bring to a child invidivdually...that two of one of the other just cannot give. It's simply not fair on the kid.

Man was made for woman. But in this day and age, that ship has sailed. I now think if you want to be married to someone of the same sex...go for it. But don't involve kids.

Getting my helmet ready...but that's just what i reckon.


Made by whom?

 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 24 May 15 10.11am

Quote Stirlingsays at 23 May 2015 11.26pm

I don't regard all marriages as equal......I can see the sense in the law regarding them that way.....But I don't personally view them that way.

If the majority wish for that to be the case though that's fine and how it should be.

Religious or not the point of marriage in my book is to provide a secure and stable base for children later on.....I know not all people view it like that but to me that's the point.

If older people get married or people who can't have children get married that's fine and dandy and an event worthy of celebration but it doesn't really chime in the same way with me.

Same sex couples now get to describe their unions as 'marriage'. Well, I grew up with that meaning a union between a man and a woman.

Just another example of the gradual creeping feminisation of British and now Irish society in my book.

I think individual perceptions of difference are perfectly fine, especially when, like yourself, you separate the personal from the idea of a truth for all. All people view things differently and that's fine.

Especially honourable, and respectable, is what you say in the first paragraph; which for me, is something to be respected - the idea that what we personally think and feel, shouldn't necessarily be treated as what is right for everyone.

 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 24 May 15 10.12am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 May 2015 9.53am

Big deal.......... move on.

Like the Scottish though, Gay people will now find something else to whinge about and cause a fuss.

-.-'

Like having the same legal rights as right wing hysterical knicker wetters


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 24 May 15 10.17am

Quote sprites at 23 May 2015 11.47pm
Can't agree with that. There are certain things that a 'mother' and 'father' bring to a child invidivdually...that two of one of the other just cannot give. It's simply not fair on the kid.

Such as?


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
ZIGnZAG Flag Stoke 24 May 15 10.28am

This is amazing.
Some guy (gay) has just said this is a big finger up at the church, what a Muppet. In the eyes of, I think all religions a union should only be made between a man and a woman. It's Adam and eve, not Gary and Steve.
So why, if some of you are saying marriage is not a religious thing, do you feel the need to try and change their beliefs. To try and force your opinions on them, walk into religious buildings with your middle finger held high, asking them to join you in marriage. That's wrong. (point, I am not religious, I think it causes more harm than good. But if you can't respect their views, why the fcuk should they respect yours.)
What's wrong with a civil ceremony. I'm sure that provides a couple with the same legal rights as a married couple, does it not?
As for children... You need only two things to make one, a man, and a woman. Any other way of "creating" people is just a bit wrong.
That's what were here for, that's what we do. We are attracted to the opposite sex, and we reproduce. If we don't do this the human race would / should cease to exist. (without the help of science etc)
That's all just my opinion, like it or not I'm entitled to it, same as anybody else.

What I ask you is this...... A gay man or woman says that instead of being attracted to the opposite sex, they are attracted to the same sex. They cannot help this, and the world and religions should all except this, and even help them celebrate this. It is 2015 of course, times are changing.
So then we have a man or woman who instead of being attracted to another man or woman, is instead attracted to a child. They too would probably argue that they cannot help feeling this way, they were born like this etc.
How long is it before enough paedophiles get together and start petitioning for their rights, times are changing etc, etc.
That's wrong.
Some things shouldn't be changed.
No matter what fricking year we are in.


 
EaglesEaglesEagles Flag 24 May 15 10.37am

I'm not asking for it and I don't want it. I'm just proposing a theory:

Even though a group of incestuous people are in the a tiny minority compared to the gay people, should they not also be allowed to marry? I can't really find a logic against it with the current formation of marriage law although I personally find the idea dreadful.
Is the fact that the group is so tiny a factor?

The same could be asked about polygamous marriage.

 

I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.
Hoof Hearted 24 May 15 10.37am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 24 May 2015 10.12am

Quote Hoof Hearted at 24 May 2015 9.53am

Big deal.......... move on.

Like the Scottish though, Gay people will now find something else to whinge about and cause a fuss.

-.-'

Like having the same legal rights as right wing hysterical knicker wetters



Most people... and I include myself in that couldn't give a toss about what gay people get up to, nor would they be interested whether they want to or are able to get married legally in a church or otherwise.

The amount of bollocks you post about this and other topics indicates that you are the hysterical knicker wetter.

As I said though... this won't be the end of their "demands" FFS.

 
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